what makes a trawler suitable for ocean crossings?

I've seen/read several references that lead me to believe that many (most?) trawlers are considered to be better coastal short-ish range cruisers and not suitable for crossing oceans.

Rather than ask for a list of examples of boats that could be considered ocean crossers....I think it might be better to ask which features would point to a boat being suitable...or not.
Is it purely just the size of the fuel tank?

As a point of reference, I'm just a dreamer....and I'm thinking primarily coastal cruising east coast of US, probably the Bahamas/Caribbean.... maybe a bit of the great lakes sort of thing, I don't know.....but at some point we'd love the idea of crossing over to Europe and spending lots of time there....and eventually back.... I'm not taking about regular frequent crossings or fast paced circumnavigating.....

I'm still at the stage of just wondering...sailing vessels vs motoring, what sorts of things might we end up wanting to do...but as I dream and imagine I'd like to keep in mind the things we would need in terms of something capable of crossing to Europe.

Tankage is a big part of the equation, add to that displacement (the heavier the boat is, the more "sea kindly" it will be. Also a high foredeck doesn't hurt either.

Storm shields!!
Very high bow and freeboard.
More fuel tankage than you need by 25%.
SSB radio.
Enough crew to stand watch 24/7 for several days.
Some method of stabilize the boat in high seas.
Lots of spares and tools.
2 times the stores you think you need. ( food and water )
Make sure every crew man/woman has run 48 hours min. far offshore.
Emergency life raft with survival kit.

You can always put the boat on a freighter to get her across. Depending on what you'd need to do to upgrade your boat and yourself for the crossing it could be cheaper or not much more money. That takes away some of the romance and adventure of it for sure though.

fgarriso said:

Storm shields!!
Very high bow and freeboard.
More fuel tankage than you need by 25%.
SSB radio.
Enough crew to stand watch 24/7 for several days.
Some method of stabilize the boat in high seas.
Lots of spares and tools.
2 times the stores you think you need. ( food and water )
Make sure every crew man/woman has run 48 hours min. far offshore.
Emergency life raft with survival kit.

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Engine room air intake high on the boat to prevent water intrusion.
Backup steering gear/rebuild

Stability in heavy seas is critically important. All boats are self righting at least up to some limit. After that limit, the boat will roll with disastrous consequences. That limit, called the angle of vanishing stability (or AVS) varies widely based on design factors. Since the risk of getting caught in high seas is greater when crossing an ocean than when making a coastal hop, a high AVS is much more important if crossing an ocean.

The ability to shed water quickly is also important. During a particularly heavy storm years (and a prior boat -- typical battlewagon sportfisher) ago, following seas repeated broke into the cockpit and filled it 2 feet deep with water. We had the tuna doors open just to allow the water to pour out quickly and (thanks to the self-bailing design) without a drop ending up in the bilge.

A great read is Beebe's "Voyaging Under Power". It is about this very question and answers virtually all of them.. The more recent editions are Nordhavn edited, but still very good.

fgarriso said:

More fuel tankage than you need by 25%.

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well I guess that's a question..... what's the typical planning distance between fueling stops to get to/from Europe from the US?

MYTraveler said:

Stability in heavy seas is critically important. All boats are self righting at least up to some limit. After that limit, the boat will roll with disastrous consequences. That limit, called the angle of vanishing stability (or AVS) varies widely based on design factors. Since the risk of getting caught in high seas is greater when crossing an ocean than when making a coastal hop, a high AVS is much more important if crossing an ocean.

The ability to shed water quickly is also important. During a particularly heavy storm years (and a prior boat -- typical battlewagon sportfisher) ago, following seas repeated broke into the cockpit and filled it 2 feet deep with water. We had the tuna doors open just to allow the water to pour out quickly and (thanks to the self-bailing design) without a drop ending up in the bilge.

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This is a great point, and why George Buehler designed his Diesel Ducks with open decks like a sailboat IIRC.

My boat has a cockpit with small drains and I always worry about it getting pooped if in a big breaking following sea. It also has a small door out to the swim platform so maybe if caught in that situation I should just leave the door open?

I would say that the best person to answer your question based on experience and not on imagination is Richard.
Hopefully he will chime in.

L

skyhawk said:

well I guess that's a question..... what's the typical planning distance between fueling stops to get to/from Europe from the US?

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2900 NM

You may stop over at Bermuda and/or Azores for fuel stops, but plan on being able to go the full stretch if need be.

skyhawk said:

well I guess that's a question..... what's the typical planning distance between fueling stops to get to/from Europe from the US?

