First liveaboard

Starting to set up a Willard 36 sedan for my first liveaboard,shes in the water now and just figuring everything out,gonna open up walls in vberth and spray foam insulate for the first step,then figure out what I wanna do for heat,the boat is in Gloucester so i have the new England winters to deal with thinking of putting in a cubic mini wood and coal stove

With the coal stove, what is the exhaust like? I am not familiar with them so I don’t know but does it leave soot all over your boat and other boats?

Pick your moorage carefully. My marina will shut you down the minute a neighbor complains about soot on their boat.

While diesel exhaust has soot it doesn’t seem to be identifiable from everyday dirt but maybe that’s due to living under the airport flight path.

Diesel soot I have experienced from commercial drystacks near me would always smear....black soot from aircraft and other airborne pollutants seems dry and will almost wipe off...plain water takes most of it off while the dry stack soot you have to uses heavy detergent.

Many years ago I put a wood and coal stove in my liveaboard. It was great heat. But when I burned coal it made too much soot. I had to give up burning coal and wood didn't burn long enough to make it through the night.

Are you at a marina? Is power unmetered? If you just pay a straight fee for having electric i would opt for electric heat.

Interesting. We winter in Galesville, MD which is 10 miles south of Annapolis. There is another live aboard next to us which is heated with a diesel furnace. I have never smelled an exhaust or see anything coming out.

psneeld said:

Diesel soot I have experienced from commercial drystacks near me would always smear....black soot from aircraft and other airborne pollutants seems dry and will almost wipe off...plain water takes most of it off while the dry stack soot you have to uses heavy detergent.

Click to expand...

The cheap knock offs of Espar truck heaters are reportedly decent. Here's an example of a cheap one, but please..... Not an endorsement of this model. I have no direct knowledge.

I had a Sigmar 17k diesel heater. I had chronic issues with back puffing. Many run them successfully, but no matter what I did, I would get a down draft eventually which can range from hugely inconvenient to downright dangerous if the flame extinguished as the diesel keeps dripping into a very hot chamber and vaporizers.

I lived on my W36 comfortably for several years. Good exercise in austerity. Northern climate is a non-starter for me, but I'm a guy who moved away from San Francisco partially due to it being too cold

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LFFFCJT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_E6qRFbK7DKMCW

That knock off heater I don't understand what's the 2 ports they look like 1 inch and the 5kw how can that run on a house battery bank

It's a diesel fired furnace. 5kw it the measure of the heat output of the burning fuel. Sorry, I don't know what that relates to as equivalent to anything else.
The two 1inch pipes, 1 for combustion air in, 1 for exhaust. Uses electricity for the fan, not much more.

Greg S said:

It's a diesel fired furnace. 5kw it the measure of the heat output of the burning fuel. Sorry, I don't know what that relates to as equivalent to anything else.
The two 1inch pipes, 1 for combustion air in, 1 for exhaust. Uses electricity for the fan, not much more.

Click to expand...

Needs some amps to fire up the glow plug.

Greg S said:

It's a diesel fired furnace. 5kw it the measure of the heat output of the burning fuel. Sorry, I don't know what that relates to as equivalent to anything else.
The two 1inch pipes, 1 for combustion air in, 1 for exhaust. Uses electricity for the fan, not much more.

Click to expand...

For those in the US. 1 Watt times 3.41 = BTU. So 5 kw is 5000 times 3.41=17050 btu’s.

I use my reverse air conditioner for heat about three times a year here in Wisconsin. When I start needing it more I get the boat hauled and I go into hibernation. That being said.. I love wood heat. I heat my house and garage with wood and would love a wood stove in the boat. With the Tiny Homes coming into vogue there are some really nice small units being designed.

But... open flames on a boat scare me.

pete

Greg S said:

It's a diesel fired furnace. 5kw it the measure of the heat output of the burning fuel. Sorry, I don't know what that relates to as equivalent to anything else.
The two 1inch pipes, 1 for combustion air in, 1 for exhaust. Uses electricity for the fan, not much more.

Click to expand...

Heat output is measured in BTU, though no BTU is advertised for that unit.
The 5kw rating is more likely the electric power consumption at start, as is the rating for the Espar D7L, a more common boat heater, one that I once had on my boat.
https://esparparts.com/techsupport/pdfs/ARCHIVE models/Air heaters/D7L/D7L TD.pdf
rated at 8 kw, at start, mine was also a significant electric draw while operating at full power, for as long as it was cycling on. It was wired with #10 wires, which was a big clue.

