Manatee or Hatteras

dhorn · Oct 21, 2020

Up and coming owner here, new to the forum but you all seem like aUp group to bounce ideas off of and get great feedback, so thank you all in advance.

Our main quandary is which boat to focus our search upon and the upsides and downsides of both.

My wife and I are going to do The Loop in the next year or so and will be purchasing our first >28 boat to do it in over the next 0-6 months.

We have been looking at a really nice Hatteras 40DC and a couple of solid Krogen Manatee 36's.

Quick questions:

1) According to the Hatteras guy the twins running at 8 knots required approx. 10 gph which is hard to believe but I'm willing to believe if I can understand how. Krogen 90 hp is about 6 gph at 8 knots I believe.

2) Based #1 we wonder how much it will set us back in fuel Hat vs Manatee for the approx. 5,600 miles, we figure $24k for the Hat and $6k for the Krogen at 8 knots and $4/gallon diesel but any ideas?

3) To those that have done this trip, what are your thoughts about the living space for this trip, we might have the occasional guest but generally just the two of us and our little dog for the loop.

So are we crazy to even think the 36' could be viable?
Are the fuel numbers from the owner even possible?
Resale potential after the loop better for one over the other?
Should we be looking at some other models with the understanding that this is going to be a looper for now and upgrading to a liveaboard eventually if we like it.

Thank you for any insights and I look forward to hearing from you all soon.

Take care, stay well,
Dan

boathealer · Oct 21, 2020

dhorn said:
Up and coming owner here, new to the forum but you all seem like aUp group to bounce ideas off of and get great feedback, so thank you all in advance.

Our main quandary is which boat to focus our search upon and the upsides and downsides of both.

My wife and I are going to do The Loop in the next year or so and will be purchasing our first >28 boat to do it in over the next 0-6 months.

We have been looking at a really nice Hatteras 40DC and a couple of solid Krogen Manatee 36's.

Quick questions:

1) According to the Hatteras guy the twins running at 8 knots required approx. 10 gph which is hard to believe but I'm willing to believe if I can understand how. Krogen 90 hp is about 6 gph at 8 knots I believe.

2) Based #1 we wonder how much it will set us back in fuel Hat vs Manatee for the approx. 5,600 miles, we figure $24k for the Hat and $6k for the Krogen at 8 knots and $4/gallon diesel but any ideas?

3) To those that have done this trip, what are your thoughts about the living space for this trip, we might have the occasional guest but generally just the two of us and our little dog for the loop.

So are we crazy to even think the 36' could be viable?

Are the fuel numbers from the owner even possible?

Resale potential after the loop better for one over the other?

Should we be looking at some other models with the understanding that this is going to be a looper for now and upgrading to a liveaboard eventually if we like it.

Thank you for any insights and I look forward to hearing from you all soon.

Take care, stay well,
Dan

My wife and I have been full-time liveaboards on our N37 for over two years. PLENTY of room for us and an occasional guest or two.

We average ~3.5mpg at 7mph (data averaged over 1800nm)

rslifkin · Oct 21, 2020

8 kts is faster than an efficient cruise speed for either boat. 6.5 - 7 kts would be more realistic. The Hatteras will burn a little more fuel, but 10 gph (total) at 8 kts sounds too high. In terms of speed, the Hatteras will be capable of higher speeds than the Manatee if you want to be able to go faster, but fuel burn will be much higher at higher speeds.

HiDHo · Oct 21, 2020

Fuel burn for our Manatee with a 100 hp diesel engine and 5 kw generator is right at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gph at 7 1/2 mph +or -.
We cruise at 50 to 60 miles per day usually and have done 80 to 85 miles doing sunrise to set if required

rslifkin · Oct 21, 2020

HiDHo said:
Fuel burn for our Manatee with a 100 hp diesel engine and 5 kw generator is right at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gph at 7 1/2 mph.

