The Great loop

Hi folks,
We are a married couple of two experienced sailors wishing to plan a trip around the Great Loop.
We would like to charter/rent a 6 person size trawler to undertake this journey.
We have 30,000 plus ocean sailing miles behind us and are looking for doing something a little more sedate than long ocean passages.We would like to begin and finish down south .
Our available time is a least a year.
We are boat owners for almost 20 years and take good care of what we use.
Would love to hear from anyone in the community who has first hand experience of how we might secure a suitable craft to undertake the above .
Regards
Macrory

I suspect that might be a challenge.....


First, if a person had a nice boat that you might be happy with, I'd be surprised that they would rent it out for a Loop trip. If they didn't like it, they would likely sell it.


There are a few places that do rent trawlers, but for short periods and the price for a loop trip would be quite high. Southseas rents for up to three weeks, and even at that rate if they rented for 8 months for their cheapest one would be $50K and that's a 32ft boat. Nicer ones are double that. Even at half rate that's expensive.


I could argue to just buy a very popular, easy to buy/sell trawler equipped pretty much the way you want it and sell when done. But that has a few risks, too... if you add a bunch of stuff, pay too much to try to get too much on selling could cost you.


BUT, there just might be someone that's taking a long trip away from their boat that might work a deal that would work for both of you. Good luck.

I wonder how insurance on an arrangement like this would work? Commercial insurance on a boat is prohibitively expensive.

As Seevee states, finding a willing owner with a decent boat may be difficult. Getting past the partnership issues of managing wear/tear, repairs, upgrades, depreciation, damages, etc. would be a further complication.

A cleaner and likely less expensive approach would be to buy a boat - many suitable examples listed for under $100k, then sell it at a firesale price of, say, $80k. You're out $20k-$25k, but less of a haircut than rental.

Here's an example of a decent boat. Not even sure it's priced right.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/monk-36-trawler-3738514/

Peter

Welcome,

From what I have read, most folks take 6 months - 2 years to complete the great loop. I would be very surprise if you find a boat to rent/charter for this period of time. A lot of people share the dream of wanting to do the loop.

Sometimes the best value in boating is an older boat that someone else has already done a refit on. Boats for the loop are no exception.

Often folks refit boats for the loop, only to not undertake the journey or sell their boats shortly after the journey in complete.

Jim

That is an awesome plan. You say 6 person size ? Is that a 3 cabin layout fulltime ?
If so, that is a significant size boat, 50+ feet.
Join the Americas Great Loop Cruisers Association (AGLCA) and let the learning begin. Most looper boats are between 35' - 45'.
As discussed, It may be easier to purchase a trawler and keep it local for a month or so to perform shake down cruises and see what you need for spare parts and features. At the end you can sell it.
The 1980-90's vintage Defever 50 would fit your needs nicely. Lehmans are efficient and trouble free. The boat has a 3 cabin layout on multiple decks and can be found on YW $150K-300K.

MacRory said:

Hi folks,
We are a married couple of two experienced sailors wishing to plan a trip around the Great Loop.
We would like to charter/rent a 6 person size trawler to undertake this journey.
We have 30,000 plus ocean sailing miles behind us and are looking for doing something a little more sedate than long ocean passages.We would like to begin and finish down south .
Our available time is a least a year.
We are boat owners for almost 20 years and take good care of what we use.
Would love to hear from anyone in the community who has first hand experience of how we might secure a suitable craft to undertake the above .
Regards
Macrory

Click to expand...

Do you currently have a boat?

For 12 months I'll be glad to provide you a suitable boat for only $500,000 plus you pay for all maintenance during that time. I'm being facetious but that's what a real charter rate would be on such a boat.

Your 6 person size also pushes it toward the larger end in terms of size of loop boats. We looped in a 3 cabin boat, a 65' Sunseeker Manhattan, but most go in 40' or so boats and even most 50's don't have that space. If you're talking six people for the entire or most of the route then you'll need size. If it's occasional guests then you may want to consider land lodging for the last two.

Many people have purchased, used for one loop, and then sold loop boats. It actually works pretty well as there are other loop boaters waiting and when you've proved it works, it's marketable. Our former loop boat made a repeat loop run the year after we sold it. That's really the route I'd recommend. You may even find a boat that recently did the loop. Size is just something you need to think about and how many passengers and overnight guests you need to accommodate.

My conversations with the six people aboard full time would start with:

1. Is the plan to do mostly marina hopping or anchor out.

2. Private quarters or commune style sleeping arrangements.

3. Head requirements.

4. Tankage (you’ll need big water & waste tankage for anchoring out without regular marina visits). You only be able to do off-shore dumps on the first third of the loop.

5. Storage capacity.

You may learn that the size boat is equally mandated by your cruising plan as with the number of persons aboard. A plan to marina hop using marina facilities for showers, laundry, water & pump-out would ease the requirements of the boat chosen. Persons may be more accepting of limited accommodations & conveniences if they knew that marina facilities were part of the cruising plan.

