When to Retire

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Northern Spy said:
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Great set of hikers you got there Murray. Very considerate of your co-workers. I'm sure you will use them a lot.
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Our office is notable among supervisors who have worked here, because of how easy we make their jobs compared to other places. Awesome bunch of co-workers they are.

Into day two of wearing the boots inside, to slowly break them in. When the parcel arrived I thought it was my paper order because of the size and lightness of the box. Despite their weight, they are serious light mountaineering boots for sure, and very well made.

There is a peak just north of the Seven Sisters Range on the Skeena River that has been calling me. I think it's called Orion Peak...beside Artemis Peak. Around the longest day of the year, the rising sun hits the near vertical Seven Sisters north face, which I would love to photograph from Orion. It would put me about 3/4 the way up and across from the 5000' north face of the Seven Sisters.

My daughter & I tried to bushwhack our way up there this summer, didn't make it, but found a plausible, old, faded, overgrown path heading up a ridge through the forest. The laces to the toes will be a game changer for sure, as I'm pretty sure there will be some basic rock climbing moves involved in the alpine.

Will have to reassess or come up with Plan B if a rope is needed :eek:
 
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Link to a photo of Artemis Peak (dark pointy peak) standing in front of the north face of the Seven Sisters, by Brandon Broderick, a Terrace, BC photographer:

(Orion would be hidden behind Artemis' right shoulder)

Dare to Dream!

*scroll down to photo #18

https://brandonbroderick.com/landscapes
 
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OldDan1943 said:
I never pay anyone to play with my money.
Some advisors have churned the account, leaving you busted.
My broker got rid of me because I was not buying and selling in the market.
I manage my own stock portfolio and in the last 10 years my net worth has increased 3 times and meanwhile pays a very nice dividend while sitting on my hands
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OldDan1943 said:
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Excellent advice and that which drives our portfolio. Dividend stocks as a majority of our investments and then bits and pieces, like XXXXX shares of Microsoft at $14.00, Chevron at $24.00 (Avg) Johnson and Johnson at #35.00. The wife and I laugh daily recalling the phone call offering to purchase our Microsoft stock at $21.00!!!

There are days when the sun shines do damn bright!!!
For 18 years we lived on the Wife's income and banked every cent of mine by investing with Vanguard via funds and induvial brokerage.
When the company retirement came, I paid the income tax on the total and invested the balance in Vanguard's Hi Yield corporate fund. (4% average) Very conservative and consistent. Provides bulk of our monthly income.

The wife and I started a storage complex with 100 doors in 1986 along with a small Kubota tractor/backhoe rental business, continued that till 2000 and sold it to concentrate on the storage complex. Mind you, all of these expenditures were done with peresonal "cash". Use it as colladrol in CD form with the bank and pay with storage income deducting the interest.
During those 18 years the wife was employed, she and I ran a small three units of Bed and Breakfast. We were full all the summer time due to location, location location, and we kept the rates a bit below market which proved a winner. We had continued returning traveling professional cliants throughout the year Banked the annual profit into the Vanguard funds.

We recently 'Gifted' the storage complex valued at 3/4 million, to the kids. As they both are at the 60 year ages, they should share in their inheritance while it will provide to their own retirement plans or expenses chosen.

So folk's this near high school drop out and his bride have retired in full satisfaction for decisions made.
Yes, we could afford to purchase many of the larger boats,car,locations that interest us, however, reality of comfort being home in our beautiful beach cabin on Tongass Narrows during stormy weather enjoying the angry surf enjoying a glass of claret knowing the boat of some small dimensions, is rocking safe in the harbor awaiting the days of calm with no expense save harbor/elect. fees is one of comfort, In other words, we have the best of all worlds.
Yes to the question, the kids, grandkids and great Grands have and are the citizens any parent worth a damn would desire.
Bragging? Damn right as many posters should be as well. Good on all of you!!
Boy Howdy, did this confession feel good! To top it off, a really nice Yellow Cedar snag came on the beach this morning giving me a two week supply of wood stove fuel!!
Gotta to buck and stack it up= Later.:flowers:
Al
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MurrayM said:
Link to a photo of Artemis Peak (dark pointy peak) standing in front of the north face of the Seven Sisters, by Brandon Broderick, a Terrace, BC photographer:

(Orion would be hidden behind Artemis' right shoulder)

Dare to Dream!

