Full timers and semi full timers - boat prep winter

I thought I'd put this in my local regional area as our winters are a bit different. We can have lots of snow or no snow, we can lots of freezing or no freezing.

I visit my boat about every 10 days and often will live in it while still at the marina for roughly 5 days at a time. Our marina is about to have one area dredged which means no one to their boats spontaneously while dredging is going on. It is expected to last the month of January. So I have to anticipate extended freezing for a couple of days or a week or so. Currently there has been very little freezing in Comox, maybe an hour or two at night, that's it.

I have a dedicated engine room heater that is roughly 600 watts and comes on roughly around 4 C. I am adding a Caframo heater that has three heat settings, lowest is 600 amps. I plan to place this in the bilge area on lowest setting for heat (I am currently in a 15 amp service location, not a lot of juice, so I have to be frugal).

Here is the unit: https://www.amazon.ca/True-North-He...ocphy=9001446&hvtargid=pla-353894590732&psc=1

My question is what do you do to keep your boat adequately heated and vented for your away time from the boat?

Don't know if this will ease your mind any, but the PO of our boat apparently never put a heater in the engine room of our boat. We get cold snaps to -20C that can last a week or more. His theory was that the Pacific Ocean is an adequate radiant heater through the hull of the boat.

He was an engineer, so one would think he put some thought into it. The sea water strainer never froze, broke, thawed, then sunk the boat, so I guess he was right.

I couldn't continue that tradition so we have a heat lamp directed at the engine, and close the seacock when not there. Also have a heater with fan like you, and a couple small radiant boat heaters scattered around.

If the power goes out, the inverter turns the heaters off so as not to drain the batteries, but will turn the heaters back on when power comes back.

Be sure to drain your waterlines. We drain ours, but the power went out during a cold snap and there was a dip (subtle "u" shape) under the sink & behind some plywood that wasn't visible which froze and cracked. Very annoying!

We use our boat during the winter, on nice days between northerly outflow winds and storms from the south coming off the Pacific. Going for a quick romp today.

I recommend installing a Wolverine oil pan heater on the engine. It is only 200 watts, so uses little power, and it keeps the engine and the ER warm and just as importantly dry. I leave the ER hatch open and the warmth migrates upward a bit.

I leave that running constantly. I also have a dehumidifier on in the galley (draining into the galley sink and right overboard). It can be set on a timer, or some even allow for setting a "humidity set point" for self shut off. If power goes out, these both go off, but come back on when power resumes.
I also run a small electric space heater in the forward stateroom set to the lowest setting I can obtain both for wattage (about 600 I think) and temp (set to about 45 degrees F). I have 30 amp service, and most times when I check the amp draw, I am at or less than 10 amps. I would guess that when the outside temperature drops low (like 0 C) that my draw may reach 15 amps. You could also run a small fan for air movement where needed.
As a precaution, I would definitely drain the freshwater system, and if really worried, install some RV antifreeze or "blow out" the system.

The winter I was leaving for Florida after my refit, the Chesapeake had gone below freezing the last few days before departure. Left the 600 watt block heater in the engine's freshwater cooling system on. Engine room stayed around 40 degrees.

An engine heater wired through an anti freeze thermostat would be my choice for the engine room.

Ted

I am in the Puget Sound. Only once in 30 years have I seen ice. A thin skim layer of ice and yet my transducer which is 3’ below the surface read 48 degrees. I don’t see any danger of freezing below the water line. You might want to drain fresh water lines if they run close to the hull and above the water line.

We are 10 miles south of Annapolis. I do not winterize the engine room. Three winters ago we had several days of overnight temps in the single digits. The engine room never went below 35 degrees. Yes, the boat is sitting in a water bath of above freezing water. The requirements for winterizing boats that stay in the water, IMHO, are overblown. Antifreeze. Why? Drain the water heater, water tanks, and open the sea water system to drain the water. Evacuate the hot and cold water piping. The remaining water will not burst anything with its ability to now expand, especially the water in the water tanks and water heater. Think not? Get yourself a metal bucket. Fill it half-way and let it freeze solid outside. Will it split the seam? Nope. The ice will expand upward same way as ice cubes in a tray. I laugh when I see the hundreds of empty antifreeze gallon containers in the recycling area. What a waste. I acknowledge that I am a contrarian in this regard but just think about it a bit. Oh, yes, a bit of antifreeze in the toilet bowls.

