Engine Oil Fitration

Phase3 · Jan 17, 2021

A thought for the forum members;
In the marine world, especially with diesel engines, there is always a large focus on ensuring that the fuel is clean and particulate-free, and for good reason.
However, what about engine oil? Recently I stumbled across some information regarding adding an "oil bypass" system. The premise behind this system is to pull oil from the system, without hindering the main oiling system, volume or pressure. This oil then passes through a 2-micron filter and then gets placed back into the engine internals. Over a period of time, 30 - 40 minutes depending on volume, the entire volume will have been circulated through the 2 micron filter, hence enhancing the filtering of the contaminants.
One such system is produced by Amsoil. There are others.
Has anyone thought of this as an addition to their engine oil system, or is there anyone out there that currently uses this or a similar system?
For the money and ease of install, I am thinking this may be a worthwhile addition.

Brent

Comodave · Jan 17, 2021

For a while it was a big thing but has seemed to have died down a bit. There certainly is something to be said about getting the oil cleaner but how much? I don’t know if it is worth the effort or not. Most boats only run about 100 hours a year or maybe even less.

Lepke · Jan 17, 2021

I used bypass filters since the 1960s. They do clean the oil better and can extend oil change intervals. Any fluid with debris causes wear. The cleaner the oil the longer surfaces last. Over the years, I've compared my engines, commercial and private, with others using the same brand. I've always got longer times between rebuilds. I've been doing rebuilds since 1969 and seen the insides of lots of engines. Clean oil makes a difference, especially for the rings and sleeves.
I've been centrifuging my oil since 2011 and have only changed the filters. I do test, but have never had a bad test. My oil stays semi transparent. Filters never get dirty, but I cut them open yearly to look for metal.
I think bypass filters can add 20-30% more time between rebuilds. More if you're not running your engine hard.

Simi 60 · Jan 17, 2021

Our 855 Cummins has a bypass filter as a standard thing so I believe.
@250 hours when oil is due for replacement you can still see dipstick marks through it.
We rarely run harder than 1250 rpm.

As for extra effort, its what, a minute or 3 to change a filter?

costalive · Jan 17, 2021

Lepke said:
I used bypass filters since the 1960s. They do clean the oil better and can extend oil change intervals. Any fluid with debris causes wear. The cleaner the oil the longer surfaces last. Over the years, I've compared my engines, commercial and private, with others using the same brand. I've always got longer times between rebuilds. I've been doing rebuilds since 1969 and seen the insides of lots of engines. Clean oil makes a difference, especially for the rings and sleeves.
I've been centrifuging my oil since 2011 and have only changed the filters. I do test, but have never had a bad test. My oil stays semi transparent. Filters never get dirty, but I cut them open yearly to look for metal.
I think bypass filters can add 20-30% more time between rebuilds. More if you're not running your engine hard.

My I ask how you are centrifuging the oil, are you using a Spinner II?

O C Diver · Jan 17, 2021

I looked long and hard at a bypass filter for my boat. Finally decided that changing the oil and filter more frequently was a simpler more fool proof answer. The engine holds 3.5 gallons of oil and the filter is under $10. Oil analysis confirms nice low wear metals.

Ted

caltexflanc · Jan 17, 2021

I too seriously contemplated installing a Gulf Coast bypass system but lt never made the first page of The List. To me it only makes sense if I was crossing oceans, or perhaps if I had for some odd reason bought a boat with bad engine maintenance ergonomics.

rslifkin · Jan 17, 2021

O C Diver said:
I looked long and hard at a bypass filter for my boat. Finally decided that changing the oil and filter more frequently was a simpler more fool proof answer. The engine holds 3.5 gallons of oil and the filter is under $10. Oil analysis confirms nice low wear metals.

Ted

Math comes out that way for my engines as well, especially with a change only being about 5.5 quarts. And depending on the engines and usage pattern, bypass may or may not allow longer change intervals anyway if you're running low on TBN at change time.

It will keep the oil a little cleaner though, which certainly can't hurt.

Lepke · Jan 17, 2021

Costalive said:
My I ask how you are centrifuging the oil, are you using a Spinner II?

I use a 10,000G Filtermax. I'd prefer Alfa Laval like I used on ships and tugs, but they cost many thousands, even used. The Spinner II is spun by oil pressure thru a nozzle, against blades. It's speed is much slower and determined by your engine oil pressure. Speed is critical. Debris is embedded in the bowl where it's removed later. Slower spinning speeds mean smaller, lighter debris and water isn't eliminated. My centrifuge is motor driven and removed more debris in 20 minutes than the Spinner in several days. I don't run it continuous, but in batches about every 25 to 50 engine hours. Usually after a run and the oil is already hot. Hot oil separates out dirt and water much better. My engine pan drains are plumbed to a gear pump that delivers the oil to what was a waste oil tank. The tank has a heater (if needed) and feeds the centrifuge. How fast the oil passes thru determines how clean it gets. I do 2 Detroits and a generator in about 20 minutes. If I metered the oil slower, about an hours time, the oil comes out like new oil, clear, no sign of soot. I don't know what the particle size is, but the oil is cleaner than any bypass filter I ever ran. I think the Spinner II is about equal to a bypass filter.

