Change electric stove, install gas stove

We use a Breville tabletop electric oven. It bakes bread, pizza, and cookies, roasts prime rib, just as well as our dirt house oven. I wouldn't remove a working gas set-up but induction backed up with the Beeville is a terrific alternative. Plus, if condensation is a problem on a particular boat, gas can make it much worse, not every boat but some. So, as with most things boating, there are choices and trade-offs and certainly few absolutes. If boiling water quickly is important, induction beats propane by a lot. We keep a butane portable burner (hob) for occasional use when we need a third burner.

Simi 60 said:

^^^ But its $1200 for 2 burners
And no oven
Where's the logic behind ripping out perfectly good gas and replacing it with a lesser product at a higher price?
What do they bake bread in, pizzas, roast etc?

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$1,200 is a ridiculous price. There are far less expensive and good alternatives.

Simi 60 said:

^^^ But its $1200 for 2 burners
And no oven
Where's the logic behind ripping out perfectly good gas and replacing it with a lesser product at a higher price?
What do they bake bread in, pizzas, roast etc?

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Just one more route to the same destination. Pick the one that works best for you. As for the danger issue, keep in mind that millions of homes are supplied with propane or natural gas. Yes, rarely, there is a tragedy but I see no stampede to stamp out gas in homes because it is so "dangerous" as if electrical fires never happen in homes or boats.

obthomas said:

I'm all electric and I have a $10,000 generator in a sound enclosure. Why would I ever consider solar and batteries and inverters or propane and all the extra crap that goes with them. Generator humming is sort of peaceful to me.

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The capital cost of a generator on a boat not purchased new is minimal. It comes with any good-sized boat. Therefore, operating costs are diesel fuel and an occasional oil change and impeller change.

mvweebles said:

Generator run-time is a bit of a holy war I suppose. East/Gulf Coast it's common to see boats with more generator hours than the mains. That's rare on the West Coast. Folks in that camp would say "When you add-up all the costs of ownership, maintenance, and operation, a generator is at least $10/hour. Why would I consider that when I can have solar and the accompanying quietness?"

Different strokes.....

Peter

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Simi 60, don't you have a generator, an inverter, and batteries? Worrying about an electrical system failure is not a good reason for propane. Simply keep a butane hob on board as backup if you wish for redundancy. Simi, you seem very protective of your boat choices. Your choices are not the right choices for others. And, no, I don't think there is anything simple about propane. Sure, the hook-up is, but storing gas bottles, hauling them ashore for refilling, and lugging them back aboard, that's simple? By the way, we cook with (and love) with an induction cooktop and tabletop convection oven but we also keep a full-size gas grill on the aft deck for grilling and smoking meats and pizza oven to boot. I keep a 20# and a 30# bottle aboard.

Simi 60 said:

Or look at gas as redundancy
If my genset or electrical system has issues I can still cook a meal with gas.

As for simplicity do you really think generator, inverters, batteries and wiring is more simple than a gas bottle and hose? (A little bit more complicated if inside)

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Baloney. And, besides just another Simi 60 pointless point. Lots of boats having something in particular doesn't make it a good choice. With time comes advances and change. Before induction, marine electric cooking was an awful alternative to propane. Same for vacuflush heads. Old technology, good 30 years ago, terrible today. Now, please, no comments or thread drift. I cited this just as an example.

Simi 60 said:

Bogus comparison yourself.
Very few boats have electric stoves as they are only a recent thing.

Far more have gas or metho.

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Yes, to each his own, good advice for all of us making comments. Smart-allecky retorts are not helpful.

mvweebles said:

I always love these gas-is-dangerous conversations. Risk is customarily calculated across impact if it happens vs probability that it might. Clearly, impact if a gas explosion occurs is extreme. But what about probability? Extremely low. Now what? What do you do about evaluating a high-impact but low-probability event?

Example: Suppose it was 10x more likely that you would die of a meteorite strike if you live between certain latitudes. Sounds ominous - better move, right? But if that 10x more likely equated to 1 in one-trillion vs one in ten-trillion? It's ten times more likely, but probability is still infinitesimal.

