Port Cat 3208 won't start

So I'm headed out to Catalina Island for a weekend and I was draining my middle tank before cutting over to my larger aft fuel tank. Well I was distracted and ran her down till the engines started to quit. I switched to the aft tank and the stb engine kept running but the port quit. I tried to start. No good. Bled the top injector, no start. Heck with it complete the journey on one engine. Next day, bled again, no start. Then the + battery terminal separated from the battery. So I put a stainless screw through it and tried again to start. Turns over but no start. Heck with it. Came home on one engine. Bought new start 8D AGM Batts. No start. Turns over fast, makes a sound like one cylinder wants to fire, no start. I checked to be sure the manual shut down solenoid was not depressed, nor was it going down when the starter was engaged. I pumped, bled again. No start. Any ideas? Oh I also deactivated my Fireboy system just to be sure. No start.

Are you bleeding the top injector by running the priming pump? If so, did you get all the ball valves back in run position? I’ve shut an engine down by inadvertently kicking one of the ball valves closed a little. Did you look in the Racor to be sure it’s full?

Air or a blocked flowpath will cause no-start.

A 3208 cat has a manual priming pump and a bleed valve on top of the motor you must open to bleed the motor. I'm willing to bet if you follow those steps the murder will start

motion30 said:

A 3208 cat has a manual priming pump and a bleed valve on top of the motor you must open to bleed the motor. I'm willing to bet if you follow those steps the murder will start

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The small petcock/T piece (pictured under the forward fuel line) is on the top of the fuel pump, back it off a few turns, twist and release the plunger/primer and pump until fuel flows down the drain tubes at the front of the engine, then tighten the petcock valve.

Excessive cranking without starting can create a flooded exhaust system that can possibly flood the motor or create excessive back pressure, depending on exhaust system configuration.
Be careful!

Replace your fuel filters first, then bleed the engine.
Here's a wee tip, before you fit the new fuel filters fill them right up with fuel, it'll save you time bleeding.

wpc691 said:

Are you bleeding the top injector by running the priming pump? If so, did you get all the ball valves back in run position? I’ve shut an engine down by inadvertently kicking one of the ball valves closed a little. Did you look in the Racor to be sure it’s full?

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Yes I did that. Racor is good and clean.

Irish Rambler said:

Replace your fuel filters first, then bleed the engine.
Here's a wee tip, before you fit the new fuel filters fill them right up with fuel, it'll save you time bleeding.

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Yup. I do that. I also have vacuum gauges on each racor and the filters are not a problem.

Southern Boater said:

View attachment 109315

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The small petcock/T piece (pictured under the forward fuel line) is on the top of the fuel pump, back it off a few turns, twist and release the plunger/primer and pump until fuel flows down the drain tubes at the front of the engine, then tighten the petcock valve.

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Oh, yes, did that from the start.

Ok, sorry it took so long to get back on this but I took a two week vacation and came back to more boat work. So I finally gave up and brought in my diesel mechanic. He removed the stop solenoid and looked under it to be sure something wasn't stuck there as when the stop button was depressed it returned properly and positively. Then he pumped the priming pump. Then he cracked open all of the stb injectors and pumped some more. Then he said try starting. It took the third try to finally start her. Ok, next time I just have to be more aggressive in my bleeding technique. When this happened in the past, really my first trip on the boat, bleeding the top injector was all that was needed.

Thank you all for your responses.

RickyD said:

Ok, sorry it took so long to get back on this but I took a two week vacation and came back to more boat work. So I finally gave up and brought in my diesel mechanic. He removed the stop solenoid and looked under it to be sure something wasn't stuck there as when the stop button was depressed it returned properly and positively. Then he pumped the priming pump. Then he cracked open all of the stb injectors and pumped some more. Then he said try starting. It took the third try to finally start her. Ok, next time I just have to be more aggressive in my bleeding technique. When this happened in the past, really my first trip on the boat, bleeding the top injector was all that was needed.

Thank you all for your responses.

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The bolded text is the way to properly bleed the injectors. Good to hear that you're up and running!