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Written for sail but most of the criteria for route planning are similar to power boats: efficient routes with respect to seasonal weather patterns, trade winds, currents, departure points and destinations.

A helipad generally makes a boat suitable for ocean crossing.

Benthic2 said:

A helipad generally makes a boat suitable for ocean crossing.

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I'm a private pilot who's always wished I could afford to fly helicopters, that's an idea I can appreciate.

Leaving the stern gate open is something I would do if necessary except in following seas.
I have seen videos of sports fishermen back down, stern gate closed and still the water all but flooded the cockpit.
Back to common sense.

I concur with new member "Slice". Unless one is contemplating a need or desire to frequentlymake ocean crossings and/or has a very large budget for a large boat suitable to the task it will almost certainly be a better option to ship the boat and only purchase the boat you need for your primary cruising purposes.

In addition to the economic consideration if you factor in safety and value of your time shipping can be very attractive. Thousands of miles on open ocean is going to cost a lot of money, cause a lot of wear and tear and also put one at high risk of hitting unfavorable weather.

20 years ago I had a captain deliver my Hatteras 58 from San Diego to Florida and I wish I had just shipped it. If I were today wanting to get my Hatteras 48LRC to Florida there is no doubt I would ship it. Shipping cost is about $30K which is not cheap but if you really factor in all the costs of going on it's own bottom I don't think it is that much more expensive.

As pointed out perhaps if you are looking for adventure and have months to make the trip then maybe if you are an experienced captain with a VERY seaworthy boat you might want to take it yourself. But this is NOT close to the task of crossing an ocean, that is just a whole other league.

Shipped my boat from China to California on a ship. Didn't have the crew, knowledge for navigating in the open sea nor the mechanical knowledge, sufficient familiarity with the boat, nor the desire to bounce across the wide Pacific Ocean or the confidence that a 35-foot boat was up to it; also the boat didn't have the range.

A lot of good points in this thread. I'll add my wish list. All deck hatches should be watertight. Doors at deck level at least heavy duty weather tight if not water tight. I've too often been in boarding seas with water 2 to 3 ft deep on deck. That was coastal transits. Water tight bulkheads below the main deck in order to better control flooding. Major dewatering capability. Serious fire suppression.

I know many if not most recreational boats making blue water passages are not set up that way. But it's what I'd want to feel safe.

OldDan1943 said:

Leaving the stern gate open is something I would do if necessary except in following seas.

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The transom doors, if closed, will keep seas out, unless they are big enough to get in anyway, in which case the closed doors will trap a lot of water in the cockpit. IME, once the seas are breaking into the cockpit, its time to keep the doors open to drain the cockpit.

Fuel capacity
Water maker
Food storage capacity
Satellite communications
Redundant propulsion systems (twin engines for me)
Water shedding capacity
High bow
Redundant steering system and autopilot
Redundant electronics
Crew of 3 minimum

Ted

MYTraveler said:

The transom doors, if closed, will keep seas out, unless they are big enough to get in anyway, in which case the closed doors will trap a lot of water in the cockpit. IME, once the seas are breaking into the cockpit, its time to keep the doors open to drain the cockpit.

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Like most people on here, I want nothing to do with big seas and heavy wind and plan my routes based on weather and stay put when I need to. With that said, if I did get caught out and taking them into the cockpit as you described, I was also planning on opening up the two aft side boarding doors in case the aft cockpit scuppers couldn’t keep up.

Range, basic sea keeping design, capacity for adequate stores, spares, and provisions, and many believe some form of backup propulsion.

From there, you get to seamanship skills, experience, and risk appetite. If you are low on any or all of these, you will be most comfortable with buying insurance with a Nordhavn or similar.

Peter

A dead sure giveaway if a craft is suitable for ocean duty is the nematic. K.K, Selene, Nordhavn are a few examples

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

A dead sure giveaway if a craft is suitable for ocean duty is the nematic.

pete

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I am sure I am not the only one who has no idea what nematic means in this context, but I for one would appreciate an explanation.

"My boat has a cockpit with small drains and I always worry about it getting pooped if in a big breaking following sea. It also has a small door out to the swim platform so maybe if caught in that situation I should just leave the door open?"

The international fish boat folks have construction guides., mostly for 3rd world folks.

I believe they list cockpit drain times .

Plug up the scuppers put a hose in till water runs out over the side and unplug the drains and time the drain time.

This is a very radical test as wave action will probably shake much of the water out.

The AT's swim platform door is about 3 inches shy of bottom and the door is 24 inches wide. That is one fine scupper. There is an adapter that slide in place to reduce the outflow, if one wants.