Using a low-draw engine heater adds just a bit of heat, enough for peace of mind. I don't but it makes some sense.

MurrayM said:

Don't know if this will ease your mind any, but the PO of our boat apparently never put a heater in the engine room of our boat. We get cold snaps to -20C that can last a week or more. His theory was that the Pacific Ocean is an adequate radiant heater through the hull of the boat.

He was an engineer, so one would think he put some thought into it. The sea water strainer never froze, broke, thawed, then sunk the boat, so I guess he was right.

I couldn't continue that tradition so we have a heat lamp directed at the engine, and close the seacock when not there. Also have a heater with fan like you, and a couple small radiant boat heaters scattered around.

If the power goes out, the inverter turns the heaters off so as not to drain the batteries, but will turn the heaters back on when power comes back.

Be sure to drain your waterlines. We drain ours, but the power went out during a cold snap and there was a dip (subtle "u" shape) under the sink & behind some plywood that wasn't visible which froze and cracked. Very annoying!

We use our boat during the winter, on nice days between northerly outflow winds and storms from the south coming off the Pacific. Going for a quick romp today.

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In the camp of never winterized.
At this moment the seawater temp is 7-10*C. The air temp is 1-5*C. Inside the boat it is currently 10-14*C with 2 rad style electric heaters, plus an ER low heat stor dry.
Why would I need to do any more than that. Boat is ready to go when I am.

I couldn't continue that tradition so we have a heat lamp directed at the engine,

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On another's boat noticed smoke, I put out a fire started by a heat lamp, and have heard of others. Not the heat from the lamp but wind/waves making the lamp fall/break exposing the element that would glow for a bit, just saying.
Also fan forced electric heaters have caused problems when a fan stopped, thus I use rad style oil filled.

Although I am probably over a thousand miles north of you we probably have similar climates.

Like you I am on and off my boat all winter. Here is what I do...

First I leave the potable water system in service, no winterization. I do winbterize the engines and generator though.

For heat I have the diesel furnaces set up so I can turn them on and off remotely. I generally leave the cabin, and the salon furnaces running at about 50 degrees all winter, and turn the pilothouse furnace on and off as needed to either melt snow from the windshield or help the other furnaces.

I also have three built in electric furnaces that I have set up to turn on if it gets REALLY cold. I can also trun these on and off remotely.

For the engine room I have a fan that comes on and off that blows cabin air into the engine room. This works most of the time. If it gets really cold I have block heaters that I can turn on remotley. I also have a electric 750 watt heater for the engine room and another 300 watt heater for the lazarette that will come on and off automatically or remotely as well.

This system of multiple redundant heat sources has served me very well for 11 winters so far. I am on the boat for several nights, then home for a couple of weeks, then back on the boat. Winter is a great time to get projects done, and just chill out.

Kevin, when I hear winterize engines I wonder if that is the raw water circuit but cannot think of anything else. What do you do?

" I am adding a Caframo heater that has three heat settings, lowest is 600 amps."

That is one whomping big heater!.........

Our boat in Sidney has never had a problem with freezing, our oil filled heater is set on low and the boats temperature has never dropped below 40F.

If you're in water well above freezing, you don't really need heat. I've wintered in Nanaimo, the sea water was above 50°F, and the interior stayed about 40°F when I wasn't aboard and no heat on. The air temps at times were O°.
A block heater would work better and keep the engine dry.

" I am adding a Caframo heater that has three heat settings, lowest is 600 amps."

That is one whomping big heater!.........

Well it is one whomping heater, but it sure keeps the boat warm...lol.

I was at my local chandlery - Independent - for you locals, and one of the guys working there asked me how I liked the engine heater, he was thinking of adding one. He then went on to relate how much damage occurred to his boat engine due to freezing issues. He said the damage, can't remember what it was, cost him a couple of thousand dollars, and this was just outside of Qualicum Beach, not known for cold winters.

For you guys up in Alaska there is suppose to be a vicious storm brewing, occurring in less than a week, some record change in air pressure resulting in some wicked winds. Suppose to be hitting Vancouver Island, don't know how serious but it looks not good.

I turned on the heater today at the boat. When I showed up I was finally getting my Sea Wise davit system, dinghy and motor attached to my swim grid by one of my refit guys. The new Merc 9.9 is sure quieter than the Merc 9.9 I used on my Catalina 27, purchased in 2006.