*scroll down to photo #18

https://brandonbroderick.com/landscapes
Click to expand...


There is so much to see at a modest 6-7 knots. Great photo's Murray, We on the forum should expect to see some of your potential results from voyaging in retirement:thumb:
 
Hi Al,

Being at peace is a good sign of a Life well lived :thumb:
 
Here's an old jpeg of the Seven Sisters with Artemis Peak darkened in the foreground. Can you imagine what the north face of the Seven Sisters would look like (1/2 of it is blocked by the forested ridge) at sunrise, less than a kilometre away?
 

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ScottC said:
I can highly recommend the following book by Wade Pfau.
It goes into great detail about withdrawal rates (i.e. 4%; 3%, 3.14159%, etc.) and "sequence of returns risk" which is an absolutely critical topic to understand when planning for retirement or navigating through it. Check out the other books by Dr. Pfau too (covering such topics as reverse mortgages and annuities). They're excellent.


"How Much Can I Spend In Retirement?"

https://www.amazon.com/How-Much-Spend-Retirement-Investment-Based/dp/1945640022
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I failed to mention that this book STARTS by looking at the big picture, helping you bring it all together so you can calculate your personal ”funded ratio”, which can be a very enlightening exercise.
 
For those paying wealth management fees - what percentage are you paying?
 
WOW How timely.

So (after getting divorced), I lived modestly on my income my whole life and saved/invested all I could. Planned for early retirement - Enron changed that. Planned to retire as soon as I turned 62 - Covid19 changed that. I've been "working-from-home" for 7-8 months(?) now. Company offered packages to those who volunteered - I did (I was so glad I waited). They turned be down - :eek: . Still working-from-home, but company will allow working from anywhere - Hmmmmm. Going to retire as soon as some corporate bennies vest - then I'm outta here.

My point is, I think I'm on Plan G. It never works out the way you first thought it would. Keep plugging away at it, your whole life, and someday you'll get there - hopefully in a favorable financial condition. Soon, soon, soon, for me. :)

Todd2
 
I would imagine getting divorced moves you on to plan B very quickly!

Did you actually work for Enron, or are you talking about the overall 2008 meltdown?
 
menzies said:
I would imagine getting divorced moves you on to plan B very quickly!

Did you actually work for Enron, or are you talking about the overall 2008 meltdown?
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HA! Divorce (or the pre-divorce) completely wiped out Plan A. In fact, I was lucky to get out with a little over $10,000 of her 'secret' credit card debt - I knew nothing about. I started Plan B with less than nothing.

I did not work for Enron, but in the same energy sector. My company stock (most of my 401-K at the time) settled at 10% of pre-Enron times. That almost made me give up. Onto Plan C......

Todd2
 
menzies said:
For those paying wealth management fees - what percentage are you paying?
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75bps, (.0075, or 0.75%), includes some legal and accounting services for the structures we use to manage current and future taxes. IOTW, that fee covers investment activity, estate planning, and tax management/planning.
 
MurrayM said:
On the topic of people working what some might call demeaning jobs in retirement.

We took a pre-retirement course where the instructor crunched the numbers for us and showed some of those workers might be bringing in more money than they did before retiring.

Take us for example...my annual retirement monies, after taxes (including our RIFF) is 88% of my annual take home pay from my job. Granted, we are scraping the bottom of the middle income bracket, but it wouldn’t take much of a job to boost me past what I was bringing in while working.

I don’t look at ‘those guys’ the same way any more.
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Downside is, I’m working
 
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I’ll add a bit of a different take on things.

At 54 I took a “retirement” job.

I took a job that I was way overqualified to do, that allowed me to work a bit over 130 days a year and still get a full time salary and benefits.

It was funny that my new job as a power grid operator pays as much as a senior engineer did but has none of the stress and competivness of my old position.

I now work for one of my former employees, make as much money as he does, and am MUCH happier as I wind down to retirement.