That seems more like it. And that's 6.5 kts, so a good speed for the boat. If the Manatee burns 1.5 gph doing that, I'd expect somewhere around 2 - 3 gph from the Hatteras at 6.5 - 7 kts.

Comodave · Oct 21, 2020

dhorn said:
Up and coming owner here, new to the forum but you all seem like aUp group to bounce ideas off of and get great feedback, so thank you all in advance.

Our main quandary is which boat to focus our search upon and the upsides and downsides of both.

My wife and I are going to do The Loop in the next year or so and will be purchasing our first >28 boat to do it in over the next 0-6 months.

We have been looking at a really nice Hatteras 40DC and a couple of solid Krogen Manatee 36's.

Quick questions:

1) According to the Hatteras guy the twins running at 8 knots required approx. 10 gph which is hard to believe but I'm willing to believe if I can understand how. Krogen 90 hp is about 6 gph at 8 knots I believe.

2) Based #1 we wonder how much it will set us back in fuel Hat vs Manatee for the approx. 5,600 miles, we figure $24k for the Hat and $6k for the Krogen at 8 knots and $4/gallon diesel but any ideas?

3) To those that have done this trip, what are your thoughts about the living space for this trip, we might have the occasional guest but generally just the two of us and our little dog for the loop.

So are we crazy to even think the 36' could be viable?

Are the fuel numbers from the owner even possible?

Resale potential after the loop better for one over the other?

Should we be looking at some other models with the understanding that this is going to be a looper for now and upgrading to a liveaboard eventually if we like it.

Thank you for any insights and I look forward to hearing from you all soon.

Take care, stay well,
Dan

Either your math is off or you had a typo. The Manatee at 1.33 kmpg and 5600 kmiles that is about 4200 gallons. At $4 per gallon that calculates to $16.2K for the Manatee not $6K.

The numbers quoted for fuel burn seem reasonable. Why are you only looking at these 2 boats? There are way more boats that can make sense for the loop. I would not restrict your shopping to these 2. First they are 2 very different types of boats. Not saying they are bad choices, but why narrow the search? I would recommend making lists of must haves, like to haves and must not haves. Then look at all boats that fit those lists mostly. Keep in mind you probably will not get exactly what you want, all boats are trade offs. Then look for the boat in the best condition that fits in your budget. Getting the best condition boat would over rule a lot of things.

High Wire · Oct 21, 2020

Your numbers look out of whack high with other similar boats.

The Manatee will use < 2 gph at about 6.5-7.0 knots. Figure 2000 gallons for the whole loop.
The Hat should be around 6 gph at about 7.0 knots. Figure at least 5000 gallons.
Add 1.0 gph for running a fully loaded 8kw genset.

HiDHo · Oct 21, 2020

dhorn said:
Quick questions:

So are we crazy to even think the 36' could be viable?

No my wife and I looped in a Monk36 ( powered by a 135 hp engine and 8kw generator, it was a 6 to 6 1/2 knot boat ) and had two guest aboard for a week. The Monk might be another choice. I’am biased of course IMO the Manatee a much more comfortable choice manly because of no interior stairs, galley layout and large salon. Skipper Bob of the many guide books fame, looped in a Manatee and there’s a couple who are the number of loops completed champions, must be on there 27th or so.
Retail value for selling after the loop anyone’s guess. We sold our Monk36 after the loop for about 85% of what we had invested in it in upgrades. IMO the Krogen Manatee, Hatteras or Monk36 good resale choices.

boatpoker · Oct 21, 2020

HiDHo said:
Fuel burn for our Manatee with a 100 hp diesel engine and 5 kw generator is right at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gph at 7 1/2 mph +or -.
We cruise at 50 to 60 miles per day usually and have done 80 to 85 miles doing sunrise to set if required

Don't know where the OP got his extremely high fuel use numbers for the Manatee but yours are much more realistic.

boatpoker · Oct 21, 2020

Our Benford 38 Fantail with a 55hp Mitsubishi runs 1800rpm and 7.2knots using 0.75gph.

