Do I have Issues?

Do I have Issues ... or just having fun?

Hello TF members,
Serious question.... I am 18~24 months out from transitioning from the working world to the boating-retired. Been fortunate as an investor/saver leaving me with more money than I would have imagined in my younger days. I have traveled the entirety of my career through March of 2020 and maintained a home office for the last 20 years. COVID keeps us business travelers from, you guessed it - business travel, leaving more time on our collective hands. According to plan I sold our primary residence this year (seller’s market in a Pandemic ++) and downsized such that I have a big-boat war chest at the ready. I have owned many boats in my 53 years and learned so much (many times the hard way). I am looking to go (much) bigger then my comfort zone into a liveaboard trawler for at least ½ the year for my wife and I, and hopefully visiting sons. Throughout my life and exponentially more so today I have prepared. I have done my research, attended countless shows, assessed so many prospective boats, kept pictures of those I liked most, subscribe to several boating magazines, visited boat yards, took a class on diesels with Mack Boring, purchased tools, created endless lists, downloaded the latest boating APPS, talked with every boat owner I have encountered, got quoted on insurance for a boat I don’t have, read Trawler Forum daily, worked my finances incessantly and routinely watch at least 10 Youtube videos a day of cruising couples or Ask Captain Chris, or Haulover Inlet, or Bahamas in 4k…all to learn to be a better boater and learn…the life. I have even reached out to existing owners of my favorite vessel to get firsthand impressions/expenses/surrprises of the reality of the brand and what to expect.

This is all I think about and think I may have a problem – Do I? Does anybody know a boat therapist to get me to 2022?

Welcome to TF. Yes, you have an issue. It almost sounds like you're over-thinking this and making it all too hard. On the other hand, it may just be you're milking every ounce of pleasure from the whole process. If the latter - then just keep doin' what you're doin'...

No. Absolutely not. You don’t have a problem! You are in the enviable position of being fully prepared to fulfill a dream. It would be far worse if you didn’t have this dream to obsess about. Think of the retirees you know that simply assume a little golf, bridge and relaxation will satisfy them for the last third of their time on earth. This formula may work for some, but for many, it leads to boredom, depression and despair.

Was amazed that what I thought was important or a potential problem before going cruising wasn’t. And what i thought would be a non issue were the parts that were difficult and problematic.
You will be fine.
When frustrated laugh and say “it’s a boat”.
Remember anything that doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. (And wiser).
When you stop learning they better have thrown dirt in your face...or they soon will.

If you have an issue then so do most of us. The best thing to do, IMO, is to look at as many boats that you think will meet your needs/wants. Make a list of must haves, want to have and must not have. As you look at boats refine the lists. A few of our must haves were loose furniture due to bad backs, no ladders due to 85 pound black lab and walk around berth so it is easier to make the bed. We had a bunch more but this will give you an idea as to some of the things on your lists. Have fun looking and don’t wait until the day you want to leave to buy the boat. I would try to get it about a year before so you can fix it up and work out the bugs. Good luck.

Greetings,
Mr. F. I think Dr. Sasha is taking new clients...

While RT's suggestion has merit Sasha will likely not be covered by insurance and would quickly cost you 50% of your net worth if your wife found out.

I would say you need to talk with a boat broker

Everyone has issues. Some just cost more.
Calm down, no rush, no drama, it appears to be a sellers market right now. Stick to your plan.
Boat market should return to normal in a year.

My immediate thought is YES you have an issue. There is a perfectly good retirement thread going and you have to start a new one.

Carry on.

You're okay. Read what you can, take a few courses for practical experience WITH the 2nd in command. BOTH get training on close quarter handling and navigation.
Haul Over cut is not bad.... nor is the Stuart cut. Just be wise when choosing your passage. It is called "common sense". I am sure there are worse cuts on both coasts.

Just curious what size your considering?

magna 6882 said:

Just curious what size your considering?