Yes I work night shifts, yes I have no “say” in the big picture like I used to have. For the first time in my career I am not “critical” I am not on call, I am not “important”. I am one of seven operators who keep the lights on. Easy job. To me I barely work. I put in three or four 12 hour shifts and then have a week or two off to do as I please.

What a breath of fresh air!

I have used that time to work on my business endevor, and have solidified my place in the market as a well known brand name in the world of industrial power switching equipment. My business runs itself with a bit of my time to consult on the difficult projects.

Now i am just counting down the clock keeping a promise I made to my wife years ago to not retire until my 60th birthday.

I know folks in the type A world of dog eat dog competitive workplaces will read this, and all I can offer is to get out of that ratrace and preserve your happiness!


Remember that they will post your job before they post your obituary.
 
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On the subject of paying other people to manage your money I HIGHLY recommend this little book... While you're at it, Google the author and watch some interviews with him on Youtube..... very enlightening.

Amazon.com
 
ksanders said:
I’ll add a bit of a different take on things.

At 54 I took a “retirement” job.

I took a job that I was way overqualified to do, that allowed me to work a bit over 130 days a year and still get a full time salary and benefits.

It was funny that my new job as a power grid operator pays as much as a senior engineer did but has none of the stress and competivness of my old position.

I now work for one of my former employees, make as much money as he does, and am MUCH happier as I wind down to retirement.

Yes I work night shifts, yes I have no “say” in the big picture like I used to have. For the first time in my career I am not “critical” I am not on call, I am not “important”. I am one of seven operators who keep the lights on. Easy job. To me I barely work. I put in three or four 12 hour shifts and then have a week or two off to do as I please.

What a breath of fresh air!

I have used that time to work on my business endevor, and have solidified my place in the market as a well known brand name in the world of industrial power switching equipment. My business runs itself with a bit of my time to consult on the difficult projects.

Now i am just counting down the clock keeping a promise I made to my wife years ago to not retire until my 60th birthday.

I know folks in the type A world of dog eat dog competitive workplaces will read this, and all I can offer is to get out of that ratrace and preserve your happiness!


Remember that they will post your job before they post your obituary.
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I'm in a "similar boat", having a lot more fun doing instead of managing others doing the doing. When it isn't anymore I'll re-retire and go boating, or do something else.

"The graveyards are full of indispensable men."
 
I retired at 55 in Feb 2020. Have a good pension an a modest 403B. Only issue is that my wife is still working so I can't really do anything travel wise with the boat. She bas 3 more years left until she is able to retire.
 
larman said:
I retired at 55 in Feb 2020. Have a good pension an a modest 403B. Only issue is that my wife is still working so I can't really do anything travel wise with the boat. She bas 3 more years left until she is able to retire.
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Good deal for her because she gets three years for you to"get the boat right" for her to cruise.
 
larman said:
I retired at 55 in Feb 2020. Have a good pension an a modest 403B. Only issue is that my wife is still working so I can't really do anything travel wise with the boat. She bas 3 more years left until she is able to retire.
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"Only issue is that my wife is still working so I can't really do anything travel wise with the boat"
We were in a position where only one of us was needed at work for a number of years. We found that we could move the boat around a couple of hundred mile radius and the working spouse could commute to the boat for longer weekends or weeks off. Places like Kingston NY, Mystic Seaport, Block Island and many others can be a good destination for extended family to spend some time and are not so hard to get to by both land and sea.
Just a thought.
 
Retired on my 65th birthday. I'll admit I was lucky to have good pensions and enough net worth. Not rich, but comfortable.
Think most are not lucky and are legitimately forced to work. Some till their last breath.
We are all closer to the end than beginning.
At 65 we probably can expect 10 years of good health, physically able do most chores aboard our boats and homes.
Yes, i could have remained working contributing to pensions and increasing cash in the bank. Don't believe the trade off is worth it.
Trade off is subtracting healthy retirement years.
I used to work with guys that were 69, 70 and 71 years plus.
Some of them have gone directly from working into wheelchair or extended care, missing wonderful healthy retirement, even if was only for a few years.
There excuses ranged from nothing to do, to paying off debts...
There reasons were valid.
Problem is I don't know anyone asking for less time!
 
