Change electric stove, install gas stove

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David Ess said:
Didnt even mention prices, but bogus point anyway since many million dollar + boats are sold. If you cant afford a Hinckley, or Alva, or Silent, or any of all those others, thats your problem, not the tech, or the companies that make them.
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All I can find on the boats you mention are a Hinckley runabout. Neither Alva nor Silent appear to have manufactured any boats. Links to cruising boats ?
 
David Ess said:
The discussion was about that its posioble to put such battey pacs in, and the answer is ...yes. And the numbers of hybrid/electric boats is increasing, be they cruising ones, ferry boats, tug boats or the hige super yachts. That huge 'Yacht A' is a hybrid. Its more a mattercof some guys in this forum just not being familiar woth the topic.
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But do they work as a cruising vessel?
Given the silent 55 example you produced, the answer is no.
 
Simi 60 said:
Can pick dozens of far more capable and proven "real world" cruisers than that one that would leave over a million in the cruising kitty to pay for running and maintenance.

Very piss poor performance (or lack of)



A long way from being anything like a cruising vessel in my eyes.

What happens when they decide to use the watermaker or heaven forbid....electric cooker
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Misleading. You didnt mention that it has 10Kw of solar panels, charging huge battery banks. And, you dont always run with aircon on, or not in all rooms, same with water maker. Scenario: middle of the Pacific ocean, the Silent 55 and your boat...neither with andy diesel left. The Silent will still go 100 miles a day.
 
Dear David Ess - you are a right-fighter. What is a right-fighter? It is someone to whom it is more important that they be right than correct. Someone who will defend their position against all reason and adversity. Someone who views the world as a zero-sum-game: the biggest expression of being right is that someone else must be wrong.

Example: not enough that you prefer electric to gas, but anyone who disagrees must be wrong - and you cherry pick in an infantile way to support your thin hypothesis.

Example: not enough that all agree that hybrids exist, but anyone who does not agree that they are prolific and common is wrong

Example: not enough that no one blindly accepts what you do about massive battery banks in a boat or that the numbers simply don't make sense. You chide people - quite knowledgeable people that they are wrong and that they don't know what their talking about.

You talk in terms of people conceding points to you or defacto agreeing with you. At best, people are tired of listening to you and simply give up. Your mind is made up and your ears are closed.

I, for one, will no longer feed this annoying troll. David, you were successful in having your very first thread shut-down and deleted based on your insolent online behavior. It will happen again sooner or later. All I can say is goodbye - any thread you are a part of is off limits to me. People on this forum often have disagreements - I have had spats with some on this very thread. But none have been as disagreeable, pompous, arrogant, and ignorant as you. You think you know what you're talking about but you don't

In my thinking, ignoring a troll is the only option here. Hasta la vista David.

Peter
 
mvweebles said:
Dear David Ess - you are a right-fighter. What is a right-fighter? It is someone to whom it is more important that they be right than correct. Someone who will defend their position against all reason and adversity. Someone who views the world as a zero-sum-game: the biggest expression of being right is that someone else must be wrong.

Example: not enough that you prefer electric to gas, but anyone who disagrees must be wrong - and you cherry pick in an infantile way to support your thin hypothesis.

Example: not enough that all agree that hybrids exist, but anyone who does not agree that they are prolific and common is wrong

Example: not enough that no one blindly accepts what you do about massive battery banks in a boat or that the numbers simply don't make sense. You chide people - quite knowledgeable people that they are wrong and that they don't know what their talking about.

You talk in terms of people conceding points to you or defacto agreeing with you. At best, people are tired of listening to you and simply give up. Your mind is made up and your ears are closed.

I, for one, will no longer feed this annoying troll. David, you were successful in having your very first thread shut-down and deleted based on your insolent online behavior. It will happen again sooner or later. All I can say is goodbye - any thread you are a part of is off limits to me. People on this forum often have disagreements - I have had spats with some on this very thread. But none have been as disagreeable, pompous, arrogant, and ignorant as you. You think you know what you're talking about but you don't

In my thinking, ignoring a troll is the only option here. Hasta la vista David.

Peter
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I didnt even say those things you attribute to me...like..."not enough people agree with me ,so theyre wrong". You wont find any such quote from me. I challenge you to. troll? Oh the irony.
 