Of all the risks to worry about, having a propane stove blow-up is a long way down the list. Right after whether orange Crocs make my thighs look fat (note - I neither own nor wear Crocs of any color)?

I don't like electric boats because I don't like being forced to run a generator, especially 0400 when I want a cup of coffee. You want to talk about risk? Try waking-up my dearly beloved Cheryll at 4AM - risk-impact and probability of bodily harm are significant.

For me, a properly setup and sized solar system works well for small appliances. For bulk-cooking, gas stove/oven is the right answer for me. To each their own.

Peter

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Okay, that's Oz, but in the US, where there are a few more boats than in Oz, electric is far more prevalent.

Simi 60 said:

OK, well been in the boat building game in Oz since the early 80's and on this side of the pond, electric stoves in boats is a novelty/rarity.

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Why are you so defensive about your boat choices? You, sir, obviously, have the best boat, best systems, best of everything, nothing could be improved or work better. And, other folks choices, well, they are just ill-informed at best. Prove it! Really? That's a helpful response? I guess when you have nothing helpful to offer .....

Simi 60 said:

Prove it.

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DDW said:

I'm not really seeing D.E. responses as he is now on Ignore, but:

2000 miles in 17 days is a bit under 5 knots. In trades with a following wind and sea. Burning 340 gallons. Certainly doesn't qualify as an electric crossing. That particular crossing has been done many times on beach cats, wind surfers, kayaks, and boats as small as 6'. That cat had a lot of superstructure and windage, I wonder how many more days it would have been with no motor at all. In the ARC rally, the faster sailboats cross from the Canaries to the Windwards (a considerably longer passage) in 8 days when conditions are good, as they have appeared to have been, using zero gallons.

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I guess they missed the amemo. Once I identify frivolous tolls, I dont wasteanymore time on them. Yet one of them dd get it, said "thank goodness", then continued to troll.

That boat trip was in february...winter in Europe...it rained the first seven days. And good thing they never said it was a rave or rslly, nor do they advertise as a performance boat. But in normal conditions, about how many miles a day? I think they said 100. The crossing proves the boats exist, which some here denied. Some also wouldmtvbelieve one crossed the Atlantic. Some dont believe the battery capacities. Wait a minute...it was only a few of the resident trolls who didnt.

catalinajack said:

Why are you so defensive about your boat choices? You, sir, obviously, have the best boat, best systems, best of everything, nothing could be improved or work better. And, other folks choices, well, they are just ill-informed at best. Prove it! Really? That's a helpful response? I guess when you have nothing helpful to offer .....

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Im not defensive about my boat choices. In fact I dont have one of those boats,,but pointed them out as examples of electric/hybrid boats, to guys that didnt know they existed. Then when they found out they did, tried to say the companies were lying, etc. And a few tried to deny that litiuum ion battery packs of those capacities could fit on boats of the size mentioned. And they denied it even though they have no idea of the dimensions of them.

Its quite common in such groups that a few trolls show up. Now that ive recognized some of them by name, and stopped wasting time on them, they say they will ignore ME, now. Good, now ill just respond to serious interlocutors.

I can really appreciate what folks have done on their big boats but understand I have a AT34 with limited space.
I am trying to find someone with experience using a microwave/convection oven to compliment a 2 burner induction stove top.

On a 30amp boat, can I use both burners and the microwave/convection oven at the same time? I have a 6KW gen and not ashamed to use it

I have read one valid observation for converting to or keeping a LP stove. One can turn on all the burner and use the oven at the same time. I had never thought about that possibility. Maybe in my next life. SHRUG

OldDan1943 said:

I can really appreciate what folks have done on their big boats but understand I have a AT34 with limited space.
I am trying to find someone with experience using a microwave/convection oven to compliment a 2 burner induction stove top.

On a 30amp boat, can I use both burners and the microwave/convection oven at the same time? I have a 6KW gen and not ashamed to use it

I have read one valid observation for converting to or keeping a LP stove. One can turn on all the burner and use the oven at the same time. I had never thought about that possibility.

