Krogen Manatee - Seaworthy??

My wife and I are thinking of purchasing a Krogen Manatee 36 and we were wondering if anyone has any experiences, good or bad about how a Manatee handles rough weather? We understand that most trawlers are going to roll in a beam sea but we are a bit concerned about the windage and rounded hull. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

There is one in our marina but it never seems to go anywhere. Based solely on its appearance I wouldn't want to go anywhere in it eiither if I knew the weather was going to kick up.

But regardless of what it can or can't take we wouldn't have one because of the limited access around the outside of the boat. No side decks and no direct, fast, easy access between the fore and aft ends of the boat. In this area we believe both of those are extremely beneficial and we wouldn't have a boat without both of them.

In other boating regions they are perhaps not as important.

Seaworthy ?

If to you that means going out in blue water and taking what comes , no way.

If you mean how much will you get banged around in some open sound or bay when the wind kicks up to 45K and there is enough fetch?

The boat will survive , but with the top hamper increasing the motion , and no lower helm your ride will verge on exciting.

Perhaps excruciating.

FF

I know of a couple who have cruised the Great Loop and all the way down the Exuma chain with a Krogen Manatee. Just pick your days.

For a retired couple living aboard, the Manatee makes the best use of space I have seen. It should be fine for cruising between stopovers. Gobs of space on the main deck. The back porch is really good. Just pick your open water cruising days.

Here's a link that includes information on Manatees.

The Krogen FAQ Page

Just about every boat you see in people avatars that post in this forum (as long as they are maintained) are capable of extensive Caribbean cruising...including the Manatee. For the West coast... I'll leave it up to those with more experience out there for the where the biggest limitation is...but I doubt "no" is the absolute answer.

Yes the boat has to be in good shape and the skipper well seasoned...and many of these boats shouldn't plan on crossing a thousand miles of blue water...but several hundred between legs isn't out of the question with proper planning....including the Manatee.

psneeld said:

....but several hundred between legs isn't out of the question with proper planning....including the Manatee.

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I agree with this. Compared to some of the boats we see out on the water here doing just fine the Manatee is more than capable of cruising our inside waters. The weather forecasting here is quite good, at least in terms of what's going to happen if not always exactly when it's going to happen, and there are a bazillion places to duck into when the weather or water is not compatible with the boat (or its crew).

My dislike of the Manatee (beside its almost total lack of aesthetic appeal) is its lack of outside access. Up here with the type of docks we are typically using and the currents and winds we are sometimes using them in the Manatee's very limited and constricting access would be a real detriment, at least to us who are used to the advantages of a wide and full-walkaround main deck. One could certainly make it work after a fashion but with so many other types of boats available that don't pose the challenge, why bother? Unless interior volume was the most important criteria to a person, in which case the exterior limitations of the Manatee might be worth the trade-off.

But the best people to comment on the Manatee's pluses and minuses are the people who have them. There are a few on this forum so perhaps they will chime in and give an answer to the original poster's question based on actually operating the boat rather than assumptions based on what it looks like.

Marin said:

But regardless of what it can or can't take we wouldn't have one because of the limited access around the outside of the boat. No side decks and no direct, fast, easy access between the fore and aft ends of the boat. In this area we believe both of those are extremely beneficial and we wouldn't have a boat without both of them.

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Searched "Kincardine, Canada" and saw this photo on the Wikipedia site. Boat has less interior space than a Manatee, but it has pilothouse-accessible walk-around decks and would seem to be more seaworthy.

Probably would be considerable pounding in head seas but if the boat stays together it should not be considered unseaworthy My father pounded the windows out of a light plywood cruiser in Alaska but her lightness kept her on top out of serious trouble.
Barges are wide and flat and they take terrible poundings regularly up the PNW coast. Never heard of one lost. High beam to length ratios shouldn't mean unseaworthyness in itself but the seaworthiness issue is quite complex and seaworthiness issues are often just (or largely) discomfort. A wide flat boat may broach more easily (especially one w/o much keel) but the serious trouble comes from capsizing. That IS a seaworthiness issue.
The Manatee's bow won't help directional stability much but her full disp stern and fairly high Quarter Beam Buttock Lines will definitely put her ahead of MANY boats on this forum w flatter sterns and much lower QBBLs.
In certain beam sea conditions ther'e may be some fairly strong, quick and uncomfortable "snap" rolling motion from her wide beam and hard chine .... again ..... discomfort.
So I see the Manatee as a boat that is probably quite seaworthy but very uncomfortable at times in the nasty. I think your concern is probably greater than it needs to be. In rough stuff it would be very good to have a lower helm. But I've never set foot on a Manatee. Something that I personally think is a sizable pluss is that the Manatee IS a Krogen.
So there's some plusses and minuses

If the Manatee appeals to you and can control your exposure to wind and waves, then you might want to look at Benford's "Florida Bay Coasters". The home page has a rotating image that says that the 35' was the 2005 Trawler Fest "People's Choice - Best in Show", and there's a graphic in the corner saying "Now For Sale".