WVO Centrifuge Systems - US Filtermaxx

FF · Jan 17, 2021

Both the bypass filters and a centrifuge return clean oil to the engine.

Changing oil and filters gives clean oil then , but an hour later its old oil with the fines , (the small stuff the std. filter can not catch ) being pumped thru your engine. .

Nomad Willy · Jan 17, 2021

In automotive the only oil filtration system was “by-pass” up to the mid 50’s. There was no other until about the mid fifties. I remember the canister .. it was usually bigger than modern full flow. Marine engines were probably the same.

As oil was pumped through the system a bit was by-passed off to go through the by-pass filter. A molecule of oil may go straight to the bearings numerous times before it would find it’s way to the filter.

My first real job was at a Texaco gas station. We did a lot of lube jobs. There were many many “zerk” fittings that had to be greased. Most had to do w the front suspension. A counter book (Texaco) had drawings of all the cars and their zerk fittings. Seems to me there were 20 - 25 fittings and I got checked at times to see how many I missed. You could tell if there was fresh grease on a zerk fitting. The book was called “Marfack lubrication guide” don’t know why I remember that.

And re our boats it’s obvious that the ideal system is to employ both full flow and by-pass filtration.

Phase3 · Jan 17, 2021

All good thoughts. I looked into Gulf Coast also.It is substantially larger and I can imagine much more expensive. I know that the Amsoil set up is around $400.00. That includes a 2-micron filter. If we put approximately 200 hours per year on the trawler, I would likely still change the oil and main filter every fall, but only change the Amsoil 2-micron filter every other year.
Has anyone had experience with the Amsoil set up. Was also planning on putting a similar set up on our GMC Duramax.
Seems like an inexpensive option for piece of mind and a bit of security given the cost of either engine.

Comodave · Jan 17, 2021

Phase3 said:
All good thoughts. I looked into Gulf Coast also.It is substantially larger and I can imagine much more expensive. I know that the Amsoil set up is around $400.00. That includes a 2-micron filter. If we put approximately 200 hours per year on the trawler, I would likely still change the oil and main filter every fall, but only change the Amsoil 2-micron filter every other year.
Has anyone had experience with the Amsoil set up. Was also planning on putting a similar set up on our GMC Duramax.
Seems like an inexpensive option for piece of mind and a bit of security given the cost of either engine.

I have not looked at the GC filters lately but if I remember correctly they claim less than 1 micron filtering.

Phase3 · Jan 17, 2021

Yes you’re correct. A lot of truckers are actually saying they are using toilet paper or paper towels as their filter medium.

They do look like a good filter system.

BT

oscar · Jan 18, 2021

Nomad Willy said:
Seems to me there were 20 - 25 fittings

My Freightliner chassis motorhome has 19......

Meanwhile:

caltexflanc · Jan 18, 2021

I had oil analysis done every time I changed the engine oil, including the transmissions even if they weren't getting a change (had a longer interval spec). I did change religiously, as much as four times a year, and used oil well within Detroit's specs (often with the Detroit rebranded Mobil) and used high end Detroit fullflow or Baldwin filters. The oil analysis always came back great, so I asked myself what I would really gain by adding the bypass, and thus never moved that project up The List.

Maybe if I had badly aged and maintained engines and analyses trending poorly, it would be a way to squeeze some more life out of them and/or the oil.

costalive · Jan 18, 2021

Lepke said:
I use a 10,000G Filtermax. I'd prefer Alfa Laval like I used on ships and tugs, but they cost many thousands, even used. The Spinner II is spun by oil pressure thru a nozzle, against blades. It's speed is much slower and determined by your engine oil pressure. Speed is critical. Debris is embedded in the bowl where it's removed later. Slower spinning speeds mean smaller, lighter debris and water isn't eliminated. My centrifuge is motor driven and removed more debris in 20 minutes than the Spinner in several days. I don't run it continuous, but in batches about every 25 to 50 engine hours. Usually after a run and the oil is already hot. Hot oil separates out dirt and water much better. My engine pan drains are plumbed to a gear pump that delivers the oil to what was a waste oil tank. The tank has a heater (if needed) and feeds the centrifuge. How fast the oil passes thru determines how clean it gets. I do 2 Detroits and a generator in about 20 minutes. If I metered the oil slower, about an hours time, the oil comes out like new oil, clear, no sign of soot. I don't know what the particle size is, but the oil is cleaner than any bypass filter I ever ran. I think the Spinner II is about equal to a bypass filter.