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One I just looked up used 1550 total watts (950 micro so I assume 600 electric element).


So that and an average water heater put you close (26 amps or so)....don't know the wattage of your burners but most likely not both on high, maybe both on low or if one is very small.

We chose a Miele convection/grill/microwave combo, rated at 2kw max. It fits into a standard 600x450mm slot easily.
That might work for you also? I could check, if it is also available in a 60Hz version.

OldDan1943 said:

I can really appreciate what folks have done on their big boats but understand I have a AT34 with limited space.
I am trying to find someone with experience using a microwave/convection oven to compliment a 2 burner induction stove top.

On a 30amp boat, can I use both burners and the microwave/convection oven at the same time? I have a 6KW gen and not ashamed to use it

I have read one valid observation for converting to or keeping a LP stove. One can turn on all the burner and use the oven at the same time. I had never thought about that possibility.

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2000 watts and 2 burners....probably not...but there are less wattage combo units.

OldDan1943 said:

I can really appreciate what folks have done on their big boats but understand I have a AT34 with limited space.
I am trying to find someone with experience using a microwave/convection oven to compliment a 2 burner induction stove top.

On a 30amp boat, can I use both burners and the microwave/convection oven at the same time? I have a 6KW gen and not ashamed to use it

I have read one valid observation for converting to or keeping a LP stove. One can turn on all the burner and use the oven at the same time. I had never thought about that possibility. Maybe in my next life. SHRUG

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Yes, with gas you can turn on everything at the same time, but....we know that people seldom do that on boats, just as most of us hardly ever do that in houses. So its basically a non issue. Most modern boats get induction stoves because people think theyre safer. (But nobody in this thread has been able to prove it one way or the other)

David Ess said:

Yes, with gas you can turn on everything at the same time, but....we know that people seldom do that on boats, just as most of us hardly ever do that in houses. So its basically a non issue. Most modern boats get induction stoves because people think theyre safer. (But nobody in this thread has been able to prove it one way or the other)

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Induction stove safer? Cant burn you hands as you can with an electric coil burner. LOL

Am I thinking wrong when I say, the only difference between a "stand alone" 2000watt inverter and a "stand alone" 2500watt inverter is, the 2500watt inverter sucks harder on the battery, drawing the voltage and amperage down faster? So if I never need more than 2000watts, there is no need for a larger inverter?

OldDan1943 said:

I can really appreciate what folks have done on their big boats but understand I have a AT34 with limited space.
I am trying to find someone with experience using a microwave/convection oven to compliment a 2 burner induction stove top.

On a 30amp boat, can I use both burners and the microwave/convection oven at the same time? I have a 6KW gen and not ashamed to use it

I have read one valid observation for converting to or keeping a LP stove. One can turn on all the burner and use the oven at the same time. I had never thought about that possibility.

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I was in a similar situation to you when I bought my boat. I was convinced that I wanted to switch the oven / stovetop to propane. There was already a vented locker, the propane tubing run was simple and straightforward, and the boat manufacturer had selected sizing that would easily accommodate a propane or electric oven.

Ultimately I chose not to convert to propane, not for any perceived safety reason, but because I almost never use the oven or cooktop. Almost all my cooking is on a propane grill on the upper deck. Between that, a microwave and a Nespresso coffeemaker, I have almost no use for the oven or stove top.

Good friends of mine love to cook and probably couldn't survive without a 3 or 4 burner cooktop and oven. So I guess you figure out how important the added performance of a gas stove is, or adapt to what you have.

Now when it comes to grilling, propane seems to be the choice if you're not running the generator 24/7.

Ted

OldDan1943 said:

Induction stove safer? Cant burn you hands as you can with an electric coil burner. LOL

Am I thinking wrong when I say, the only difference between a "stand alone" 2000watt inverter and a "stand alone" 2500watt inverter is, the 2500watt inverter sucks harder on the battery, drawing the voltage and amperage down faster? So if I never need more than 2000watts, there is no need for a larger inverter?