David Ess said:
Misleading. You didnt mention that it has 10Kw of solar panels, charging huge battery banks. And, you dont always run with aircon on, or not in all rooms, same with water maker.
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Not misleading at all, I posted a link to the article and posted all the performance details

Scenario: middle of the Pacific ocean, the Silent 55 and your boat...neither with andy diesel left. The Silent will still go 100 miles a day.
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Misleading
It wont get to the middle of the Pacific ocean, the article itself states that.....
At an average 4-knot pace with the watermaker aboard, she’s virtually self-sustaining, Kohler says. She has the potential to achieve 100-nautical-mile days. With generator help at around 7 knots, she should manage 360 nautical miles before refilling her diesel tanks, which hold 159 gallons total.
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360nm is a long way from the middle of the Pacific ocean and anyway, what sort of fool would run out of fuel in the middle of the Pacific?

Guessing it may be you thinking that you wont need diesel, the sun shines every day and you never need to use that electric stove or watermaker ;)
 
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Hybrid trawlers seem to be a solution in search of a problem. Unlike cars (where there can be some braking energy recovery), a boat takes constant power for long periods of time. A pure hybrid would generate electricity then turn that into shaft horsepower at a net loss of at least 20% of the energy for long periods of time. An automobile-like hybrid (which drives the wheels directly from the ICE much of the time bypassing the hybrid feature) would require expensive additional equipment that would seldom be of much use.

The sailboat community has been experimenting with this for some time, having the advantage of an alternative source of propulsion, but other than some daysailers it has not taken off. There have been a few high profile attempts by production builders, all have failed and many of those boats converted back to diesel auxiliary. Even if the needed 10x improvement in battery technology appears, the charging problem remains.

I'd suggest beginning work on an anti-matter fuel cell. At about 25 teraWh/kg, a few grams would last the life of the boat.
 
and to think, this started out on the benefits of changing the fuel source to the stove. LOL
Thread drift, thread drift.
 
Simi 60 said:
Not misleading at all, I posted a link to the article and posted all the performance details


Misleading
It wont get to the middle of the Pacific ocean, the article itself states that.....



360nm is a long way from the middle of the Pacific ocean and anyway, what sort of fool would run out of fuel in the middle of the Pacific?

Guessing it may be you thinking that you wont need diesel, the sun shines every day and you never need to use that electric stove or watermaker ;)
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You missed the point...its a scenario...one in which the electric boat will still go 100 miles a day...yours wont.
 
Publix has facilities to plug in electric car. Maybe soon, electric boats can motor out and plug into wind farm?
 
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OldDan1943 said:
and to think, this started out on the benefits of changing the fuel source to the stove. LOL
Thread drift, thread drift.
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Yes, and way above I had already given a summary, which is that nobody can prove which is stove is safer. And I could be lying that ive read reports of more new boats installing them.
 
DDW said:
Hybrid trawlers seem to be a solution in search of a problem. Unlike cars (where there can be some braking energy recovery), a boat takes constant power for long periods of time. A pure hybrid would generate electricity then turn that into shaft horsepower at a net loss of at least 20% of the energy for long periods of time. An automobile-like hybrid (which drives the wheels directly from the ICE much of the time bypassing the hybrid feature) would require expensive additional equipment that would seldom be of much use.

The sailboat community has been experimenting with this for some time, having the advantage of an alternative source of propulsion, but other than some daysailers it has not taken off. There have been a few high profile attempts by production builders, all have failed and many of those boats converted back to diesel auxiliary. Even if the needed 10x improvement in battery technology appears, the charging problem remains.

I'd suggest beginning work on an anti-matter fuel cell. At about 25 teraWh/kg, a few grams would last the life of the boat.
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Those more and more companies building them claim reductions like 25...30% fuel savings.
 
David Ess said:
Those more and more companies building them claim reductions like 25...30% fuel savings.
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Sure, they could all be lying, so more and more feel like building them and lying to....like thiscnew Norwegian one......."2190 HYBRID FISHING BOAT
The market’s “smartest” yarn boat. With the electric hybrid propulsion solution, you reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 25% and runtime on diesel engines by as much as 75%. This significantly improves the working environment on board. The boat has energy-efficient heating through heat recovery from the diesel generators ."
 
David Ess said:
Those more and more companies building them claim reductions like 25...30% fuel savings.
Click to expand...


In some use cases, there's definitely potential for that. But in many others, there's very little advantage.

For the previously mentioned wind farm service boats, it makes sense. For someone cruising inland canals / rivers with fairly short distances per day and often having shore power overnight, it makes sense. For someone who just takes short day trips (particularly if they don't want/need a fast boat) and might stay out overnight occasionally, but doesn't really travel, it may make sense.

But for the person who wants a flexible boat that can go anywhere and have good range between stops, lots of storage, etc. other options just make more sense currently. That will likely change at some point as technology changes, but we haven't reached that point yet.

