MurrayM
Guru
Okay...I started another thread: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/winter-boating-photos-stories-55165.html#post958852
Full timers and semi full timers - boat prep winter
- Thread starter rsn48
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Okay...I started another thread: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/winter-boating-photos-stories-55165.html#post958852
Jay N
Guru
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- 502
- Location
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- Vessel Name
- WESTERLY
- Vessel Make
- 1974 Pacific Trawler 37
Don't winterize while in the water in the PNW - although I don't use the boat in winter as much as in the past.
Regarding electrical heaters, I presently use the Caframo heater in the aft bilge at the 600 watt setting (no higher). The heat takes care of the under deck area, as well as slightly warming the main cabin.
In the engine room, I've tried three different pan heaters over the years, and all failed within 24 months of each other. Whereas the effect of heating the pan/engine was good, they were unreliable, and probably a fire hazard due to their high relative heat.
Presently, use a non-fan [FONT="]Davis Air Dryr 1000 – 130 watts under the engine - it creates low level level heat that keeps condensation from forming. It's not much of a starting aid for engines that need supplemental heat.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]On another boat many years ago, I used a 500W engine coolant heater, which was very dependable. The immersed coil provides a certain level of safety.
[FONT="]Like many here, I use a 33 liter dehumidifier to keep moisture at bay. It's only drawback is the 5-6 amps of AC power, and the fact that it doesn't work very well under 55 deg F.[/FONT]
[FONT="]For many years I was a fan of the oil filled heaters, only using them on their lowest heat setting. Then, a sailboat at a local marina had one start a fire from the heater's control panel.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]There is no heater that is infallible. [/FONT]
Regarding electrical heaters, I presently use the Caframo heater in the aft bilge at the 600 watt setting (no higher). The heat takes care of the under deck area, as well as slightly warming the main cabin.
In the engine room, I've tried three different pan heaters over the years, and all failed within 24 months of each other. Whereas the effect of heating the pan/engine was good, they were unreliable, and probably a fire hazard due to their high relative heat.
Presently, use a non-fan [FONT="]Davis Air Dryr 1000 – 130 watts under the engine - it creates low level level heat that keeps condensation from forming. It's not much of a starting aid for engines that need supplemental heat.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]On another boat many years ago, I used a 500W engine coolant heater, which was very dependable. The immersed coil provides a certain level of safety.
[FONT="]Like many here, I use a 33 liter dehumidifier to keep moisture at bay. It's only drawback is the 5-6 amps of AC power, and the fact that it doesn't work very well under 55 deg F.[/FONT]
[FONT="]For many years I was a fan of the oil filled heaters, only using them on their lowest heat setting. Then, a sailboat at a local marina had one start a fire from the heater's control panel.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]There is no heater that is infallible. [/FONT]
ctjstr
Senior Member
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- Camano Troll
I don't particularly winterize, for the reasons mentioned above here in the PNW. BUT, the thing I forget to do, and pay the price for, is drain the cockpit shower. The lines don't freeze but I've had to replace the fixture once and the handle a couple times. Stupid me.
rsn
Your issue is the maximum of 15amps of hydro power.
I expect you will be leaving your charger on, in case your bilge pumps come on, if for no other reason. What does it draw?
For reference only, mine draws up to 15 amps, though likely only if the batteries are just plugged in and are low. The spec sheet gives no further information. But the caution is there, you don't want both your 600w (600w/1500w=40%) and your charger, (1500w/1500w=100%) on at the same time, or your breaker will blow and remain off until your next visit.
I my view, the charger and the bilge pumps are far more important than a heater.
I Vancouver, where my boat winters in the water, we get ice on the water every few years, as the water in Coal Harbour has a layer of fresh on top of the salt.
Since I retired, this is the first winter I have been around, so Retreat has had to survive without regular visits. My kids drop in occasionally, as do a couple of friends. I have kept this boat in that marina since I bought it, in 1994, and I know also that it was kept in Vancouver, either in a shelter at RVYC or open moorage at Mosquito creek (also fresh water on top) since new in 1980. In all that time, the most heat in the ER has been on my watch. I keep the water tank on at all times. I keep the charger on at all times. Both generate heat. The cabin floor is insulated, the fuel tanks are outside the engines, and in contact with the hull, so will be at or close to the temp of the sea water, even without the heat sources. I keep them full. After a few months without use, the temp in the ER will have dropped to ambient, but for the heat from the 2 sources I have there. I have never bothered to measure that temp, but in every case, when I have checked in the ER in the winter, it was noticeably warmer than the cabin above.
Some here have disputed the practice of leaving the hot water on. Whenever I have put my hand on the hoses and fittings on the outside of the HW, they are hot, so I know that radiant heat is coming off them and warming the ER. Likewise the charger. It may cycle, though I can't recall a time that I didn't hear it, so long as power wsa available to keep it on.