Ok here is an update: I needed to dump the holding tanks so I started both engines, left my dock for the pump out station. When I completed the dirty job, another boater wanted my spot and was hand pulling his boat to take my spot. So, I did what I normally don't do. I tossed my lines, pushed off, climbed to the fly bridge, started the engines, but no the port engine would not start. Ok back to my slip on one engine. I tied her up, carefully bled the port engine, started her and ran it up to 1200 RPM and kept her there. At least for a time. After a couple minutes she started to wind down until she quit. I opened the racor to find it only had 1/3 the fuel and lots of air. Replaced the filter just because and the seals. Bled again, started again, ran again, quit again. Then I began to hear a gurgle at the on engine fuel filter. Aha!! Lets be sure. Started the stb engine for a short time, listened for a gurgle, none. Ok. Must be a leak in the fuel lines coming and going to the fuel filter. So I took off the exit line. Put my finger on the hole. Gurgle Gurgle Gurgle. Ok put that back on. Took off the supply line. Put my finger on the hole. Gurgle Gurgle Gurgle. Damn. So now its either the line from the tank to the supply control valve or from the control valve to the Racor. I'm ready to call in the hose guy and start replacing hoses. A dock buddy was aboard and I showed him the line from the Racor to the supply valve inside the engine room. Then I went up to the salon and then walked him to the place where the control valves are. I opened the cover and low and behold, when I was in a big hurry to change to my aft fuel tank, the supply valve for the port engine was switched over 96% but not all the way. So I made sure I was solid, re-bled, restarted, ran like crazy for 15 minutes. Problem solved. Holey smokes. How many hours did I put into that discovery that could have take 30 seconds if I had thought to look. So I had been sucking air out of an empty tank all along.

It was a beautiful hot day in So. Cal. yesterday and my bride and I cruised for about 4 hours, no fuel problems. Whew!!

Nice!!

Think about the money you saved at $145hr.

You don't fly a plane do you? Please say no.

I can’t tell you how many times I remind people to start with the simplest solution. Don’t feel bad, in 1974 I was in a Coast Guard Aux training class. The instructor gave us a long list of things to do in case the engine would not start. At the bottom of the list was check for fuel in the tank. I asked why that wasn’t at the top of the list. He simply said he had not thought about that.

KISS, it usually it the simple stuff that we overlook. Glad you got it fixed!

Haha..I love it though. Sometimes thats how you really really learn things. Especially troubleshooting. Good recovery!

When I was a youngster I once had an issue another crew was troubleshooting. An APU that would not start. I was asked to take over and saw that they had been bouncing around on their progression. I decided to start at the APU start fuel nozzle and troubleshoot back. I did a thorough bit of troubleshooting...all the way back to the empty fuel tanks. 6 hours down the drain...lol. Never forgot that lesson though. Especially the one about taking over someone else troubleshooting.

My son has standing instructions any time the boat won't crank when I turn the key... "Dad, are you in neutral?" . I love simple solutions.

Over the years I have been on many call-outs for marine diesels that would not start. A bunch of them, troubleshooting revealed "no fuel in tank". Never slammed them for that, just politely said "let's get some fuel in here".

Gotta go for the simplest and cheapest problem first. A fuel valve half cocked is in that category. And I have bumped into them and put them in that position.

Always KISS, do the easy things first. Don’t rip it all apart and then discover that the fuel supply shutoff valve is in the off position.

Prospective said:

My son has standing instructions any time the boat won't crank when I turn the key... "Dad, are you in neutral?" . I love simple solutions.

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I can’t count how many times I have turned the key, and nothing happened, and then did the, “Oh, that’s great,” thing, before checking the gear shift.

Comodave said:

Always KISS, do the easy things first. Don’t rip it all apart and then discover that the fuel supply shutoff valve is in the off position.

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That actually was the problem the first time I ran an engine dry. I just bought the boat. Had the previous owner fill the fuel tanks as part of my original sales agreement. I had run it around San Diego a bit with no issues but now I was taking a 9 hour trip up to Los Angeles Harbor. I had been running for about 7 hours when I thought to start running off of the second tank as it was full to the top and some fuel was spilling out the vent. Being shy, I only converted over the port engine. Then it died. Couldn't get it started and didn't know about cracking the injectors. Made the rest of the trip on one engine till I could call and get advice. It turns out there was another supply valve under the master bed that was turned off. Ok, figured it out.