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Magna - I have considered between 42' and 55'. Largest boat Ive owned an operated was a 27' Albin Family Cruiser. Today I run a 24' fish boat. My retirement dream boat from about 10 years back was a 44 Nordic Tug with flybridge...Then I saw/considered Full Displacement hulls including Defever, Kady Krogan, Nordhavn, Selene, then shifted to Semi Displacement hulls where I have settled. Looked at Krogan Express, Marlow's, Grand Banks and somewhere in there my favorite .... the Fleming 55. Well engineered and beautiful classic lines.
The jump up scares the living hell out of me!

Sure you have issues. Welcome to the Issues Forum.

Greetings,
Mr. F. "The jump up scares the living hell out of me!" Yep. You're well to consider the potential implications of a large(r) vessel BUT at some point you'll have to fish or continue to cut bait. I'm surprised no one has suggested renting a couple of larger vessels.
Take the "missus" and spend a couple of weeks somewhere warm and inviting. Probably better for your overall mental, physical and financial health than Dr. Sasha.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. F. "The jump up scares the living hell out of me!" Yep. You're well to consider the potential implications of a large(r) vessel BUT at some point you'll have to fish or continue to cut bait. I'm surprised no one has suggested renting a couple of larger vessels.
Take the "missus" and spend a couple of weeks somewhere warm and inviting. Probably better for your overall mental, physical and financial health than Dr. Sasha.

Click to expand...

Great advice and already in the works - Covid permitting...

You are young, you'll survive. At least, unlike many, you have a plan.

mid 40ft range, 2 staterooms for your newly acquired friends, generator, water maker for those long cruises that will happen, Reverse cycle A/C yes, it does get cold in FL

The Albin family cruiser is a great boat and IMO is a perfect intro to trawler-style boating. Did you have a slow 27' or a later model?

Alaskaflyer said:

The Albin family cruiser is a great boat and IMO is a perfect intro to trawler-style boating. Did you have a slow 27' or a later model?

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Was great boat with my three boys who could all fit (at the time) into the rear cabin. I had a late 80's model with a 160HP Isuzu engine (they used everything). With a wind and tide behind me I can eek out 14 Knots....

Our backgrounds are similar, I'm 55, two years or so away from a semi retirement. I came from a lifetime spent in fishing boats (still have an 18' flats boat) and moved up into cruising. My wife and I run our own business and I have traveled for work my entire career, at my own expense and to mostly non glamorous places. Even when I visit a cool place for work I am in and out so fast that I get very little feel for it. One night spent in a mid level hotel off of the interstate in one place is pretty much the same as one night spent in any other place. My focus is always on being efficient and getting the most in sales for the least expenditure. It's not a lot of fun, honestly, though it is better than going to a cube every day.



The one thing that sounds different is that we took a step up into bigger boats about 15 years ago. We bought a 1973 36' Gulfstar in 2005, then moved up into our current 2005 Mainship 400 in 2013. For us, that was a good thing that took some of the steepness out of the learning curve.



I was very experienced with smaller boats, I worked for 13 years as a fishing guide (second job) and commercial fished when I was younger. I grew up on the water in Fort Myers where my family had a long string of boats, often two or three at a time. I had enough logged deck time when I got my captain's license in 1998 to bump up to a master's ticket. That said, I still had a lot to learn about bigger boats, their systems and diesel motors.



Maybe you should buy something now, something more manageable, use it for 5 or 6 years and then sell it? Just a thought.

.... and I have traveled for work my entire career, at my own expense and to mostly non glamours places. Even when I visit a cool place for work I am in and out so fast that I get very little feel for it. One night spend in a mid level hotel off of the interstate in one place is pretty much the same as one night spent in any other place.
The one thing that sounds different is that we took a step up into bigger boats about 15 years ago. We bought a 1973 36' Gulfstar in 2005, then moved up into our current 2005 Mainship 400 in 2013. For us, that was a good thing that took some of the steepness out of the learning curve.