I use a heater like you have suggested, but I have it in the aft cabin, to keep mould away. I also use a lower wattage unit in the forepeak, for the same purpose. Neither of those puts out enough to keep the main cabin warm.
I have been doing safety inspections at RVYC for over 25 years. The things we Inspectors are trained to worry about begin with power cords. We check both the main supply cord and its connections and every space heater. The most frequently blamed sources of fire at marinas are electrical. Both the main power connection and all heater cords inside the boat. One thing is sure, if you don't have a heater with a large draw, you are much less likely to have a fire.
In your present situation, with only 15 amps to play with, I would leave the charge on and maybe a single incandescent light in the ER, full tanks (assuming yours are in the ER) and relax.
Your issue is the maximum of 15amps of hydro power.
I expect you will be leaving your charger on, in case your bilge pumps come on, if for no other reason. What does it draw?
For reference only, mine draws up to 15 amps, though likely only if the batteries are just plugged in and are low. The spec sheet gives no further information. But the caution is there, you don't want both your 600w (600w/1500w=40%) and your charger, (1500w/1500w=100%) on at the same time, or your breaker will blow and remain off until your next visit.
I my view, the charger and the bilge pumps are far more important than a heater.
I Vancouver, where my boat winters in the water, we get ice on the water every few years, as the water in Coal Harbour has a layer of fresh on top of the salt.
Since I retired, this is the first winter I have been around, so Retreat has had to survive without regular visits. My kids drop in occasionally, as do a couple of friends. I have kept this boat in that marina since I bought it, in 1994, and I know also that it was kept in Vancouver, either in a shelter at RVYC or open moorage at Mosquito creek (also fresh water on top) since new in 1980. In all that time, the most heat in the ER has been on my watch. I keep the water tank on at all times. I keep the charger on at all times. Both generate heat. The cabin floor is insulated, the fuel tanks are outside the engines, and in contact with the hull, so will be at or close to the temp of the sea water, even without the heat sources. I keep them full. After a few months without use, the temp in the ER will have dropped to ambient, but for the heat from the 2 sources I have there. I have never bothered to measure that temp, but in every case, when I have checked in the ER in the winter, it was noticeably warmer than the cabin above.
Some here have disputed the practice of leaving the hot water on. Whenever I have put my hand on the hoses and fittings on the outside of the HW, they are hot, so I know that radiant heat is coming off them and warming the ER. Likewise the charger. It may cycle, though I can't recall a time that I didn't hear it, so long as power wsa available to keep it on.
I use a heater like you have suggested, but I have it in the aft cabin, to keep mould away. I also use a lower wattage unit in the forepeak, for the same purpose. Neither of those puts out enough to keep the main cabin warm.
I have been doing safety inspections at RVYC for over 25 years. The things we Inspectors are trained to worry about begin with power cords. We check both the main supply cord and its connections and every space heater. The most frequently blamed sources of fire at marinas are electrical. Both the main power connection and all heater cords inside the boat. One thing is sure, if you don't have a heater with a large draw, you are much less likely to have a fire.
In your present situation, with only 15 amps to play with, I would leave the charge on and maybe a single incandescent light in the ER, full tanks (assuming yours are in the ER) and relax.
rsn48
Guru
- Joined
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- Capricorn
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- Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
I have the Victron smart charger. Even though my boat is out of refit, effective this past August, things are still being worked on in my boat, stuff that should work and not working or working poorly. This past few days ago, I finally had my Oceanaire 9 1/2 RIB and Seawise Davits added to the boat. I was talking to the tech guy installing the RIB et. al. and we discussed this very issue of 15 amps.
I had turned off the charger and he didn't recommend this avenue, but note: I have had my fridge on since August. So I cleaned out the fridge and shut it off, this to reduce amps. The techie said the Victron would only use a couple of amps as the state of charge was in float mode, not like I had just returned from a trip and need to "bulk up" so to speak.
I have an Efoy and we discussed whether to turn the charger off and leave the Efoy on, it is off right now. My cheap self ($100 canister) wants to only use Efoy on the hook in this off season time. so I can see going over to Grace Harbour and Squirrel's Cove (both pretty protected from the worst of the winds) and relying on Efoy. I have solar but I know the panels aren't that helpful in our shorter days and heavy clouds we are experiencing right now.
I am toying with adding a fan to the mix but keeping it on a lower setting.
Fortunately for me, I lived in a travel trailer at the RV park by the Lion's Gate Bridge decades ago when I decided I didn't want to help some landlord get wealthier while I remained poorer. So my wife and I bought a brand new 35 foot fifth wheel which we lived in and paid down by Park Royal; this money at sale time of the RV to be our down payment for a house. This was back in late 70's and the RV park at the time only had 15 amps. You can imagine how many times I flicked off the circuit breaker before I got a handle on what draws how many amps.
I don't like having 15 amps but it is teaching me how to use less power while still using a toaster, microwave and tv. Oh and the Espar diesel heater which draws a lot of juice when you add in the three fans to the mix.