OldDan1943 said:

The AT's swim platform door is about 3 inches shy of bottom and the door is 24 inches wide. That is one fine scupper. There is an adapter that slide in place to reduce the outflow, if one wants.

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Question Dan - what is the tankage on the AT34? Those are such great boats. Really tick a lot of boxes. No surprise they're so coveted.

Peter

mvweebles said:

Question Dan - what is the tankage on the AT34? Those are such great boats. Really tick a lot of boxes. No surprise they're so coveted.

Peter

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For my AT34/36

Fuel: 400 gal Good enough for coast cruising.... approx 1.4gph at 7.4knts, 1200rpm
Water: 150 gal
I have over come the water shortage by installing a 12 vt water maker.
I did install a fuel polisher too.

The only other 'situation' is the limited hanging clothes space. Worked fine for me until my sweet beautiful Vietnamese lady moved on board. LOL

I did a an aocean crossing with only one crew long time ago with Balder IV , my beloved ketch Fisher 37. 12 days from Capo Verde to Barbados and further, French islands and others, Venez. I was slim and young...
Now I bought and customized my trawler Balder VIII to be able to do the same passage and be back to Europe later....
But, as very well explained by the contributors of this thread, I should be obliged to consider two other crew aboard ( for safety and insurance), buy a lot of spare parts et learn how install some crucial items like hydraulic pumps etc..underway.
I am pretty sure my North Sea Trawler 57' is a true passagemaker with 8500 Liters of diesel, an emergency propulsion, hydraulic stabs and paravanes and more or less all system in double, very strong steel hull with a bulb.
BUT, not considering romance or dreams, will this passage be a good moment?
I wanted, no engine noise in the wheel house and absolutely no vibrations underway. This is 100% ok.I should be happy and ready to cross! So what? May be I am afraid to be boring and not able to accept "foreigners", a crew aboard...Normally, we are only two with a Dockmate remote control to enter marinas. Two should be ok, but at night now, I do not stay awake for long moments...
As well, considering insurance cost, crew, diesel, and all the extras fees, I a am not sure Dock Wise Transport from Palma de Majorca to Fort de France ou Fort Lauderdale will be more expansive if I am ready to ship at the best moment.
What I definitely like with a passagemaker is the confidence you should have in the boat. I was in Tunisia in Marina Yasmine Hammamet during the Arab spring, their révolution. I decided to leave very quickly the country considering a risk of lack of security. This was in winter and Med in winter can be very rough. Many yachts and powerboats wintering here were not technically ready to throw the ropes...I left with my trawler, this was a semi displacment,fiberglass hull, twin engines and walkarounds design... I was not so confident. Of course, I ran at 18 knts to Lampedusa ( an horror) and further Malta, God thanks.
I should have felt more comfortable,safe and free with my new trawler,a true ocean passagemaker.

Balder8 brings up a good point: Even if you have the boat CREW is equally important. I have run multiple times from San Diego to San Francisco and back. It is about 70 hours and 500 nautical miles non-stop with safe harbors within a few hours during most of the trip. I have done this with 3 people and that was pretty exhausting. I don't really like having only 1 person at the helm with no one else on watch. Four is a nice number to make it enjoyable as usually at any point there will be 2 who are not tired and can pilot and be on watch.
Now compare this to 2-2.5k miles on the open ocean and now I think a crew of 4 would be the absolute minimum for safety and comfort but 6 seems much preferable to me. You have to plan contingencies (someone gets sick or hurt) so you don't do this with only 1 or 2 crew. It is not easy to find experienced and competent people to make a 3 day trip and it must be VERY challenging to find the same for an ocean passage. And of course these same competent people have to have a lot of free time and oh by the way they need to be people you can tolerate and trust with your life for an ocean crossing.

So all of this to say that ocean crossing is probably not in the cards for a lot of people. The brokers will tell you that very few of the folks who purchase Nords or similar actually end up taking them across oceans. I don't have any problem with that as many buy them because the appreciate the quality and safety and can afford to pay for something that they might likely never really need. It is good insurance if you can afford it. If I had the funds I probably would be as well. I bought an older Hatteras LRC that is more than capable of completing the trips up and down the Pacific Coast and points south. I believe it is "capable" of going to Hawaii but I don't think I would ever attempt that. I have been in really rough seas and like to know that within less than a day I can be in a marina if the going gets rough.

Kind of like the saying we had as a general aviation pilot, "better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than to be flying and wishing you were on the ground".