What you save by choosing the anchoring out option, you may need to spend for a larger boat with better tankage and accommodations.

Doubt you will be able to rent, especially in the current economy. There are a few brokers who have made a good business of flipping Loop boats. I've heard numbers like 6 loops of the same boat with different owners each time. Might be worth giving these people a call about "Loop Boats".

Curtis Stokes and Associates Yachts for Sale | Charter

Ted

Thanks all who have replied .That is exactly why we joined the forum .We get to hear from folks who have their own experiences and can understand the issues.
Our take away from the contributions is as follows :
1) Rental is likely too expensive .
2) Legalities could be troublesome especially if and when things go wrong i.e a mechanical failure or a collision .
3) Insurance may prove to be difficult.
4) 6 persons wasn't meant to mean singles - 3 doubles i.e. sleeping cabins was the thinking
5)Buy a boat ,use it and sell it- take the hit on depreciation and move on .
6) There may be "looper" boats from the previous year wanting to be sold on - a good place to look might be brokers who know this type of market .
Thank you all for your thoughts and very helpful comments .
Regards,
Macrory

Sounds like you have a good start. Good luck and keep us posted on the journey.

Combine cash, buy a boat do the Loop and sell when you are done.

OR

One of you buy the boat, set up a LLC, rent it to yourself and the others.

Decide at the end of the Loop what you want to do with the boat.

pete

One of the newer strategies I saw at the fall Loop Rendezvous was finance instead of buying. The fall Rendezvous at Joe Wheeler state park, has probably 40%+ future loopers looking at boats that were Looping that year. In addition to brokers being there, there were a couple of finance companies. The idea is to buy a loop boat, put a downpayment on it and finance the rest. In essence, the loan payments are basically rent, and you sell it when you're done.

While I don't finance toys, if you have no intention of keeping the boat more than a year, it's an interesting concept. I'm sure the brokers at Curtis Stokes could point you toward the finance companies to get the details.

Ted

Another thought....


With 6 people one would have some challenges. Even if you have extensively boated together on several overnight trips, I'd bet that with 6 people different idea will come up a LOT. Some will say let's go and some will say let's stay another night. And I'd bet that tempers will rise also.



My goal for traveling over the years is a max of four.... and even then after a few weeks it gets challenging. With six, you don't double the issues, you triple them.



I could argue that if you all got separate boats, you'd have a MUCH better time. Travel as a group.... spend some time together, and then spend some time by yourself and regroup later.


Heck, some folks had trouble with ONE on board......

Seevee said:

Another thought....


With 6 people one would have some challenges. Even if you have extensively boated together on several overnight trips, I'd bet that with 6 people different idea will come up a LOT. Some will say let's go and some will say let's stay another night. And I'd bet that tempers will rise also.



My goal for traveling over the years is a max of four.... and even then after a few weeks it gets challenging. With six, you don't double the issues, you triple them.



I could argue that if you all got separate boats, you'd have a MUCH better time. Travel as a group.... spend some time together, and then spend some time by yourself and regroup later.


Heck, some folks had trouble with ONE on board......

Click to expand...

From the late George Buhler:

Drinks for 6
Dinner for 4
Sleeps 2

Ted

O C Diver said:

From the late George Buhler:

Drinks for 6
Dinner for 4
Sleeps 2

Ted

Click to expand...

Ha, close to what we say. Entertain 12, dinner for 6-8, sleeps 4 (unless close friends or family, then possibly 6)

FoxtrotCharlie said:

Ha, close to what we say. Entertain 12, dinner for 6-8, sleeps 4 (unless close friends or family, then possibly 6)

Click to expand...

Wifey B: For six, depends on how close they are, but one thing I find important is to select stops and destinations in advance so everyone has agreed where you're going or is at least informed.

Captain John has advertised that he rents boats specifically for the loop. However, I suspect he does not have any 6 passenger boats for rent/charter. I believe that this is geared mostly to the dreamer who thinks that you have to blow the whole life savings to do this for a year and he is offering boats at a reasonable price that can make the trip.

I'm not advocating for this means of doing the trip. Just an FYI that someone is indeed doing this and it can be done.



https://captainjohn.org/

Kaz said:

Captain John has advertised that he rents boats specifically for the loop. However, I suspect he does not have any 6 passenger boats for rent/charter. I believe that this is geared mostly to the dreamer who thinks that you have to blow the whole life savings to do this for a year and he is offering boats at a reasonable price that can make the trip.

I'm not advocating for this means of doing the trip. Just an FYI that someone is indeed doing this and it can be done.



https://captainjohn.org/

Click to expand...

I had no idea he was renting boats now. Can you please link to the page of those rentals?