$1300 in fuel from Toronto to Bahamas and return.

Comodave · Oct 21, 2020

boatpoker said:
Our Benford 38 Fantail with a 55hp Mitsubishi runs 1800rpm and 7.2knots using 0.75gph.

$1300 in fuel from Toronto to Bahamas and return.

Nice numbers but not the usual size of power in most of our boats. Most of our boats are way overpowered.

boatpoker · Oct 21, 2020

Comodave said:
Nice numbers but not the usual size of power in most of our boats. Most of our boats are way overpowered.

Yup ! Never understood the need for 120 - 600hp that I see in trawlers (displacement) all the time.

O C Diver · Oct 21, 2020

I did the Loop in 2017 at 7 knots. No reason to go faster. Over 6,500 miles was less than 2,000 gallons of fuel. Using Waterway guide it was easy to find the cheap fueling stops. Doubt you will pay over $3 per gallon.

I would vote for the manatee. Figure 1,200 to 1,400 gallons for maybe $4,500.

Ted

boatpoker · Oct 21, 2020

O C Diver said:
I did the Loop in 2017 at 7 knots. No reason to go faster. Over 6,500 miles was less than 2,000 gallons of fuel. Using Waterway guide it was easy to find the cheap fueling stops. Doubt you will pay over $3 per gallon.

I would vote for the manatee. Figure 1,200 to 1,400 gallons for maybe $4,500.

Ted

+1

mvweebles · Oct 21, 2020

boatpoker said:
Our Benford 38 Fantail with a 55hp Mitsubishi runs 1800rpm and 7.2knots using 0.75gph.

$1300 in fuel from Toronto to Bahamas and return.

Very impressive. My Willard 36 runs 7.2 kts at around 1.0 gph.

Knot Fast · Oct 21, 2020

I took a similar journey as the OP.
Started looking at Hatteras, loved the wood work of the older models but big engines and big maintenance moved me on...
Fell in love with the Manatee after seeing 2 beautiful examples that were not for sale. These friends have superior boats. Sadly, no well maintained examples were available when I was shopping - looked at 5!
Then I saw this weird looking boat - Great Harbour GH37. Like a Manatee, newer, twin engine, pilot house.
8 mph, 2.3g/h, ~3.5mpg, ~1500 mile range. You can find cheap diesel every 1500 miles. I bought fuel at Thunderbolt, GA last week, $2.16/g.
Did I mention the 3' draft...

dhorn · Oct 22, 2020

Wow! What can I say but you all have far exceeded my expectations and I love the responses, thank you so much!

It does look like my numbers are quite a bit off when it comes to fuel consumption and we'll have to rethink those costs based upon your fine analysis and details but I'm sure the loop will be doable.

boathealer: I hadn't looked at the N37 but it really looks amazing! Our price range right now is topping out at about $130k so quite a bit out of our price range but it could be "the next" boat if, as they say, my ship comes in! ;-)

rslifkin: I've been using 8kts for all my thinking and to your point it does appear that we'd be running about 6-7 kts so that could be a good savings and it does seem that that Hatteras wouldn't burn a whole lot more fuel.

HiDHo: I actually hadn't put in the fuel cost for the generator into my thinking, appreciate that reminder of the reality of cruising! I'll take a look at the Monks, but love the look of the Manatee and the wide beam.

Comodave: Yes, the calculations are way off and the reality is that we have to stick to the fuel usage per boat and not subconsciously make the smaller boat an easy choice.

highwire, boatpoker, O C Diver, Knot Fast, and mvweebles, thanks you so much for your insights and support and information this is a great forum!

I went back to the drawing board a bit last night and have contacted the broker on the Hatteras and have three Manatee from Yacht World that I'm checking out.

Does anyone have info on any of these you'd care to share?

Were there any major changes/updates/or issues between years of Manatee builds that I should be aware of when choosing years?

1984 Suzie Q - Clevland, OH
1985 Roxanne - Mobile, AL
1986 Eltinar - Grand Rivers, KY

Thank you all again for your excellent advice!