" and spray foam insulate for the first step"

Depending on the foam much is very combustible investigate , or cover it all up well.

Insulating window glass is far easier and more effective.

Many liveaboards chose the Dickinson either the floor mounted heater or the Pacific range . Turn on in Oct turn off on May when the water is warmer. The Pacific is a drop in for many stove cutouts.

Gravity feed for diesel is simple with a on deck bladder tank.1 to 4 GPD depending ob outside air temp.

Only use the H style smoke head, the wind in a marina winds around the other boats which can blow the fire out.

Have had forced air, hydronic, drip diesel, and wood/coal. Here’s my experience for what it’s worth. Boats used in New England ( R.I., Massachusetts and Maine) so similar to your situation.
Waking up to a cold boat sucks. Having to feed, clean and source fuel for a solid fuel stove is a total PIA and often is limiting causing disruptions in your plans.
Size of vessel matters. Dirt matters. In anything under 50’ just finding space for solid fuel is a PIA. Moving it around makes your boat filthy. If wood bugs, splinters, bark fragments etc. means you’re cleaning the boat more often. Coal is a total mess and with any moisture doesn’t sweep up or vacuum. Ashes are the least of the problem.
So for a liveaboard solid fuel is a poor choice with few exceptions. So moving to electric. Electric is radiant heat. Great if you’re right in front of it but not if you’re not. Going to bed with freezing cold bedding sucks. Moving around you’re either too hot or too cold while you’re inside. So beyond the inefficiency and need for huge amount of electricity not a comfortable heat.
So you’re down to diesel in some form.
Forced hot air is drafty, uneven and cycles. So you don’t get that nice even heat. It’s also noisy compared to the other choices. It also takes up a surprising amount of space with its ductwork so you lose storage. Again on a small liveaboard not a good thing. It is fairly efficient and usually cheaper than hydronic but more expensive than drip.
Hydronic is the bees knees. Loved my wesbasto. Other than expense to put it in probably the best choice. But costly to the extent not often practical unless a new build.
But drip has a lot to offer in a small boat. Especially if a water loop is added. Think the Refleks is the best choice but some like the Dickerson as it’s more available in North America. Up sides is no furnace with the complexities that involves. 24/7 heat. Add in a few quiet fans in strategic places you can heat the whole boat and get even heat. Simple and less expensive than hydronic and even forced air.
So with a 36’ boat would probably favor drip, some super quiet fans and depending upon lay out a water loop to a radiator with fan behind it at the low point of your accommodations.
My 2 cents.

If you are having problems with the oil or coal or wood stove, look to the stack and the chimney cap.
Gotta get the chimney above the boat and then start searching for a uni-directional cap.
Electric.... I have 2 on my AT. One in the stateroom and one is the saloon.
They are built-ins with fans. Because the are mounted close to the floor, I would encourage you to pull the vent and check them for dust and dirt, at the beginning of the season.

Also, determine the 'hot spots' and place a fan to disperse the heat no matter the source of the heat.

Push come to shove, start the engine and open up the engine room to let the heat out. Just dont fall in the hole. Oh, and wear non-slip socks. LOL

Here’s a write up on Refleks with the link to their website

Refleks Diesel Heater

Wallas heaters are forced air but drip burning.


Less electrical energy consumption and relatively silent compared to fuel injection burners.


Have had one for 7 years with no major issues and they have pretty good reviews in my reading.


They are expensive but well made and customer service has been great....they are also smaller units BTU wise, so several are needed on larger boats...but it's more like zoned heating then (and redundancy to keep at least parts of the boat warm in severe weather).

FF said:

" and spray foam insulate for the first step"

Depending on the foam much is very combustible investigate , or cover it all up well.

Insulating window glass is far easier and more effective.

Many liveaboards chose the Dickinson either the floor mounted heater or the Pacific range . Turn on in Oct turn off on May when the water is warmer. The Pacific is a drop in for many stove cutouts.

Gravity feed for diesel is simple with a on deck bladder tank.1 to 4 GPD depending ob outside air temp.