Loop Boat

If you currently have a sailboat, why not just take the mast down and store it and take your own boat? While The Loop generally belongs to trawlers, there are quite a few people who do it on sailboats. Many of them just mount the mast on the deck so that they can step it when they get to the Gulf and sail from there to NY.

In my opinion some of the other replies are right on target -- if you're more than two, it takes some pretty rare chemistry for four or six to work well. We did get lucky once on a week-long charter in the San Juans with three couples, but it takes good chemistry. I'm a manager of about 130 people in my work life so I'm very happy to take a break and be deferential to the most skilled guy on board (which usually isn't me for bigger sailboats especially). If you find boating companions who mesh well, that's great, but I'd do weekender try-out runs with them first if you can.

(AlaskaProf and I have been friends since the last Ice Age in grad school, but we've never sailed or motored together (yet). I've promised him that if we ever do a leg to Alaska with him, if we're insufferable he can throw us overboard and we'll swim to shore, no offense taken. He's an easygoing guy though, I'm sure he won't mind if we show up dockside with large, hard-shelled suitcases and take half-hour showers and constantly complain about the rain.)

Absolutely agree with the difficulty of more than 2 going up exponentially. We have cruised with other boats and even with yoyr own space just coordinating becomes a big deal. Things like what time you get up, go to bed, meals, length of days, etc become REAL issues after weeks or months.
Don't get me wrong we enjoy cruising with others / other boats but would NEVER consider it for an extended time. Week or two OK with the right people.

What the others have said with one additional comment.

WAY more fun to have those six people divided up amongst three boats. A suitable boat for six people would probably have to be in the neighborhood of 55 feet. Very expensive to buy probably impossible to rent or lease. Three thirty-six footers can be had for around $40,000 -$50,000 each. A 55 footer will be way over $150,000 if your want reliability.

pete

I recently read the blog of a pair of couples who did the loop together on one boat (so four people). They were long time friends who had boated together in the past on their separate boats. It's been a while since I read it, but I think they bought the boat specifically for the dual-couple loop trip. They sold it at the end of their loop (as per plan). I want to say it was 50+', a fast-ish cruiser.

As far as I could tell they had a great time, beginning to end, and are still friends. Figured you might be interested since, as was mentioned above in the thread, it's pretty unusual to have more than one couple do the loop together on the same boat. This link goes to Day 1, but I think there is back-story before that, with more about the boat/arrangements/etc.

https://www.captainfatherjohn.com/great-loop-adventure-blog/1375-2

Wifey B: Well, we did it on a 65' Sunseeker, 69'4" LOA and averaged 6 people aboard, ranging from 5 to 7. We did our normal routine of 6 to 8 weeks on, then a 3 week break. A little time at home and then back. But then some factors that made it work. We have people who are always around each other so no question about compatibility. Also, :lol: most of the time is was all female except my hubby. All regular cruisers. Typically 3 licensed captains among us (as we both are) and 1 licensed engineer. However, I think boat and boat speed makes a lot of difference. We cruised at 26 knots so we could move 100+ nm in 4 hours and then enjoy the destination and everyone was heavily involved in planning. So our relationship of time sightseeing vs. time on the water was different and our distance covered.

What I'm trying to say is that 6 can work, but it takes such a perfect situation of how close the 6 are, of the size of the boat, of the speed of the boat, of the planned activities and most are not going to have that perfect combination which makes me think for the vast majority, 4 people is the absolute limit.

Great price

mvweebles said:

I wonder how insurance on an arrangement like this would work? Commercial insurance on a boat is prohibitively expensive.

As Seevee states, finding a willing owner with a decent boat may be difficult. Getting past the partnership issues of managing wear/tear, repairs, upgrades, depreciation, damages, etc. would be a further complication.

A cleaner and likely less expensive approach would be to buy a boat - many suitable examples listed for under $100k, then sell it at a firesale price of, say, $80k. You're out $20k-$25k, but less of a haircut than rental.

Here's an example of a decent boat. Not even sure it's priced right.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/monk-36-trawler-3738514/

Peter

Click to expand...

Great price on this Monk trawler, might be able to nudge the price down

Greetings,
T&M. Welcome aboard.

Thank you. We live aboard our 36’ Sea Ray 1983 355T fully customized. Could not imagine renting our ‘Dolphin’ to anyone! We are completely off grid with solar and water maker aboard. Just arrived in Merritt Island Jan 1, 2021 to tend to our relatives in poor health. We previously lived in the Florida Keys. Great Loop is on our bucket list after all is said and done. We are hoping to get some gunkholing in throughout the state of Florida, (our home state) before then.

"Many of them just mount the mast on the deck so that they can step it when they get to the Gulf and sail from there to NY."

A sailboat that can sail well will likely have a tall mast . Many are held under 55ft so they can traverse the AICW.

The loop has dozens of locks and I fear even a 40 ft boat with a 55+ ft mast would be exciting to get tied up to a lock wall with no damage a few hundred times.Then there is fuel,provisions ,laundry and pump outs.