WVO Centrifuge Systems - US Filtermaxx

Thank you Lepke,
You make a lot of sense.
I studied the information on US Filtermaxx sight and called them, I like their product and found them honest.

Taras · Jan 18, 2021

https://www.puradyn.com/

https://www.puradyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/CommercialMarineBrochure_Rev2.pdf?x91573

My 3306 Cat's had these Puradyn bypass filters installed when the motors had 500 hours on them. They now have 5800 hours on them. I feel this has really extended the life of my engines. Really no noticeable smoke on start up and very little oil burn over time. The oil stays really clean, extending the time between oil changes. Also, you'll notice these units "burn off" any water vapor in the oil.
I have had really good results.
Taras

Lepke · Jan 18, 2021

In the 1960s I used a Frantz toilet paper filter. They still make it. I used on gas engines. The oil stayed new looking. When it started to show a little dirt, you changed the toiler paper. The cheap toilet paper worked best. 10 rolls for a dollar. As emission controls were added to engines, it didn't work as well. Too much crap in the oil. As I remember, tests showed the oil containing 3 micron and under particles.
The truckers that use the paper towel rolls and testing are getting very high mileage between changes. Some told me over 100,000. Those are probably the size to use for a Detroit sized engine. I've used most of the bypass filters sold or use-to-be sold. They all brought the particle size down to below 5 micron. My last gas truck, Chevy 3/4t 4x4, went 300,000 before overhaul. About 50% towing miles. I had a hydraulic spin on filter on the transmission, it made 350,000. The front seal failed or it would have gone further. Rebuilder said clutches and bearings were still ok.

catalinajack · Jan 19, 2021

I'm not sure I understand your logic on this one. Why, then, ever bother changing the oil if it is always dirty? Maybe just change the filter ever 200 hours?

FF said:
Both the bypass filters and a centrifuge return clean oil to the engine.

Changing oil and filters gives clean oil then , but an hour later its old oil with the fines , (the small stuff the std. filter can not catch ) being pumped thru your engine. .

catalinajack · Jan 19, 2021

Phase3, I have used an Amsoil by-pass filter on my 2003 Duramax since after it was broken in at 10,000 miles and always synthetic oil. It now has 316,000 miles and over 7,600 hours on the clock. I cannot perceive any difference in the way it runs from new. It uses about eight ounces of oil in 10,000 miles, so little that I sometimes forget to check the oil for months. I have gone as long as 850 hours on an oil change with the oil analysis coming back with a "continue to use" recommendation. Change the filters as recommended and drive on.

The same result can be had on a boat. I considered by-pass for my boat but it would have taken up more real estate than I would have wanted. I just use Amsoil synthetic, change the huge Amsoil full flow filter (same base as a Fram PH8A) every 200 hours, and the oil every four or five hundred hours. Even at that the oil analysis comes back still good to use.

Phase3 said:
All good thoughts. I looked into Gulf Coast also.It is substantially larger and I can imagine much more expensive. I know that the Amsoil set up is around $400.00. That includes a 2-micron filter. If we put approximately 200 hours per year on the trawler, I would likely still change the oil and main filter every fall, but only change the Amsoil 2-micron filter every other year.
Has anyone had experience with the Amsoil set up. Was also planning on putting a similar set up on our GMC Duramax.
Seems like an inexpensive option for piece of mind and a bit of security given the cost of either engine.

FF · Jan 19, 2021

"Why, then, ever bother changing the oil if it is always dirty?"

Lube oil contains many chemicals , anti rust, anti foaming , and others that can be used up , even in a non running just sitting engine.

That's why Da Book always gives time in the engine , along with hours or miles till oil change..

Changing bypass filters requires oil to be added , which renews some of the necessary chemicals.

Similar requirements for many antifreezes.

catalinajack · Jan 19, 2021

FF, you have confused me again. What is the chemical process by which additives are used up just sitting in the sump? Makes no sense to me but perhaps you have come across some technical analyses that suggest this to be true. If so, I would love to read them. I have run synthetic oil in my diesel truck for as long as 800 hours with an oil analysis that came back showing that the additive package was still viable and the oil good for continued use.

FF said:
"Why, then, ever bother changing the oil if it is always dirty?"

Lube oil contains many chemicals , anti rust, anti foaming , and others that can be used up , even in a non running just sitting engine.

That's why Da Book always gives time in the engine , along with hours or miles till oil change..

Changing bypass filters requires oil to be added , which renews some of the necessary chemicals.

Similar requirements for many antifreezes.

FF · Jan 20, 2021

" What is the chemical process by which additives are used up just sitting in the sump?"

MY guess would be the anti rust or anti foaming goodies , but we have some oil pros on the board that will be able to be specific on why engine mfg desire fresh oil while in long term storage has a life , just sitting..

Engine Oil Fitration

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