And don't forget, the vast majority of boat owners don't own multi-million dollar boats. Most don't even own boats worth $300k. So it'll be a while before the price drops enough on the hybrid and electric stuff to the point where more than a small portion of boat owners could even consider it.
 
David Ess said:
You missed the point...its a scenario...one in which the electric boat will still go 100 miles a day...yours wont.
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You missed the point

I have the ability to control my fuel load so wont run out of diesel anywhere, let alone the middle of the pacific

You don't control the sun, so you will lose the ability to go anywhere on less than perfectly sunny days or days you have no diesel.

You have also lost the ability to use your watermaker or cook food any time you actually want to make miles.
 
Permit me please a comment.
For the 'talking price' of $10,000 or $20,000 to install the electrical system to support more batteries, I can buy more AGM batteries, to use in my boat, than I can use in a life time. Yes, yes, as the various technologies are developed and improved the price will come down, not in my life time.
Oh by the way, I am still looking for my personal hover craft as talked about in Popular Mechanics.
 
Simi 60 said:
You missed the point

I have the ability to control my fuel load so wont run out of diesel anywhere, let alone the middle of the pacific

You don't control the sun, so you will lose the ability to go anywhere on less than perfectly sunny days or days you have no diesel.

You have also lost the ability to use your watermaker or cook food any time you actually want to make miles.
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Oh how I wish we could do the experiment mentioned in the scenario. In fact , at least one of the Silent yachts(that some of you guys deny exist, even though you can already buy some used ones), DID cross the Atlantic already...in stormy weather, with no sun..and still made it. But again, some of you are not up to date on the topic, so wouldnt know that.
 
David Ess said:
In fact , at least one of the Silent yachts(that some of you guys deny exist, even though you can already buy some used ones), DID cross the Atlantic already...in stormy weather, with no sun..and still made it. But again, some of you are not up to date on the topic, so wouldnt know that.
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No sun, no diesel in stormy weather and on its own bottom?
Of course you will have a link to confirm this right?
 
All this over making a cup of hot coffee.
 
Motorboat & Yacht video review of Silent 55. Interesting concept. I like the hard-top that drops down to cover the flybridge. In its current iteration, I don't see it as more than a short range cruiser, but that's how vast majority of people use their boat.

Note, it has a 100kw generator, though the 64-footer has a 150kw generator!!! (yowser!!). At the end of the video review, the MBY reviewer kindly states several open questions on performance, including whether it will actually run self-sufficiently at 7-kts with the solar when the sun is shining. Given the earlier view of the battery remaining and speed, the numbers really don't add-up so I suspect not, but it does look like a nice boat.

Best I can tell, the founders of the company did a challenge-project in 2009 with a 46-footer to cross the Atlantic. I don't think there is much info besides the unsupported statements of their marketing department. That said, it's an impressive effort - someone has to take the first step. In a few years time, hopefully this technology will be more viable. I cannot imagine the cost to replace batteries, transfer switches, and 150kw generator - would put repowering a pair of 3208's to shame.

 
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mvweebles said:
Motorboat & Yacht video review of Silent 55. Interesting concept. I like the hard-top that drops down to cover the flybridge. In its current iteration, I don't see it as more than a short range cruiser, but that's how vast majority of people use their boat.

Note, it has a 100kw generator, though the 64-footer has a 150kw generator!!! (yowser!!)

Best I can tell, the founders of the company did a challenge-project in 2009 with a 46-footer to cross the Atlantic. I don't think there is much info besides the unsupported statements of their marketing department. That said, it's an impressive effort - someone has to take the first step. In a few years time, hopefully this technology will be more viable.

Click to expand...

NOT a concept , some exist, and as you keep researching youll find at least one already crossed the Atlantic, in bad weather, with no. sun. The later ones are even better, now direct drive, no gears even. Certification, CE-A...the highest the E U has.
 
Yikes! A similar boat ran out of battery capacity within 100 miles, even with full sunlight. Several shorts and even a small fire in the generator when the owner tried to cook a turkey in the electric oven. One owner is filing a lawsuit for damages and false claims and has specifically ordered the electric range be replaced with propane!

Sorry, I can't find the reference - you'll have to take my word for it.

Peter
 
David Ess said:
As we've seen, youre unfamiliar...it had a gemset.
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Post the link or it didn't happen.

Remember, you claim no sun , not once but twice now, so obviously it used genset
Specs say they carry enough fuel to generate 300 miles approx, far from enough to cross the Atlantic

David Ess said:
NOT a concept , some exist, and as you keep researching youll find at least one already crossed the Atlantic, in bad weather, with no. sun.
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