The smallest Florida Bay Coaster currently on www.yachtworld.com is a 45', so it might have sold.

I had a chance to tour a 60'-something Coaster in Camden back in the 90s - it was a very impressive vessel.

Marin said:

My dislike of the Manatee is its lack of outside access.

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This is the exact same argument I have with the Hatteras LRC. It might be very "seaworthy", but to tie up, you have to go thru the pilothouse, down thru the salon, and reach around the outside bulkhead to tie of the stern. Silly.

GonzoF1 said:

This is the exact same argument I have with the Hatteras LRC. It might be very "seaworthy", but to tie up, you have to go thru the pilothouse, down thru the salon, and reach around the outside bulkhead to tie of the stern. Silly.

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On big boats configured like that..often I have the lines rigged so after I get a spring on...I jump to the dock and pull the lines off with a boathook if I'm singlehandling so I don't have to run through the boat.

psneeld said:

...I jump to the dock ...

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Jump?! I'm only capable of stepping off.

I figure I'll quit junping around 80 yoa...if the knees last that long..

I think Eric (Manyboats) has a good handle on the capability of the Manatee. There are owners who have had these boats for 20 years or more, and that may say something to you. I've got caught in a 6 ft. short chop in an inlet about two years ago and this is exhausting after about an hour or so. The experienced Captain with me said the boat handled it much better than his own Hatteras 43, but this is not the kind of sea-state I'd recommend. In rollers off-shore, no problem. In a following sea, it's a thing of beauty. Beam seas find the boat initially resistant to roll, but sideways to one of those huge, speeding sport-fisher wakes will have you holding on for the first two hits. It's all relative.

The boat is not a blue-water design, but I say that principally for the occupants. I've already seen the the boat has no problems with conditions that I do have problems with. It's fat and has a low center of gravity. A con-caved bow entry helps with chop, and with a fully cored hull it's very quiet and devoid of the typical condensation problems. Marin has an important point about deck access for line handling, but at least here in the Southeast I've never found this a challenge.

On our short list of boats, we found the Manatee to have the least number of compromises for "us". The other boats on our list were powercats, mostly due to the shallow draft. The Manatees appreciated in value till the downturn in 2008, but have continue to demonstrate good investment value (if there is such a thing for a boat). I'm told that many of the very good ones never reach the classifieds.

Find a good hull first. A peal and re-glass job on a saturated hull would be big bucks.

Seaworthy?

I don't know how seaworthy they are. I wouldn't want to go outside in more than 15 knots in one, and that might be too much. What I have noticed in cruising from Cape Lookout to Melbourne, is that every single skipper who was in a Manatee drove it like a pure idiot. It could have been because of old age, or perhaps the fear of the crew, or just maybe they were having such a good time watching TV. Roomy boat, yes. Ugly too. Seaworthy I don't know.

Egregious said:

Ugly too.

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Havent' you ever heard the expression "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? I, for one, can appreciate a form-follows-function aspect to these boats. And it really makes me uncomfortable when a forum member criticizes other members' boats in that way.

"And it really makes me uncomfortable when a forum member criticizes other members' boats in that way.

The question does remain, what happens if a wave crashes aboard , sweeps the deck, or picks the boat up and tosses it on its side?

Offshore on a bad day requires contemplation of reality.

FF

I don't know where, when, how or why a lot of you guys cruise but I have been boating/professional mariner a long time and have friends that have cruised around the world many times and/or lots of blue water experience. Some of you make going out in the ocean as a death sentence. There's a huge difference in a hundred mile overnighter and an ocean crossing. You can get to a lot of cruising grounds with only or less than 100 miles of blue water to cross.

I have NEVER had a wave sweep the deck on a recreational cruise....check the weather reports. There's no such thing as "unexpected storms" and even "pop up thunderstorms" are reasonably predictable.

15 knots of wind too much for a Manatee....YA GOTTA BE KIDDING ME .....then it would be too much for most of our boats...which it's ...NOT....