Fortunately I have 6 new firefly batteries so they will be able to take some abuse which they were designed for.
As the dredging gets closer to done, I will be lobbying for a 30 amp slot.
I had turned off the charger and he didn't recommend this avenue, but note: I have had my fridge on since August. So I cleaned out the fridge and shut it off, this to reduce amps. The techie said the Victron would only use a couple of amps as the state of charge was in float mode, not like I had just returned from a trip and need to "bulk up" so to speak.
I have an Efoy and we discussed whether to turn the charger off and leave the Efoy on, it is off right now. My cheap self ($100 canister) wants to only use Efoy on the hook in this off season time. so I can see going over to Grace Harbour and Squirrel's Cove (both pretty protected from the worst of the winds) and relying on Efoy. I have solar but I know the panels aren't that helpful in our shorter days and heavy clouds we are experiencing right now.
I am toying with adding a fan to the mix but keeping it on a lower setting.
Fortunately for me, I lived in a travel trailer at the RV park by the Lion's Gate Bridge decades ago when I decided I didn't want to help some landlord get wealthier while I remained poorer. So my wife and I bought a brand new 35 foot fifth wheel which we lived in and paid down by Park Royal; this money at sale time of the RV to be our down payment for a house. This was back in late 70's and the RV park at the time only had 15 amps. You can imagine how many times I flicked off the circuit breaker before I got a handle on what draws how many amps.
I don't like having 15 amps but it is teaching me how to use less power while still using a toaster, microwave and tv. Oh and the Espar diesel heater which draws a lot of juice when you add in the three fans to the mix.
Fortunately I have 6 new firefly batteries so they will be able to take some abuse which they were designed for.
As the dredging gets closer to done, I will be lobbying for a 30 amp slot.
IntoTheBlue
Senior Member
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- Jan 10, 2016
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- Into The Blue
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- Mainship Pilot 43
I keep my boat on a canal behind my house. Like you, my area normally does not freeze for long lengths of time. Although at times, it has. So it is prudent to be prepared. I go a bit overboard by winterizing (anti-freeze)my entire system, including engines and genset. This way, if I am away, I do not have to worry about a power outage.
To lengthen the season I do use an XTreme Heater (600 watts) for the engine room. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=6599190
My problem though is more with condensation than with freezing. I have skylights and large windows, so the water just builds up to a point where it drips from the ceiling. I started using three low power David Dehumidifiers, which works great, keeping condensation to a minimum. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1558066
I am going to check out the Wolverine oil pan heaters mentioned earlier.
To lengthen the season I do use an XTreme Heater (600 watts) for the engine room. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=6599190
My problem though is more with condensation than with freezing. I have skylights and large windows, so the water just builds up to a point where it drips from the ceiling. I started using three low power David Dehumidifiers, which works great, keeping condensation to a minimum. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1558066
I am going to check out the Wolverine oil pan heaters mentioned earlier.
IntoTheBlue
Senior Member
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- Into The Blue
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- Mainship Pilot 43
I have had some really bad degradation on the port side of my port engine. (Not sure why so isolated to this area), It was bad enough where I had to have all of the fittings related to the fuel pump and throttle linkage replaced.
I wonder if the oil pan heater could help with this. Definitely worth looking into.
rsn48
Guru
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- Feb 18, 2019
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- Capricorn
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- Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
I have skylights and large windows, so the water just builds up to a point where it drips from the ceiling
I've spent many days in the off season staying on my boat for multiple overnights but I haven't full timed it. But.............. I have full timed it in RVs, multiple RVs. And what you describe is a common problem with them. The RV top hatch sizes are standardized so you can go purchase a cushion type thing that just pops into the hatch space. I used to make my own insulated board, cut from insulation board. Sometimes the crappy insulation that comes with purchased products can work a wee better as those larger bubbles give a bit more play.
Go to your local RV supply store and asked them for suggestions. I have a hatch which I will probably be doing the same type of solution. Or... go into an RV forum and ask there for the solutions that work for them.
I've spent many days in the off season staying on my boat for multiple overnights but I haven't full timed it. But.............. I have full timed it in RVs, multiple RVs. And what you describe is a common problem with them. The RV top hatch sizes are standardized so you can go purchase a cushion type thing that just pops into the hatch space. I used to make my own insulated board, cut from insulation board. Sometimes the crappy insulation that comes with purchased products can work a wee better as those larger bubbles give a bit more play.
Go to your local RV supply store and asked them for suggestions. I have a hatch which I will probably be doing the same type of solution. Or... go into an RV forum and ask there for the solutions that work for them.
firehoser75
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I am not sure if it will help with that, but it won't hurt.
Check out sbmar.com on both the forums and especially under Tony's tips for info on the effectiveness of these "engine warmers".
I am not associated with this business, but am happy to learn from all of their experience and knowledge.