roddy said:
Retired on my 65th birthday. I'll admit I was lucky to have good pensions and enough net worth. Not rich, but comfortable.
Think most are not lucky and are legitimately forced to work. Some till their last breath.
We are all closer to the end than beginning.
At 65 we probably can expect 10 years of good health, physically able do most chores aboard our boats and homes.
Yes, i could have remained working contributing to pensions and increasing cash in the bank. Don't believe the trade off is worth it.
Trade off is subtracting healthy retirement years.
I used to work with guys that were 69, 70 and 71 years plus.
Some of them have gone directly from working into wheelchair or extended care, missing wonderful healthy retirement, even if was only for a few years.
There excuses ranged from nothing to do, to paying off debts...
There reasons were valid.
Problem is I don't know anyone asking for less time!
Click to expand...

As you indicated, all of those of us who frequent TF are lucky. Those who continue to work until 69, 70, 71, do so 9 out of 10 times because of financial needs. There are a few who do it because they feel they have nothing else to do since they never developed any hobbies and they don't particularly want to spend that much time with their spouse.

Our most precious and limited asset is time and if I can take advantage of the time I do have, then I'm going to do so.
 
From a very young age (40) I've always thought in terms of 2 retirements. The first, from working for a living that requires some significant financial success so that one can really enjoy their retirement pursuits with relatively good health. The second is when the workload of actually doing most of the vessel's mechanical & electrical needs is just too much! Presently, I am in the second phase, opting for a much smaller (and total electric) boat that still allows me as much time on the water as I desire. That boat arrives next week and I shall see if my "2 retirements" philosophy holds any water. :angel:
 
BandB said:
There are a few who do it because they feel they have nothing else to do since they never developed any hobbies and they don't particularly want to spend that much time with their spouse.
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Some people genuinely enjoy their work. Even people with hobbies. From what I can tell, lots of retired guys in my YC are active in club management because they miss the same sorts of challenges and fulfillment that their careers had provided. The fear of missing the fun of my current position so much that I seek out YC management is one of the things that keeps me from retiring.
 
We retired at 40 to sail around the world. That is more correctly referred to as project management rather than retirement I guess. Not going to work as such, but still plenty to do. After 5 years we got back to NZ and it was time to stop.
While we didn't really need to work again, boredom set in and we now own three businesses. One is in a quite exciting phase at present, we have a great team working with us, and I enjoy going to work.
I turned 60 a few weeks ago and do plan to slow down a bit. I'm already out on the boat two to three nights a week, year round. We will sign to build a new boat in the next couple of weeks.
I plan to keep a hand in with the businesses for as long as I'm not in the way. Some people find coasting along in retirement quite easy and fulfilling and good luck to them. For now it just doesn't suit me.
 
I have a gazillion images with the potential to go from their unedited straight out of camera form to their post processed form. See images below.

Right now the question needing an answer is; what method to use for final prints? Ink jet printer using pigment inks on heavy weight 100% cotton rag paper, or platinum/palladium or gold toned hand coated Kallitype's on heavy weight water colour papers? Multilayers like Irving Penn did?

No easy answers...
 

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MYTraveler said:
Some people genuinely enjoy their work. Even people with hobbies. From what I can tell, lots of retired guys in my YC are active in club management because they miss the same sorts of challenges and fulfillment that their careers had provided. The fear of missing the fun of my current position so much that I seek out YC management is one of the things that keeps me from retiring.
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I'm among those. I just opened a small business upon retirement as a hobby. I then let it grow a little and made the huge mistake of hiring one and then the second most incredibly talented business women ever in history and allowing them to run wild. But I do enjoy it. Normally I spend a couple of days a month on it, but during hurricanes and pandemics I work to assist them. This year my wife and I have been nearly full time since the first of March. Unable to cruise as we'd planned, it's been a sanity saver. It's been something to keep us fully engaged.

Now, I always enjoyed my career but I enjoy being on the water more.
 
Pre & Post retirement expenses...

Another thought related to the portions of this thread pondering whether one can afford to retire...

Having a really good picture of your pre-retirement living expenses is a BIG help with overall retirement planning.

There are financial planners out there suggesting post-retirement expenses might be 80% of what they were during one's working years. Others suggest 100%. Still others suggest 120%. Just as with portfolio withdrawal rates, there is no safe, accurate, one-size-fits-all number. It's very individual.