You have to know your vessel's limits. Case in point, the ex-Washington State Ferry that operated on Puget Sound for 20 years. Then it ended up in service in the Indian Ocaen off Tanzania, where it just flipped in heavy winds, killing 31 (so far - there are another 100 passengers still missing):
Death toll rises to 31 in Tanzania ferry accident | Nation & World | The Seattle Times

refugio said:

You have to know your vessel's limits. Case in point, the ex-Washington State Ferry that operated on Puget Sound for 20 years. Then it ended up in service in the Indian Ocaen off Tanzania, where it just flipped in heavy winds, killing 31 (so far - there are another 100 passengers still missing):
Death toll rises to 31 in Tanzania ferry accident | Nation & World | The Seattle Times

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And probably more importantly than the vessel's...your own limits.

There are many examples of captains dealing with conditions with lesser boats and treating the voyage just like any other when captains of more capable ships are lost.

I run breaking inlets all the time...but I don't recommend that the average weekend captain do it...even in better suited craft.

psneeld said:

I don't know where, when, how or why a lot of you guys cruise but I have been boating/professional mariner a long time and have friends that have cruised around the world many times and/or lots of blue water experience. Some of you make going out in the ocean as a death sentence. There's a huge difference in a hundred mile overnighter and an ocean crossing. You can get to a lot of cruising grounds with only or less than 100 miles of blue water to cross.

I have NEVER had a wave sweep the deck on a recreational cruise....check the weather reports. There's no such thing as "unexpected storms" and even "pop up thunderstorms" are reasonably predictable.

15 knots of wind too much for a Manatee....YA GOTTA BE KIDDING ME .....then it would be too much for most of our boats...which it's ...NOT....

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Great post, and 100% correct!

Coastal cruising, even a very long coastal cruise is really a series of <=100 NM trips. Check the weather and make a prudent go/no go decision based on that.

Every single time my boat leaves the dock we're in the open ocean. 1 mile, or 30 miles from shore is the exact same conditions. 30 miles or 3,000 miles is the exact same distance since along a coast you're ducking into protected anchorages most every evening.

And...

15 knot winds are really just a little breeze, force 4. 6' swells max and those would be long duration swells at that. Piece of cake for any of the Bayliner boats I've owned from 24-47'.

Manatee and the walk around

All boats are different just like us on this forum. On our list of features we wanted in a boat, was that is was a WIDE BODY. That walk around may be required in locks, but like anything there is a work around. I love the larger salon and galley everyday that we have on our Vantare, and being live aboards, I mean everyday.

Part of over coming the limited side access is planning, having lines pre-set and the other advanage I have is my wife would rather sit at the helm then run the lines.

So in most cases, she will drive into the slip or dock and hold the boat, while I step off and tie the rear cleat. Then I can walk forward and retrieve the preset lines amid ship and on the bow. This is a team effort and we knew that going in. If I wanted to single hand a boat, I definely would have bought a different boat.

Like others have said, you need to know your limitations. Plan your trip, check the weather and throw the schedule out the window. Life is to short to be out in water you shouldn't be in. Yes we will all be caught in places we shouldn't be, but with today's electronics and communications, there is no real reason to put your life in danger to boat. Planning, training and knowing your limitations, should make for many good crising days ahead.

psneeld said:

15 knots of wind too much for a Manatee....YA GOTTA BE KIDDING ME .....then it would be too much for most of our boats...which it's ...NOT....

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Perhaps I should have elaborated. 15 knots is OK inshore. Take your boat or any boat through an inlet, or maybe through St. Andrews Sound on the ICW with a stiff 15 knot wind from the NE, and you will hate your life. Sorry for the generalization.
As far as being ugly, OK -- I like all boats. The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.

Egregious said:

Perhaps I should have elaborated. 15 knots is OK inshore. Take your boat or any boat through an inlet, or maybe through St. Andrews Sound on the ICW with a stiff 15 knot wind from the NE, and you will hate your life. Sorry for the generalization....

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Don't see how one can make such a conclusion without direct knowledge. If true, the boat would be "incompetent" which I doubt.

But then, some are fearful when a boat kicks up a spray (common occurence here).

Egregious said:

As far as being ugly, OK -- I like all boats. The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.

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I guess it's about just how politically correct and nicey-nice is one willing to be? I'm not much for saying something's great or even okay if I think it sucks. There is no requirement for anyone else to agree, just as there is no requirement that I have to pretend to like something when I don't.

I don't like all boats. In fact I like very few of them. And I happen to agree with Egregious' initial assessment of the Manatee's exterior aesthetics. Doesn't mean it's a bad boat. Doesn't mean it's not a great boat. Doesn't mean anything, really. It just conveys what I happen to like or not like in a boat.

Opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them.

Egregious said:

The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.

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Don't think the Coot is a "James Bond heart throb" either, unless one considers Ernest Borgnine was a lady's definition thereof. Some/most(?) of us rank other qualities more highly although I'd draw the line at repulsive.

In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.

Northern Spy said:

In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.

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nicely put..