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Dashew began writing about moving from propane to induction back in 2009 when induction stove tops were dang expensive. It has been a hot topic in the sailing community for the past 5 years at least as lithium and solar have become more accessible. It's also gaining a ton of traction in the RV community.

While induction is definitely safer than an exposed heating coil or flame, that's not the reason people cite for going to induction. It's much faster, much more energy efficient, and for full time global cruisers, removes or reduces need to refill propane bottles. I forget which sailing channel I was recently watching, but they had two sets of bottles aboard for the different countries they are traveling in.

As far as fire related safety, BoatUS statistics cite that stove related fires have reduced dramatically over the years. The reason they provide is alcohol stoves have been replaced with electric and propane stoves. Their stats still show that 2% of boat fires are related to cooking appliances (including BBQs, which would include gas, charcoal, and electric). Of that 2%, well over half are still caused by alcohol stoves. The tiny fraction that remain would be scattered amongst other cooking appliances, including BBQs (gas, charcoal, and electric). BoatUS statistics do not cite a difference in safety between gas and electric stoves. Given the size of their insurance business, that is a significant omission.

Peter

David Ess said:

Yes, with gas you can turn on everything at the same time, but....we know that people seldom do that on boats, just as most of us hardly ever do that in houses. So its basically a non issue. Most modern boats get induction stoves because people think theyre safer. (But nobody in this thread has been able to prove it one way or the other)

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Yes, most boaters...but liveaboards often use one or two burners with the oven on and some reports here are that many marine electric stove/ovens can't do that.


Just like cooking at home, some people mostly eat out...my friends all are to poor to do that...including my boating friends. So simultaneous oven and burner use is common.


Can I prove anything one way or the other? Not sure anyone can but just good old experience makes one lean one way or the other.

Some facts about ei stoves:

Cook Faster, Healthier, Safer, and Smarter with Induction
Faster: An induction stovetop heats up 30% faster than a commercial gas stovetop.

Healthier: Gas stoves release toxic chemicals from both the gas that hisses out when you light the stove and the gas that burns while you cook. Even if you use the stove vent, a gas stove still reduces the air quality in your home. Many studies have found a 32% increased risk of asthma among children in homes where gas is used for cooking.

Safer: You can put your hand directly on the burner while it’s cooking and not get burned. (Though the pot will get hot!) When there’s no pan on the burner, nothing gets hot. No one can cause a fire or explosion by leaving the burner on by mistake.

Better Control: From frying at 375° to warming chocolate sauce at 110°, induction controls temperature with greater precision than gas.

More Efficient: Induction stoves use 30 to 50% less energy and release fewer emissions than gas stoves.

Easier to clean: An induction stovetop is smooth and easy to wipe clean. With no burners, nothing gets burned onto the surface.

Cooler: A gas or regular electric stove heats the air as well as the pot, making you swelter. Induction stoves only heat the pot and the food.

psneeld said:

Yes, most boaters...but liveaboards often use one or two burners with the oven on and some reports here are that many marine electric stove/ovens can't do that.

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Those 'reports' are...that they dont have enough power capacity on their boats. Boats that DO have, can.

To me, the advantage of induction cooking, I think I can cook just as much with 2 burners as I could with 3 burners because of speed. IF I change to an induction stove top, I still need to find a good convection/microwave combo. AND everything has to dance together on the boat.

SMILE Rich or poor some of us just like to cook at home/boat. We dont have to shower and put on underwear and pants and and. Sometimes we just cook better. SMILE Example: I cant get them to cook my eggs and bacon or sausage and potatoes the way I want. The exception is Waffle House. They can make a perfect breakfast, 24 hrs a day.
I can prepare lobster tails at 1/2 the price of a restaurant allowing me to have an extra lobster tail at home.
I could go on with the various menus but, I wont.
Eating breakfast while in your jammies is a nice way to start the day.
Plus my Vietnamese lady is learning how to cook western. She went home for a visit and impressed them with the skills she learned.
Her parents were here for a month and I made them meals.... although they did like my lobster tails a little bit too much. LOL I had to cut them off after 3 meals of lobster tails.
Yen's mama liked to sit at the table and observe my cooking skills and both parents really enjoyed the new cuisine of cooking without rice. WINK

Oh man.....this thread was almost back on track.

