N41

Anyone interested in the new N41 may want to read my short post On the Nordhavn Dreamers site about seeing hull number one today in DP.

N4061 said:

Anyone interested in the new N41 may want to read my short post On the Nordhavn Dreamers site about seeing hull number one today in DP.

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Why don't you copy/paste and post it here as well?

I don't even know what DP is....I agree with Menzies....feeling stupid newbie here.

Sailor of Fortune said:

I don't even know what DP is....I agree with Menzies....feeling stupid newbie here.

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Yes, probably makes absolutely zero sense to the vast majority on here.

It's Dana Point. Nordhavn's HQ in the US.

No idea why the OP is pushing TF members to another forum to read his post rather than posting it here?

Revised Post

Well it appears I took to much for granted on my simple post about the N41 so let’s try this again.
Today Mary and I decided to drive to Dana Point, CA. where the Nordhavn corporate office is located for a walk around the harbor. While we knew the the first two N41 hulls were inbound we didn’t know the boats arrived. As we rounded the PAE corporate office I immediately spotted what appeared to be the new N41 docked only a few slips from a N40. From the stern view I had a good comparison of both boats and could see both the beam and height differences. As we walked the dock I could see the difference in bow height and the narrow hull shape of the new N41. The PH windows of the new N41 are similar to the coastal cruiser and found on most newer boats. The exterior design is all Nordhavn but slimmer and less beefy. The narrow beam and two side decks make for a smaller salon but functional for a weekend. The boat offers modern new lines and looks great. A view inside through the salon windows confirms (as best I could tell) fit and finish similar to China built boats. Nice wood work from what I could see. Well done PAE.

John T
N4050, N4061, N3522, Helmsman 38E

Wow I looked at the 40’ as a live aboard. Now you say the 41’ salon is ok for the weekend.

The N40 interior and N41 are totally two different layouts and different boats. The N40 with its wider beam and full width salon is much larger and provides a better option as a live aboard. You also have the PH as an additional room with great views. Look closely at both and compare for yourself. For some the new N41 will work better but it depends on your requirements and how you plan to use the boat 90% of the time. I’m still a big fan of every Nordhavn built and sharing my thoughts so don’t get discouraged and keep researching which model works for you.

John T

40 or 41 ft Nordhavn, I can adapt.

I know a couple who live and cruise full time on an N35 and met another that spent six months a year cruising on one. Many Downeast style boats like Sabre, Back Cove, East Bay, etc have comparable dimensions and layout and they function fine for living aboard for the many that I’ve run across. I’ve met several liveaboards on Nordic and American Tugs as well. Thousands of people live and cruise full time on sailboats.

Getting hung up on a single variable like beam and pronouncing a boat either unsuitable or superior for a given purpose is myopic. Any boat has to looked upon as a total package, evaluating the inevitable trade offs that best suit each buyer.

The decreased beam should allow for a better prismatic coefficient and better mpg. But the other features seem more aimed at long hop coastal cruising. The increased beam on the 40 should increase form stability and weight should have less effect on performance parameters. The 40 seems more aimed at voyaging.
Think if your program is long hops up and down a coast with passages no longer than 3-4 days the 41 is a better boat imho.. Think the 40 can handle the extra loaded weight involved in longer transits better.
Please note the above impressions make no mention of livable space or quality of life at anchor. Even Nordhavns are mostly used in a near shore or coastal settings. Believe the new boat is aimed at those folks. A step between the difficult to plane 35 and the 43. Think it will be 41 then 475 for the future.

The N41 is huge for those of us who've spent sea time on a 40' SV. Early sales of the N41 indicate motivated buyers. For us and others. the utter simplicity of the N41 may well be a draw.

Hippocampus,
The Norhavns were never intended to plane. The smaller ones are 8 kit boats so, overloading it with HP is, IMO, a waste of HP and unnecessary increase of weight and wasted fuel. The advantage is fuel efficiency ..... and interior space.
Of course we should also consider ER accessibility.
Oh foolish me, I am still not sold on a 2 engine trawler. My N46 had one engine and a get-home. I was more than happy.

OD understood was just talking about the early 35s and the need to jump up HP which was done in the later ones.
Agree with you about single engine except in much narrower boats like the Artnautica. Here given the very small hp requirements at cruise might as well have a second engine as a get home isn’t that much less hp.
The dreamers site has nteresting conversations about the 41 worth the read.

Hippocampus said:

OD understood was just talking about the early 35s and the need to jump up HP which was done in the later ones.
Agree with you about single engine except in much narrower boats like the Artnautica. Here given the very small hp requirements at cruise might as well have a second engine as a get home isn’t that much less hp.
The dreamers site has nteresting conversations about the 41 worth the read.

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Hippocampus, yes the get-home on my N46 was, oh my failing memory, less than 30hp. It was enough to get you back to help. I would hate to try to do an inlet except in slack tide.
I think my main engine on my N46 was about 120hp. More than enough.
The weak point of my N46 was a 'too small' bow thruster. I fixed that (grin) Went for a 3hp to a 12 hp.

Please provide the site for the N41 discussion. Some people just dont deserve a Norhavn. LOL

Side note: Nordhavn has retired many models. I wonder what they did with the hull molds.

In a smaller boat, 2 of the same might be easier to fit than a bigger single and small wing engine. Assuming the twins are well sized (and not the old way of putting in a second already big enough engine), the fuel burn penalty compared to a single + wing is likely very small.

Plus, if the N41 is targeted more at coastal work, the extra maneuverability gets used more often, and there's likely more time spent negotiating inlets, crowded areas, narrow channels, etc.