Having a good picture of your pre-retirement living expenses can help you generate a fairly accurate long-term living expense projection for your years in retirement.

A little over 25 years ago, I started using Quicken because I needed to budget and keep track of expenses carefully in order to make ends meet. I continued to use Quicken for this throughout the years, even though it became less and less important for making ends meet. What I didn't realize during this time is that I was slowly crafting one of the best retirement planning inputs one could possibly ask for.

It's good, for example, to be able to look at household expenses for the previous 10 years (and not just the previous 1 or 3 years) when coming up with a retirement plan. This long-term backward view can capture infrequent, but large expenses (think: new refrigerator, new kitchen, new car, etc).

Projecting living expenses into and through retirement, then, becomes an informed spreadsheet exercise, where a specific inflation rate estimate can be applied to each expense category. Maybe 2-3% for clothing. Maybe 5-6% for health/medical, etc. Major purchases (new car, new roof...) can be inserted into the projection for the appropriate years. Doesn't matter too much if you're 1, 2 or even 5 years off about when that new roof turns out to actually be needed, you at least have that likely future expense built into your plan.

Of course, to the above, new expenses need to be added for projects in retirement. Boat! Boat upgrades! Travel! Etc.

So, for those of you just starting to think about retirement planning, I can highly recommend you start tracking your expenses now, if you aren't already doing this.
 
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ScottC said:
Another thought related to the portions of this thread pondering whether one can afford to retire...

Having a really good picture of your pre-retirement living expenses is a BIG help with overall retirement planning.

There are financial planners out there suggesting post-retirement expenses might be 80% of what they were during one's working years. Others suggest 100%. Still others suggest 120%. Just as with portfolio withdrawal rates, there is no safe, accurate, one-size-fits-all number. It's very individual.

Having a good picture of your pre-retirement living expenses can help you generate a fairly accurate long-term living expense projection for your years in retirement.

A little over 25 years ago, I started using Quicken because I needed to budget and keep track of expenses carefully in order to make ends meet. I continued to use Quicken for this throughout the years, even though it became less and less important for making ends meet. What I didn't realize during this time is that I was slowly crafting one of the best retirement planning inputs one could possibly ask for.

It's good, for example, to be able to look at household expenses for the previous 10 years (and not just the previous 1 or 3 years) when coming up with a retirement plan. This long-term backward view can capture infrequent, but large expenses (think: new refrigerator, new kitchen, new car, etc).

Projecting living expenses into and through retirement, then, becomes an informed spreadsheet exercise, where a specific inflation rate estimate can be applied to each expense category. Maybe 2-3% for clothing. Maybe 5-6% for health/medical, etc. Major purchases (new car, new roof...) can be inserted into the projection for the appropriate years. Doesn't matter too much if you're 1, 2 or even 5 years off about when that new roof turns out to actually be needed, you at least have that likely future expense built into your plan.

Of course, to the above, new expenses need to be added for projects in retirement. Boat! Boat upgrades! Travel! Etc.

So, for those of you just starting to think about retirement planning, I can highly recommend you start tracking your expenses now, if you aren't already doing this.
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I can heartily endorse Scott's advice with respect to Quicken ( or a similar product). I have been using it for the same purpose since the mid 1980's. It helped me save, motivated my investing, helped me plan my "escape" from work at 49 and provided the raw data for all my retirement planning XLS worksheets. ~Alan
 
Wife and I both retired (she 5 years ago, me last year). What I find interesting is that very successful professionals type people ask me from time to time how to plan for retirement, or how did I do it. I tell them to do it just like you do in your business or job. They are very good at planning for their business ventures, but maybe assume it does not apply to personal life. Since 1985, my house/life budget looks very much like a corporation's: I have a budget for Cap Ex (new furnace needed in 5 years), Op Ex (changing oil, filters, tires rotate in car as I type this post); Legal compliance (taxes); Depreciation (new car in a few years); Investments (boat purchase:dance:) . This kind of budgeting eliminates surprises (e.g., transmission goes unexpectedly), and allows for continuous savings into retirement funds etc.
 
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