Maybe you should buy something now, something more manageable, use it for 5 or 6 years and then sell it? Just a thought.[/QUOTE]


Amen on the travel routine - Although I have been using other peoples money for all expenses! I always longed for the unique in a sea of sameness across the United States. We can be so boring with one city identical to the last. Chain stores and restarants repeat repeat repeat... There are few towns where if you were helicoptered in blindfolded you could tell where you were. That said I truly enjoy(ed) the experience, the people, and finding the unique places.
Okay on to boats....Wish I had moved up early like you but life circumstances dictated otherwise. We had access to a beach house which we now own so it never made sense to buy bigger as that would directly compete against an asset in hand.
Same story today. Don't necessarily want to buy up until we are ready to cruise without worry of pesky work getting in the way and use the beach house during the summer months and my Robalo to stay connected to the water.

Love your prep! Friendly reminder, being as prepared as you can be and prepared are not necessarily the same thing.

Right now you are evaluating everything based on your personal vision of what you want boating to be like. That vision IS distorted. Humans nearly always apply cognitive dissonance to form biases that only process information that fits their internal model of the world. So in some ways, you will certainly be overconfident as a result of your preparation. Determining what those things are is really really hard, even for those trained in doing so. Professionally, I’m skeptical of people who tell me they have “handled” their biases. I’d rather hear a blanket statement of “here are the areas we are likely biased”, “here are our key assumptions”.
Human nature is to strongly bias towards the information they have, with complete and total disregard for the information they don’t, even when they know their information is incomplete. Anything you can do to remind yourself of the areas that you are unsure of, is worth doing. The absolute worst offenders in this? Ironically, the full time user researchers, often doctorate level, very smart, very capable. Humans just can’t resist crediting themselves with knowing everything and experience actually makes the problem worse. The more you think you know, the less you are willing to observe even obvious things right in front of you. So beware, your prep is commendable, but comes with a dark side.

Many if not most new boaters find that the boat they thought they wanted is ultimately NOT the boat they actually want, once they get a little experience. It would be arrogant to think you are immune. Find a way to go boating in such a way that you can change your mind without losing your war chest. Renting may seem expensive, but weigh it against the realistic costs of buying a second time. Don’t be in a hurry. Just find a way to get out in the areas you want to be in. It’s that simple and that hard!

Best of luck.

^ "You don't know what you don't know."

There is a constant running argument on boating and airplane forums about buying small and easy and then working your way "up" through subsequent purchases, vs. "buying your last boat [airplane] first" and methodically (and with expert assistance if necessary) learning how to operate it properly and safely. This assuming that your finances can bear either strategy depending on your individual circumstances.

I have the bug too, and among other things there is a tension between my relative need and desire to be able to single-hand something when the need or desire arises, vs. having the size we need or at least want as a family for voyaging, and the heft and various capacities and features we want for the type of voyaging we think we might do.

"

ghost said:

Love your prep! Friendly reminder, being as prepared as you can be and prepared are not necessarily the same thing. Many if not most new boaters find that the boat they thought they wanted is ultimately NOT the boat they actually want, once they get a little experience. It would be arrogant to think you are immune."


Oh, I am definitely far from Prepared and probably never will be! The Ocean is big and unforgiving - not a place to be cocky. As far a picking the right boat for what I think I want to do...who the heck knows. The F55 is my best guess and I look forward to finding out if she is.

Your other points are all very good. Lest you think otherwise please know I am no doctor! I've succeeded in life not from being the smartest but from being a decent human being. So I hope I don't come across as overconfident...I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I don't know and I am very humble about my research and preparation. It is not absolute for sure - just a beginning!! Keeps me on my toes to be on the lookout for new information and this is a great forum to collect opinions and thoughtful insight such as yours.

Thanks for the input - I will definitely take it to heart.

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Greetings,
Aside to the other TF members: Heh, heh...Wait until Mr. F. starts asking about anchors.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Aside to the other TF members: Heh, heh...Wait until Mr. F. starts asking about anchors.