In those cases, having your backup engine already running makes things a lot less stressful if you have an issue requiring a shutdown. With nothing around me for miles, shut down, drift or anchor for a few minutes, work the problem, start wing engine if needed, continue isn't a big deal. But somewhere crowded, it's much nicer to just continue at reduced speed and then deal with the problem when it's reasonable to do so.

Reliefkin, do not forget, with a single engine, you have the prop protected by the skeg. No so in a twin.
As I remember, the get-home was a 3 cylinder, separated but unprotected shaft.
With a folding prop on the get-home, backing up is a matter of timing. Gotta go forward to get the prop unfolded and then a quick reverse to keep the prop in place, just like a sailboat.

True, although at displacement speeds I bet there's not much penalty for cutting the keel down and building in twin skegs to protect the props like some twin screw tug boats.

Nordhavn Dreamers. There’s several threads. Also some lovely pictures and words about TT’s masterpiece.

To be honest, if someone wants to give me a N40 or N41, I will be happy with either.

Nordhavn has just released sea trial data showing the 41 has 1,300 to 1,500 nm range at 8 knots and 4 gph. Slow down to 6 knots and range is about 3,000 nm at 6 knots and 1.7 gph. Over 25 new N41s are reserved.

Ah yes 25 new N41 reserved.
That tells me, if I ordered one today, I would be dead before they started on my boat. SHRUG.

N4061 said:

The N40 interior and N41 are totally two different layouts and different boats. The N40 with its wider beam and full width salon is much larger and provides a better option as a live aboard. You also have the PH as an additional room with great views. Look closely at both and compare for yourself. For some the new N41 will work better but it depends on your requirements and how you plan to use the boat 90% of the time. I’m still a big fan of every Nordhavn built and sharing my thoughts so don’t get discouraged and keep researching which model works for you.

John T

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I just watched a YouTube video of the N41. They have gone a completely different direction with them. No fly bridge anymore and while the stateroom setup is fairly similar one big difference is the engine room is now accessed from the salon via a deck hatch. It might have the same ballpark footage but if I was going to buy one I’d be looking at a n40. It’s also a twin engine boat. Honestly it looks more like a Selene trawler.

Jmk2000 said:

I just watched a YouTube video of the N41. They have gone a completely different direction with them. No fly bridge anymore and while the stateroom setup is fairly similar one big difference is the engine room is now accessed from the salon via a deck hatch. It might have the same ballpark footage but if I was going to buy one I’d be looking at a n40. It’s also a twin engine boat. Honestly it looks more like a Selene trawler.

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Can you share the YT link?

There are those who say Nordhavn's have always been twin engine boats, but I certainly get your point.

Peter

Been shopping N40/43. Nearly none are used for blue water passage. But nearly all are used for long hop coastal or near shore passages. Where we’re shopping the usual program is snowbirding along the the US/Canadian east coast. Bahamas to Canada. Not straight shots to the leewards or doing the North Atlantic gyre nor eastern Med to eastern Caribbean. The new N475 is set up for open ocean blue water passage imho. For passagemaking I think that’s the preferred small Nordhavn in their current line up. Think this vessel(n475) is the real replacement of the N40/43. The N41 is set up to serve the actual way N40 owners use their boats except for a small few. The 41 will also be attractive to the N35 crowd. It’s a excellent vessel and would be totally delighted to have a 41. But if we hit the lottery it’s a 475 that would be ordered.

mvweebles said:

Can you share the YT link?

There are those who say Nordhavn's have always been twin engine boats, but I certainly get your point.
Peter

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Best guess, the Ns have always been a single engine until buyers insisted on 2.
My N46 was a single engine with a get home.
Now that N have entered the 'big boy' league, I think they are all 2 engines.

I have not seen it in person, but looks like a cool boat from the pics and video. Personally, I would like more interior living space for this size class, but + and - for every boat.

Regarding the twin engine maneuverability aspect for docking etc, I wonder how it will pivot with a deep keel? IE, compared to a flatter SD hull with less keel.

It also appears the engines/props are spaced fairly close together which would also have an effect.

Anyone piloted a boat of similar design that can offer an opinion who has first hand experience?

Incorporating Twins

Old Dan - It may come down to the price of the larger, single engine vs. the smaller twins. Emissions certifications have changed the math.

The below is from Dan Streech, and was posted on the Nordhavn Dreamers email list on 01/08/19:

“This brings us to the Beta which Jim found and which has consistently been the suggested engine for the several small Nordhavn designs which you have seen recently. Being under 100 HP, these engines are held to slightly lower emissions standards and the designers used this to package a simple “mechanical” engine which is priced right and is perfect (as twins) for the N41.”

Well, the success of the N41 has spawned the N51. Twin JD 4045s and built in Turkey. PAE doesn't give up.

IRENE said:

Old Dan - It may come down to the price of the larger, single engine vs. the smaller twins. Emissions certifications have changed the math.

The below is from Dan Streech, and was posted on the Nordhavn Dreamers email list on 01/08/19:

“This brings us to the Beta which Jim found and which has consistently been the suggested engine for the several small Nordhavn designs which you have seen recently. Being under 100 HP, these engines are held to slightly lower emissions standards and the designers used this to package a simple “mechanical” engine which is priced right and is perfect (as twins) for the N41.”

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That makes sense. There's also some economy of scale to be gained from installing 2 of the same engines and transmissions, rather than 1 large and 1 small in each boat (for a main+wing).

I asked Jim why they stopped making the N46. He answered, 'no one was buying it anymore.'
Then, they start hunting around for a boat that would excite folks again.