He then went on to relate how much damage occurred to his boat engine due to freezing issues.

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If he was on the hard without heat during prolonged freeze then yes things will start to freeze. Boats in the water that is 50F even in winter take a whole lot of very low temps to affect anything.

Never winterized any engines! I do have an oil pan heater which keeps the engine nice and warm. I run those round low heat units that have a small fan. They help keep the interior in good shape. I also have two built-in electric heaters, and they are on, set to low, also mostly for keeping the interior from mildew.

In previous boats, I had some isolated fresh water systems in the cockpit which were susceptible to freezing. After I froze the first exterior faucet, I had shut off/drain valves installed for those.

My boat is hauled for the winter and all systems are winterized. No electrical connections are permitted if there is nobody on the boat, so no other choice really. To me this is normal procedure for all boaters in New England.

What does the marina owner think of onboard heaters? Not much, I would guess. Dangerous and expensive, for someone.

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

What does the marina owner think of onboard heaters? Not much, I would guess. Dangerous and expensive, for someone.

pete

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No heaters allowed on vacant boats where I am.

What does the marina owner think of onboard heaters? Not much, I would guess. Dangerous and expensive, for someone.

The one fight I had with a marina - Sewell's Marina to be exact - with an electrical bill for my Catalina 27 which was a 1974 (translation: very little electrical stuff on the boat, period). I had the equivalent of the heater I just turned on and set for automatic shut on and off at roughly 4C. Realize this is Horseshoe Bay (for you locals) and the winters are not long and extended even when they do happen, winds are another story.

I got this crazy bill for two months of electrical use in the hundreds of dollars. What these idiots would do is take a reading of about ten seconds and extrapolate that as to your usage over 24/7. I told the woman I had a heater, set at 600 watts that was off most of the time. I told her it was like me coming to her house, testing and seeing the furnace was on and assume the furnace was one 24/7 and charging that way. I won that battle.

Heaters are used on boats all over the planet, not sure where the comment is coming from. When I popped the main circuit breaker for my spot, I talked to the manager who had to come and show me how to throw it back. She thought it was because of a heater I had on, but she didn't say anything like "don't do it."

Pete Meisinger said:

What does the marina owner think of onboard heaters? Not much, I would guess. Dangerous and expensive, for someone.

pete

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My harbor put in a 50A service to accommodate my needs for backup electric heating.

Here in Alaska you can walk down the dock and hear the diesel furnaces running

rsn48 said:

What does the marina owner think of onboard heaters? Not much, I would guess. Dangerous and expensive, for someone.

The one fight I had with a marina - Sewell's Marina to be exact - with an electrical bill for my Catalina 27 which was a 1974 (translation: very little electrical stuff on the boat, period). I had the equivalent of the heater I just turned on and set for automatic shut on and off at roughly 4C. Realize this is Horseshoe Bay (for you locals) and the winters are not long and extended even when they do happen, winds are another story.

I got this crazy bill for two months of electrical use in the hundreds of dollars. What these idiots would do is take a reading of about ten seconds and extrapolate that as to your usage over 24/7. I told the woman I had a heater, set at 600 watts that was off most of the time. I told her it was like me coming to her house, testing and seeing the furnace was on and assume the furnace was one 24/7 and charging that way. I won that battle.

Heaters are used on boats all over the planet, not sure where the comment is coming from. When I popped the main circuit breaker for my spot, I talked to the manager who had to come and show me how to throw it back. She thought it was because of a heater I had on, but she didn't say anything like "don't do it."

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Heaters are not very common here in New England. Almost all boats are pulled for the winter, winterized, and stored on land. My marina has a strict rule about no boat being plugged in when nobody is on board. Electrical fire hazard. If the boat is winterized there is no need for a heater. And even with a heater, it would be prudent to winterize in case of power failure. Even indoor heated winter storage places winterize boats for that reason.

The bays freeze over here during cold snaps (fresh water at surface from nearby creeks) but salt water doesn't. I'd say 75% of the boats are still in their slips at the marina, and about 50% of those have tarps over them all winter...the rest use their boats all year.

Everybody has some sort of electrical device aboard.

MurrayM said:

The bays freeze over here during cold snaps (fresh water at surface from nearby creeks) but salt water doesn't. I'd say 75% of the boats are still in their slips at the marina, and about 50% of those have tarps over them all winter...the rest use their boats all year.