When we just buy a boat, not just yourself, but many folk, are full of excitement at cruising their new purchase they don't often ask for advice about what to do and check about their new toy in case they would feel embarrassed.
'Its only a boat, I can drive a car/truck so I can surely drive a boat' some reckon I'm smart enough to make the money so I don't need some mechanic/other skipper to show me what to do.
As you've found out its always better to ask a question and feel a fool for a minute, than go ahead and prove it.
Not only did you not ask/or not shown about the fuel valve you were not informed about the system of return pipes from the engine and which tank it went to which is why you had diesel spilling out of the vent.
You are now much wiser but get someone to show you the complete diesel fuel system and take notes so you never need to feel embarrassed again.
What happens when you run a diesel engine is that the fuel pump supplies sufficient fuel for the engine to run perfectly at wide open throttle (WOT), however it doesn't use all the fuel and any excess is returned to the diesel tank.
But which diesel tank ? Ask someone to show you and take notes/memorize and you'll be able to enjoy your new boat with your friends and family with no worries.
Everyone's been in your position at some time, we all had to learn the hard way and you are lucky as you have the internet now to support you.
Fortunately here on TF you have a wealth of knowledge from helpful guys and gals, all you have to do is ask and we'll all be happy to help you.

Irish Rambler said:

When we just buy a boat, not just yourself, but many folk, are full of excitement at cruising their new purchase they don't often ask for advice about what to do and check about their new toy in case they would feel embarrassed.
'Its only a boat, I can drive a car/truck so I can surely drive a boat' some reckon I'm smart enough to make the money so I don't need some mechanic/other skipper to show me what to do.
As you've found out its always better to ask a question and feel a fool for a minute, than go ahead and prove it.
Not only did you not ask/or not shown about the fuel valve you were not informed about the system of return pipes from the engine and which tank it went to which is why you had diesel spilling out of the vent.
You are now much wiser but get someone to show you the complete diesel fuel system and take notes so you never need to feel embarrassed again.
What happens when you run a diesel engine is that the fuel pump supplies sufficient fuel for the engine to run perfectly at wide open throttle (WOT), however it doesn't use all the fuel and any excess is returned to the diesel tank.
But which diesel tank ? Ask someone to show you and take notes/memorize and you'll be able to enjoy your new boat with your friends and family with no worries.
Everyone's been in your position at some time, we all had to learn the hard way and you are lucky as you have the internet now to support you.
Fortunately here on TF you have a wealth of knowledge from helpful guys and gals, all you have to do is ask and we'll all be happy to help you.

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I appreciate and agree with your comments however you have made some assumptions that just aren't correct. First, the PO knew very little about the boat. He had a captain, he never drove the boat himself, it was his bedroom on the water when he visited San Diego. So, there was very little I could glean from him. Yes I could have interviewed the captain, but I only met him during the sea trial and with engine and boat surveys underway, I had lots going on. Secondly, the reason fuel was coming out of the vents is not because of misaligned valves but because as, part of my purchase condition, was that the fuel tanks be full. They were, and there as a heat wave that July, and as the fuel warmed and expanded it began oozing out the vents. I taped some rags under them for a few days to try and prevent the leaks from getting to the bay. It has been about 2-1/2 years now. I have worked on the engines, water maker, stabilizer, anchor windlass, davits, electronics, fuel system, generators, Batteries, chargers, inverter, plumbing----what haven't I worked on? Even the A/C systems. It is all a learning experience. Hey its a boat. I bought my first one in 1986 so I've been around but each one has its own personality. This one was beautiful on the outside, had really good bones but had been somewhat recently under utilized and therefore some deficiencies were left undiscovered. Maybe the worst one was having done oil and coolant analysis with no issues except old coolant uncovered, driving the boat for 15 hours and then finding oil in the port coolant tank. That was a $3,200 repair. Or, how about driving my dinghy over to a friends newly purchased older boat and have him saying he is finished with fixing it up, I say no you aren't it is a never ending process. But I add, I think I'm done with the "big stuff' for awhile. I drive back to my boat and the davit won't lift it all the way up. Ok, rattled the boating gods and they got back at me.

This is a great thread for us 3208 new owners. I knew about the pump, but the T value I didn't know about. I've had experienced Captains on my boat with this problem and didn't know about the T value. Could someone post a picture of where to "crack open all of the stb injectors" or comment on my pictures?

The Brockerts

RickyD, I was just generalizing and as you've found out the learning curve just goes on. Funny you should make the comment about the PO just using it as a floating bedroom. We have a guy in the port who just bought a lovely Dutch steel cruiser, 35 yrs old and looking real smart.
Dont be offended but there's an old Irish saying that 'Its all fur coats and no knickers (panties)' and this boat fits the bill.
Like you the new owners had only been on 2 weeks and the fridge blew up and the bilge pump quit, his wife fell down the stairs and has a partially collapsed lung.
Whatever Gods we believe in we sure need to keep in touch to keep the boat gremlins at bay !