Insurance difficulties

Crusty Chief · Oct 26, 2020

As we are continuing our trip south we recently experienced an issue on insurance coverage. It seems that more and more insurance companies are dropping out of coverage for “Hurricane Zones” . In trying to get coverage we seemed to hit a brick wall everywhere especially since we are heading south along Mexico to the Panama Canal and into the Caribbean.
But thanks to Peter Ricks, (the insurance guru here on TF), again, he was able to get us the coverage we wanted, albeit very expensive.
I highly recommend Peter with Novamar for any insurance needs, especially if you are cruising in far off places. Maybe when things settle down a bit this winter a few more companies will provide insurance in the Hurricane zones.

Thanks again Peter!

Alaskan Sea-Duction · Oct 26, 2020

Peter is our insurance guy too. He's our dude!!

I highly recommend him too!

BandB · Oct 26, 2020

I'd reemphasize the value of working with a true Marine Broker, like Peter, and doing so before your special need arises. That way when your existing insurer changes practices, they'll already have a solution ready.

Crusty Chief · Oct 26, 2020

BandB said:
I'd reemphasize the value of working with a true Marine Broker, like Peter, and doing so before your special need arises. That way when your existing insurer changes practices, they'll already have a solution ready.

And we did, by several months, especially when prior carrier issued a non renewal notice because of the areas we were going. The hurdles we encountered, were not many companies were willing to cover the areas we are heading for. With the amount of damage caused by storms over the last few years in the gulf most notably, very few companies are willing to underwrite this area.

We joined the Panama Posse, which as of today consisted of over 120 boats and this appears to be just those heading West to East, I suspect that many or more are on the East to West route. And this is currently a big topic with almost everyone. Our insurance was expiring near the end of the season, maybe that contributed to the issue. Hopefully things will settle down a bit, we will see.

rgano · Oct 26, 2020

Just looked at the Panama Posse. Pretty kewl - wish it had been around in '89 when I was running a crew boat from New Jersey to San Diego.

tiltrider1 · Oct 26, 2020

Peter is not just a good broker. He is a good human being.

Alaskan Sea-Duction · Oct 26, 2020

Hey Peter,

How has the NTSB report on the diver boat fire affected the industry?

Pau Hana · Oct 27, 2020

Thanks, John- glad I was able to step in and get things sorted for you.

Tom-I haven't read the full report, but I believe that this will push charter insurers to tighten down their underwriting practices and more closely look for assurances that the vessel requesting coverage does not only carry the COI, but is wholly safe for the intended usage.

Comodave · Oct 27, 2020

Unfortunately the CG requirements don’t make sense as to emergency exits. Looking at the photos of the backup emergency exit it looks like a joke. On the top of the 3 high bunks and so tight that you would have to lay on your back and pull yourself up out the hatch, right into the area the fire was concentrated. The regulations need updating badly.

BandB · Oct 27, 2020

Comodave said:
Unfortunately the CG requirements don’t make sense as to emergency exits. Looking at the photos of the backup emergency exit it looks like a joke. On the top of the 3 high bunks and so tight that you would have to lay on your back and pull yourself up out the hatch, right into the area the fire was concentrated. The regulations need updating badly.

Wifey B: People think....CG has regulations. Boat meats regulations. Boat is safe. :nonono:

Non sequitur. But that's true in lots of thing. Your office meets fire code. That's a minimum. Doesn't mean it's as safe as it could be. Same with your home. When other's lives are put at risk, we all must do more and in a completive business that can be hard. Means spending more than the other guy.

We can't say because everyone else is doing it, it's ok, or because the CG hasn't failed it, that it's ok. As a captain, I go out feeling we're not going to flip, not going to catch fire, not going to sink, but I have to have a plan in case any of those things happen. :ermm:

Alaskan Sea-Duction · Oct 27, 2020

Pau Hana said:
Thanks, John- glad I was able to step in and get things sorted for you.

Tom-I haven't read the full report, but I believe that this will push charter insurers to tighten down their underwriting practices and more closely look for assurances that the vessel requesting coverage does not only carry the COI, but is wholly safe for the intended usage.

So do you think it will bleed over to recreational boats? Its all about profits.

Pau Hana · Oct 27, 2020

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
So do you think it will bleed over to recreational boats? Its all about profits.

I don’t know. Rec Marine and Comm’l Marine don’t have much bleedover actuarially speaking. It’s a good bet that markets that play on both sides of the fence may have rate adjustments, but I don’t see this single incident as having a profound effect on Rec Marine rates in general.

twistedtree · Oct 28, 2020

It certainly had an impact on us in detailing our boat build. Much more attention was paid to exit paths from sleeping quarters, and modifications made.

On a sister boat a ceiling escape hatch was created. Our boat layout didn't lend itself to that since the escape hatch would have sent you to the same location as the primary stairway escape route. That was the fundamental problem on the dive boat. Both escape routes lead to the same burning salon.

Instead our second escape route (this is all from the lower level) is out through the ER and laz, then out the laz hatch. The challenge was that the laz couldn't be opened from the inside. Check you boat if this is a viable escape route, because I'll bet it's a dead end. The yard building the boat came up with a clever release mechanism so you can now escape via that path.

sunchaser · Oct 28, 2020

tiltrider1 said:
Peter is not just a good broker. He is a good human being.

Yes he is. We met him a few years ago at Shilshole Marina. Even gave me a ride downtown! TF is fortunate to have onboard an insurance pro who knows boats.

Comodave · Oct 28, 2020

twistedtree said:
It certainly had an impact on us in detailing our boat build. Much more attention was paid to exit paths from sleeping quarters, and modifications made.

On a sister boat a ceiling escape hatch was created. Our boat layout didn't lend itself to that since the escape hatch would have sent you to the same location as the primary stairway escape route. That was the fundamental problem on the dive boat. Both escape routes lead to the same burning salon.

Instead our second escape route (this is all from the lower level) is out through the ER and laz, then out the laz hatch. The challenge was that the laz couldn't be opened from the inside. Check you boat if this is a viable escape route, because I'll bet it's a dead end. The yard building the boat came up with a clever release mechanism so you can now escape via that path.

When we bought our current boat the PO had removed the escape hatch from the aft cabin and decked it over with teak decking to match the rest of the sundeck. I took my dog with me right after we closed on it and spent 3 weeks working on it and replacing all the electronics. (Of course before we even got to use the boat the brand new electronics were outdated). The absolute first job was to cut the deck open and install a new hatch in case of fire. I did it the day after we got to Virginia and the first night I was uncomfortable sleeping in the aft cabin knowing if a fire broke out I wouldn’t have a way to escape from the aft cabin. Also I figured out that I needed a short 3 step ladder to even get out of the new hatch. Now we have a plan to get out and a smoke detector system that are linked together.

Insurance difficulties

Crusty Chief

Guru

Alaskan Sea-Duction

Guru

BandB

Guru

Crusty Chief

Guru

rgano

Guru

tiltrider1

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Alaskan Sea-Duction

Guru

Pau Hana

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Comodave

Moderator Emeritus

BandB

Guru

Alaskan Sea-Duction

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Pau Hana

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twistedtree

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sunchaser

Guru

Comodave

Moderator Emeritus

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