Rails 'round the engine

I want to add some SS railings around the engine. Without them I find myself steadying myself by grabbing or touching things I shouldn't - especially when underway.

I expect pretty much any fabricator can do this, right? Any recommendations in the Baltimore/Annapolis area?

..or any better ideas?

Mainly depends where you plan to fasten them down.

Diameter of pipe, 3/4?
Build it out of galvanized pipe first to see if you like the idea and you can make any modifications.
Consider mounting a vise on a plate that traverses port/stbd
Will you need 4 or 6 legs. Number and placement of the legs are important. You do not want to interfere with access to the parts of the engine.
Do you want it permanent or removable. Secure it to the stringers if possible.
After it is all finished, paint it gray/grey. You might like the color and reduced cost. If you still want stainless, take it to a shop and say, "make one just like this one out of marine grade stainless."

I had a local shop weld a custom one that I provided drawings for. Had "feet" mounted to stringers with thru bolt holes, so rails easily removed for service. Made from 316, non polished, so no need for high dollar marine fabricator. Not a show piece, but affordable, useful, and fine for my old boat. I'll see if I still have his info. He also did ER ladders and some other goodies.

danderer said:

I want to add some SS railings around the engine. Without them I find myself steadying myself by grabbing or touching things I shouldn't - especially when underway.

I expect pretty much any fabricator can do this, right? Any recommendations in the Baltimore/Annapolis area?

..or any better ideas?

Click to expand...

Stick welders are dirt cheap
Tig welders are not much more

I say this because for me, the most difficult part in getting work done is for someone to take on a small job without bending you over

Simi 60 said:

Stick welders are dirt cheap
Tig welders are not much more

I say this because for me, the most difficult part in getting work done is for someone to take on a small job without bending you over

Click to expand...

and threaded galvanized pipe is even less expensive.

Could probably use stainless bimini and stanchion fittings to assemble something that can come apart for access.

OldDan1943 said:

and threaded pipe is even less expensive.

Click to expand...

Yep
Even found S/S threaded elbows online but then you'd need actual s/s pipe which would up the price

For other jobs I have been looking at fiberglass tube and elbows as an alternative
Considering this route for engine to water lift muffler as our S/S variant has a pinhole that I have been chasing for a while.

Before I put a baracade around an engine in a K.K. I would do two things. The first being adding a gyro stabilizer or a "flopper stopper" depending on your budget.

Next I would consider adding nice grab handles to the ceiling every couple feet or at convenient locations. All I can see coming from caging in your engine is frustration at no longer having good access.

pete

^^^^^^ $20+ k vs $1500

A rail is simply that, a rail, not a cage.

Jeff Carter. Carter fabrications Millersville md.

(410) 987-9397

build it out of pvc pipe first.

jhall767 said:

Jeff Carter. Carter fabrications Millersville md.

(410) 987-9397

build it out of pvc pipe first.

Click to expand...

Jhall, perfect suggestion!!!

I've got good access to stringers and the engine bed for mounting.

I really like the PVC-prototype idea.

Like THIS!

Nothing wrong with galvanized pipe found everywhere. Add some paint if you want it to look pretty. Paint them engine color and everyone will think they are original. A cross brace would make them stronger if space allows.
You don't want to impede access.
As psneeld said how you fasten it down is important.

slow:
What is that beast we are looking at?

bayview said:

slow:
What is that beast we are looking at?

Click to expand...

Gardner 8LXB coupled to a Hundestat 36" variable pitch 3 bladed propeller

Here is what I am envisioning:

We use this stuff
https://www.mcmaster.com/structural-framing/aluminum-slip-on-framing-and-fittings/
for all sorts of things on the boat -- rails around engine, dinghy flag pole, workbench in engine room, shower curtain rods strong enough to be grabbed, storage racks, swim platform ladder. It's not quite as elegant as a welded stainless one piece rail, but in the engine room, so what? You can get it in aluminum or galvanized. If you want it easy to take apart, you can substitute wing screws for the allen heads it comes with.


Incidentally, For those who who don't know McMaster Carr (the site linked above), you should. Their paper catalog runs 4,000 pages of fine print, but I never use it because the web site is very good. They stock 40,000 different fastenings (among perhaps 400,000 other things) and sell them in convenient packages that come out around $5-15. so you don't have to buy 100 when you need five. They ship same day up for orders placed up to about 6:30PM. Over the years, I've ordered over 4,000 line items and they've made only two mistakes. They are often not the low price vendor (although their shipping charges are very low), but they are so very convenient they are by far my most important vendor.