David, I know you want to talk about your latest boat-crush, a Unicorn of a vessel with a 150kw generator and 15kva inverter (gulp and double gulp!). It's not that anyone is denying it exists, it's just that it's so exotic that it's just not relevant to the folks on a forum such as this with people who actually own boats, with the average likely falling in the 45-foot range. Around here, $300k is a pretty expensive boat, and a gold-plater is above $800k or so. Roughly 400-600AH house battery banks are the most common, with 6kw-12kw generators aboard.

Don't take it so personally. Its just you're in the wrong place to discuss these concept boats. Someday they will become more mainstream. But that day isn't today, and the venue for discussion isn't a thread on gas vs electric cooking.

I'm sure you consider yourself a disruptor. I think most consider it disruptive which is too bad. It's an interesting concept boat and deserves its own thread. But please, just because you want to talk about it, don't barge every conversation, respond to every response.

This isn't about you.

Peter

PS - I know you're reading this, even though you said you wouldn't

OldDan1943 said:

SMILE Rich or poor some of us just like to cook at home/boat. We dont have to shower and put on underwear and pants and and. Sometimes we just cook better. SMILE Example: I cant get them to cook my eggs and bacon or sausage and potatoes the way I want. The exception is Waffle House. They can make a perfect breakfast, 24 hrs a day.
I can prepare lobster tails at 1/2 the price of a restaurant allowing me to have an extra lobster tail at home.
I could go on with the various menus but, I wont.
Eating breakfast while in your jammies is a nice way to start the day.
Plus my Vietnamese lady is learning how to cook western. She went home for a visit and impressed them with the skills she learned.
Her parents were here for a month and I made them meals.... although they did like my lobster tails a little bit too much. LOL I had to cut them off after 3 meals of lobster tails.

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Good move...get a boat and an asian girl to cook, etc!

David Ess said:

Those 'reports' sre...that they dont have enough power capacity on their boats. Boats that DO have, can.

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To have the power you are discussing...not many boats owned here really are set up for it or have the deck space for enough solar without looking like the space station. The comment earlier about a boat with 4kW worth of solar in my mind is comical. I have trouble finding room for more than 400W....and many cruisers here are even smaller.



It's cheaper and simpler to go propane all too often.


As batteries, electrical systems, solar panels and cooking methods advance...sure, going that direction may be inevitable.


But for now, for a guy who is immersed in boating at many levels...I just don't see it as common, or evenly commonly discussed amongst long distance cruisers.


Sure they are out there like electric or hybrid vehicles..and now Ford and GM are ramping up big time...but looking at any parking lots (like marinas) the future is still out there...not quite here yet.

My two-burner induction cooktop is 1,800 watts, total. One burner can draw 1,800 watts, the other 1,300 watts but, when used together, the total does not exceed 1,800.

psneeld said:

One I just looked up used 1550 total watts (950 micro so I assume 600 electric element).


So that and an average water heater put you close (26 amps or so)....don't know the wattage of your burners but most likely not both on high, maybe both on low or if one is very small.

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David Ess said:

Good move...get a boat and an asian girl to cook, etc!

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No no no, I cook!!! She watches and learns.
On the boat, if I wish to eat while while wearing jammies or being naked, I can do that, dont try that at a restaurant.

Per the electric and or hybrid boat crossing the ocean; they did not confess the number of engineers and spare parts they had on board. Nor did they confess on any problems they had.
Now that is my final comment on these boats.

catalinajack said:

My two-burner induction cooktop is 1,800 watts, total. One burner can draw 1,800 watts, the other 1,300 watts but, when used together, the total does not exceed 1,800.

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OK....2kW plus 1800 equals what? I was ponting out how close running just about any convection microwave and 2 burners will be on a single 30A powered boat....if choosing a microwave convection combo...a 2kW unit would be pushing it or past any margin.


The reason I upgraded to 50A 125/250V service as a live aboard would be so that power management would be more of an afterthought than constantly chasing popped breakers.