Everybody has some sort of electrical device aboard.

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Maybe I should have added that boats that are left in the water here during winter (very uncommon) can remain plugged into shore power. They would also need bubblers under the water to keep the water from freezing. The only people who do this are full time live-aboards who stay put rather than heading south. For the majority of us, the boat gets hauled and winterized and no electricity hook ups allowed. There is really no active boating during the winter other than commercial.

Here's our marina, at about -20C with ice starting to build out from shore. Our boat is in an outer slip, so never freezes in.

The channel is steaming because it's so warm compared to the air. That's the Pacific Ocean radiant heat source effect in full display.

In southern BC and northern Washington, to me the biggest "winter" issue is keeping mould and mildew from starting, and keeping the development of rust out of the ER.
By using a 200 watt oil pan heater (24/7), I keep the engine (especially the oil) nice and warm, which radiates some heat into the ER keeping the whole room somewhat warm but definitely dry. An added benefit is when starting the engine, the oil is already warm, reducing any incidental wear from the initial "lack of lube", and also makes for an easier, cleaner cold start.

To keep mildew and mould at bay, running a dehumidifier helps greatly, along with good air movement. Adding a small amount of heat does not hurt either.
I forgot to "winterize" the cockpit shower on my sailboat one year, and the shower head cracked that year from freeze damage. So it can happen, especially where external water "items" are not winterized.
I do agree, that around this area, it would be a very, very rare occurrence to have engine damage occur from freezing saltwater in the cooling system where a boat was kept in the water. However, if I were going to store my boat on the hard, I would winterize the raw water cooling side to be safe (even here).

Maybe this should be a separate thread, but when does it make sense to winter in the water vs. land? My boating season is basically May-Oct.

backinblue said:

Maybe this should be a separate thread, but when does it make sense to winter in the water vs. land? My boating season is basically May-Oct.

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When you do not have a boat trailer of your own big enough to pull it out.

Soo-Valley said:

When you do not have a boat trailer of your own big enough to pull it out.

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Maybe it's different where you are, but here you will be charged extra for wintering in your slip. Slip rentals are generally April to November. You also need to rent bubblers, pay electricity, etc. Unless you need to live aboard during the winter, it doesn't make sense to stay in the water. It's also good to do a yearly haul-out for bottom cleaning, painting, and inspection. If I lived somewhere that I could boat all year, I would probably have a different perspective.

backinblue said:

Maybe it's different where you are, but here you will be charged extra for wintering in your slip. Slip rentals are generally April to November. You also need to rent bubblers, pay electricity, etc. Unless you need to live aboard during the winter, it doesn't make sense to stay in the water. It's also good to do a yearly haul-out for bottom cleaning, painting, and inspection. If I lived somewhere that I could boat all year, I would probably have a different perspective.

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Correct, then you should ask the question for your location specific. For you on the hard as soon as you stop using until you start again.
I answered my location specific, it stays in the water, ready to go, albeit, without the need for an air conditioner.

We clearly don't have the issue now, but we were in very similar circumstances when we lived on the lake. We used the boat anytime decent which basically meant any weekend in the 40's or above. People on our lake would get lulled to sleep as many years you could do nothing and be fine. Some winterized, some used pet cocks to drain inboard outboard engines. Our approach was heat. We fully enclosed the boat and set up heaters to keep it a minimum of 60 degrees inside and in the engine compartment. Likely overkill but we discovered there was so little difference in keeping it 60 degrees and in keeping it 50. The sun through the glass and plastic windows provided a lot of heat. We liked the comfort that if the power went out it wasn't immediately going to freeze. I've also used insulating wraps over the engine. We did have alarms to let us know if we lost power.

What we found was that freezes weren't going to happen in our areas unless there were several days that the temperature failed to reach freezing or there were real extremes. Yes, warm water temperatures helped but they didn't prevent. Most years I never heard of a engines freezing and I first figured it was people winterizing. Then one winter I heard of hundreds freezing with 10, 20, even 50 in the same marina. All the people who said it "never gets that cold" found out. I know one dry dock storage unit which was racks indoors but no heat and they made everyone sign if they declined winterizing. Good thing they did. I always felt the only reason they didn't heat the facility was the money they made winterizing, then reversing in the spring.