Only use the H style smoke head, the wind in a marina winds around the other boats which can blow the fire out.

Click to expand...

Can I ask how you go about "insulating window glass" on a boat? You state it is far easier, I am trying to comprehend this.

Zoar said:

Can I ask how you go about "insulating window glass" on a boat? You state it is far easier, I am trying to comprehend this.

Click to expand...

3M window film.... like making a double pane (sorta) and more importantly seals from drafts due to aging seals.

Zoar said:

Can I ask how you go about "insulating window glass" on a boat? You state it is far easier, I am trying to comprehend this.

Click to expand...

Mount a sheet of plexiglass of reasonable thickness. I would mount it on the outside, stowing them in the summer, unless you need storm shutters for a rough crossing.
You could glue a dense foam rubber on the edges of the panel to make it more air tight, if necessary.

I would think, making each window a separate panel, big enough to cover a bit more than the glass area. Secure the panels into the window frame or the fiber glass.
You may get some condensation so you may need a couple of vent holes. That can be determined after installation.

The local hardware store will have kits , double stick tape , and plastic film .

If the windows are metal framed go just beyond them , as metal looses heat rapidly.

The plastic is heat shrink so a pass with a hair blower or heat gun will make everything neat, insulate both inside & outside each window..

Lost sailor: Welcome aboard. Good to see a full time New England liveaboard. I lived aboard for 2 winters in Boston.

Lots of people told me it can't be done. Or your boat is too small. Or what do you do in a storm. Blah, blah, blah...

Insulation is a great idea. I never did that. And in hindsight I wish I did. Getting heat aboard is your biggest task. I used 2 space heaters and reverse cycle heat until about January or so. After that the AC unit was pretty useless.

Diesel heat is the way to go. And the safest. If I had lived aboard another year then I would've done that.

What do you have for shore power? My camano 31 had a single 30A so I added a another 30A. You'll need that extra power in the winter in Boston.... trust me.

Good luck brother! Sounds like an adventure! There are many ways to live in this world. Most people have no clue other than their narrow, cookie cutter view. Lol

One key is to wait for the first snowfall , and simply look at the exterior of the vessel.

Snow melt , like at a hatch , is the sign of worse insulation than the surrounding area.

Do not remove the snow , it is good , free, insulation.

A stiff broom works with less harm than a shovel on walking paths.

FF said:

One key is to wait for the first snowfall , and simply look at the exterior of the vessel.

Snow melt , like at a hatch , is the sign of worse insulation than the surrounding area.

Do not remove the snow , it is good , free, insulation.

A stiff broom works with less harm than a shovel on walking paths.

Click to expand...

Boats of 40ft and less are not noted for insulation.
You could spray foam but, it may be flammable which is no help and makes it impossible to run additional wiring without performing major surgery on the foam.
Per not removing the snow? I guess that depends on a personal decision and motivation. I have been told, snow is a good isolation. You have the escaping heat from the cabin and the snow.... you could end up with ice between the cabin and snow. I am not sure of the benefit when one maintains an ice coating against the cabin roof.

" I am not sure of the benefit when one maintains an ice coating against the cabin roof."

Ice will be the same temperature as the outside air, snow above still insulates. .

If coal is still contemplated (although diesel is easier) an Irish fellow at the Worlds Fair Marina in the 1970's had a great simple system.

He bought a ton of coal and a large garbage can. He bagged the coal in a double set of paper bags and stored it on the dock in the can.

Getting home from work he simply shook the grates and placed an unopened bag in the heater. Same drill on waking in the AM, one bag , little effort.

He left the ash on the dock in plastic bags and other livaboards carried it off as thankfully treasure to get their cars out of the parking lot.

Here in Toronto all the liveaboards shrink wrap, with framed doors. It reduces heat loss by a surprising amount, and you can store stuff on deck.

Most people here use a combination of electric and diesel heat. Often a drip heater in the living area and portable electric in sleeping areas. A heated mattress pad is a must.

FF said:

"

He left t ash on the dock in plastic bags and other livaboards carried it off as thankfully treasure to get their cars out of the parking lot.

Click to expand...

Extreme caution when putting ashes in plastic bags or cardboard boxes.
I know of one guy who thought the ashes were 'dead', put them in a cardboard box, in the garage..... caused significant damage to his house when the ashes came back to life.