Click to expand...

NOPE - I am half way through Hinz' The Complete Book of Anchoring and my wife and I took the Boaters University's "Anchors and Anchoring" course taught by Chuck Howley.
I am definitely NOT going to risk this kind of investment to poor ground tackle or an insufficient anchor for the bottom you are anchoring in!

One of your goals is to single hand the boat. Depending how the boats equipped, it is possible. Of coursed you need to handle your own lines too.
You might investigate wireless controls. Then make a plan.... start main and generator, pull in shore power and then plan which lines to take in when. Then which lines go over first.
When at the helm, who is going to relieve you when you need to relieve yourself? Who's going to relieve you at the helm when you get tired? A trustworthy auto pilot can go a long way to assist you if you are away from shore and not in the shipping lanes.
Soooooooo, I would recommend and encourage you to take someone with you.
Yes, it can be done but, I discourage from trying it for more than a few hours.
You would not be the first person to fall asleep without warning and run the boat into the shore or worse.
Traveling at 7-8 knots can be very boring when alone.

FIRE said:

.

Amen on the travel routine - Although I have been using other peoples money for all expenses! I always longed for the unique in a sea of sameness across the United States. We can be so boring with one city identical to the last. Chain stores and restarants repeat repeat repeat... There are few towns where if you were helicoptered in blindfolded you could tell where you were. That said I truly enjoy(ed) the experience, the people, and finding the unique places.
Okay on to boats....Wish I had moved up early like you but life circumstances dictated otherwise. We had access to a beach house which we now own so it never made sense to buy bigger as that would directly compete against an asset in hand.
Same story today. Don't necessarily want to buy up until we are ready to cruise without worry of pesky work getting in the way and use the beach house during the summer months and my Robalo to stay connected to the water.

Click to expand...

Wifey B: I think you're approaching it all the right way, love your prep. Don't be scared of size, if you can afford the added costs of owning. You're likely use to space in your living arrangements.

Now, have to give you a thought adjustment on sameness across the US. Often times things look the same on the surface. Two house, then really nothing alike. Two meals but one prepared well and one not. Two people but one great to be around and the other a jerk. Well, no two cities in this country the same. You just need to dig deeper and traveling by water allows and encourages that. See them from the water. Walk the city streets when you're not in a hurry. Look at the local arts and crafts. Go to the local museum and find out their history. Look at attractions and see what they're proud of.

FIRE: Contrary to some opinions, try and make your next boat your last boat. Just my opinion. You’ve got lots of experience. The only issues with bigger boats are:

1) more careful, and more consideration when docking.
2) more expensive to maintain and for moorage.

If you have the funds and the means, By all means! Buy what you wish. Just make sure that boat is what you want.

7 years into our boat and we have no regrets...except for some “holy shits!” in the maintenance area this year. But then, that comes under 2) above. You often can’t always be prepared for that.

As others have already mentioned, get yourself on lots of boats and then decide. You should also determine if travelling at “X” speed is sufficient for you, or do you want/need more speed? Full displacement boats cannot be made to go faster.

Jim

FIRE said:

Magna - I have considered between 42' and 55'. Largest boat Ive owned an operated was a 27' Albin Family Cruiser. Today I run a 24' fish boat. My retirement dream boat from about 10 years back was a 44 Nordic Tug with flybridge...Then I saw/considered Full Displacement hulls including Defever, Kady Krogan, Nordhavn, Selene, then shifted to Semi Displacement hulls where I have settled. Looked at Krogan Express, Marlow's, Grand Banks and somewhere in there my favorite .... the Fleming 55. Well engineered and beautiful classic lines.
The jump up scares the living hell out of me!

Click to expand...

The Fleming 55’ is an awesome boat. My dream boat. I love the lines. Only down side is the engine room is somewhat tight because they were trying to keep the CG low so something had to give and it was the engine room. But I could learn to live with it and smile from eat to ear.