Jim

Sure would be nice if they were easily removable for engine maintenance. Perhaps top rail could slide into bottom rail.

I've had rails made by the local boat T-top shop. Used aluminum, most of it came out of his drop pile. Cost was very reasonable and welds were beautiful.

I too used PVC mockup. Carried it over to the shop and said "make this". Two days later picked it up and fit perfect.

Consider using Al vs SS.

danderer said:

Here is what I am envisioning:

Click to expand...

The ones I recall seeing are somewhat similar. Vertical sections are bolted to stringers/sole with brackets like many lifeline stanchion bases. No middle horizontal that might interfere with maintenance. The top horizontals are higher than the engine with cross braces (preferably removable) to the railing on the opposite side of the engine. The result is a pretty stable cage you can lean on. I also recall versions that would require you to remove the whole thing to remove the belt guard and maybe valve adjustments. So a mock-up is a good idea. Your boat is like new pristine. I can’t imagine using anything other than polished stainless.

Another option would be large “H” shaped railings on either side that bolt to stringers/sole and to the overhead (if not removable directly above.) I’d think that would be fairly stable as well and maybe fewer engine access concerns.

Greetings,
Mr. d. ONE thing I might mention is insulation of said rails. Depending on the ventilation of your ER space, any metal railings may get quite hot. If doing a repair/adjustment while underway while in a "frisky" seaway the last thing you want is to try to find a cooler section of rail to hold on to. Perhaps a plastic/rubber/fabric coating of some sort?

Porgy said:

The ones I recall seeing are somewhat similar. Vertical sections are bolted to stringers/sole with brackets like many lifeline stanchion bases. No middle horizontal that might interfere with maintenance. The top horizontals are higher than the engine with cross braces (preferably removable) to the railing on the opposite side of the engine. The result is a pretty stable cage you can lean on. I also recall versions that would require you to remove the whole thing to remove the belt guard and maybe valve adjustments. So a mock-up is a good idea. Your boat is like new pristine. I can’t imagine using anything other than polished stainless.

Another option would be large “H” shaped railings on either side that bolt to stringers/sole and to the overhead (if not removable directly above.) I’d think that would be fairly stable as well and maybe fewer engine access concerns.

Click to expand...

Stainless are nice, but I have seen a few made of brass and polished to a high shine.
RTF, no, they don't get too hot to hang on to, cause they are not directly in contact with the engine, so can only get as warm as the ambient temp in the ER.

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks all!

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. d. ONE thing I might mention is insulation of said rails. Depending on the ventilation of your ER space, any metal railings may get quite hot. If doing a repair/adjustment while underway while in a "frisky" seaway the last thing you want is to try to find a cooler section of rail to hold on to. Perhaps a plastic/rubber/fabric coating of some sort?

Click to expand...

Never seen more than 38c /100f in our ER which is about the same temp as raw water out, warm but far from hot.

I think if the rails are hot enough to burn hands you have other things to worry about down there.

Railings

danderer said:

I want to add some SS railings around the engine. Without them I find myself steadying myself by grabbing or touching things I shouldn't - especially when underway.

I expect pretty much any fabricator can do this, right? Any recommendations in the Baltimore/Annapolis area?

..or any better ideas?

Click to expand...

My Defever 49 has handholds along the centerline of the entire engine room bolted on the ceiling. Very safe to hang on for stability. Does not take space either.

Here is a rough rendering of the rails I designed and we have just fabricated and installed around our Gardner 6LXB in our new all aluminium 24m XPM78-01 Möbius.

Very simple construction out of thick wall 40mm AL pipe with 20mm thick AL plates on the bottom that bolt directly to the AL motor mount brackets that we also fabricated out of 20mm AL plate. These rails serve additional important roles in addition to the stated human safety when in the ER as they are the attachment points for the four SS support arms for the overhead dry stack portion of our Halyard wet exhaust system and will also have a clear plexiglass panel that snaps in on top to give me a nice flat surface for tools and parts when I'm doing maintenance in the ER at anchor.

For those interested you will find more details and photos on our Mobius.World blog such as this post about installing these rails https://mobius.world/mr-gee-is-cagey-exhausting-progress-update-xpm78-01-mbius-jan-11-15-2021/