Dan and Cynthia

Jango · Oct 22, 2020

Should you be looking at other boats?
Not a fan of big HP cruisers at all. Quick search showed me what the Hatteras DC looks like. Also not a fan of galley down.
I’d say take a peak at the newly listed 43 Defever in Tampa. In your price range, stabilized and long range with twin 120s. Seems like a very well equipped and maintained boat for the loop and liveaboard

dhorn · Oct 22, 2020

Jango, Absolutley but don't really know what to look so your suggestion is definitely appreciated. I'll check out the DeFever in Tampa this morning!

dhorn · Oct 22, 2020

We live in Marietta, GA and were thinking to put the boat in Chattanooga, TN till we loop since it's 1.5 hours and we can learn on the lake. So getting a boat to TN will be an issue as well but we'll have to figure out that budget once we decide on something I suppose. ;-)

TexasBryan · Oct 22, 2020

As others eluded to, pay close attention to the boat's condition. A boat with a low asking price that was not properly maintained can quickly become much more expensive than a boat with a higher asking price that has been well maintained.

Any major repair will make you forget all about the fuel budget.

Ivy Lincoln · Oct 26, 2020

I’ve gone from a 43’ Hatteras Double Cabin to the Manatee and not looked back. The K-K Manatee is incredibly comfortable and economical on the Loop. We met 4 others of the 99 made in just half of the Loop. With a 100 hp Yanmar and a 5kw Northern Lights, we use just over a gallon per hour, while the Hatteras used over a gallon per mile. We leave no wake at 6 mph, which you have to slow down to frequently if you’re courteous and law-abiding. You can converse in whispers in the pilot house underway. I think Jim Krogen designed her specifically for the Loop.

joeltten · Oct 26, 2020

Hatteras 40DC

I have a Hattera 40 DC with 3208 Cats. 1200 RPM results in 7.5 kts at 4 Gallons per hour.

healhustler · Oct 26, 2020

Our 1987 Manatee seems closer to the estimates give by HiDHo. The hull is easy to push and even our 140 Yanmar re-power sees the same approximate numbers as the 100 Volvo throughout its RPM range. The original 55 Perkins engines in the first dozen or so hulls easily achieved hull speed.

I concur with the posters above that you really should be considering other models. In this price range, if economic, comfortable loop-type cruising at trawler speeds with two aboard is what you have in mind, consider the Willard 36 and 40, Prairie 36, and Pilgrim 40 & 43. If you prefer twin engine examples, there is even a greater abundance. The later model Great Harbour N-37 and GH-37’s out do even the bulbous Manatee for living space per foot, but at a premium.

Best of luck with your search, and have fun.

mickand · Oct 28, 2020

I've checked with a couple who have done the loop 30 yes 30 times on their Manatee 36.
At 7mph they burn 2.3 gallons per hour.
Can't see a Hatteras getting close to this.

boatpoker · Oct 28, 2020

mickand said:
I've checked with a couple who have done the loop 30 yes 30 times on their Manatee 36.
At 7mph they burn 2.3 gallons per hour.
Can't see a Hatteras getting close to this.

That is pretty close to double what it should be .... sure you got that right ?

HiDHo · Oct 28, 2020

It might be because they tow a very large inflatable.

Pack Mule · Oct 28, 2020

Have you looked at a 42 Hatteras LRC?

HiDHo · Oct 28, 2020

This photo might explain 2.3 gph !

MacPhid · Oct 28, 2020

We completed the loop in 2019 in 363 days. I would estimate that fuel accounted for only about 20% of our total expenses for the year. We cruised 6026 miles burning 2960 US gallons of diesel in 792 engine hours in our 1989 Bayliner 38 with twin 175 HP NA Hino diesels. Averaging $3.00 US per gallon was under $9000.00 for fuel, averaged over the year to less than $25.00 per day on the loop. I think you’ll find that this is fairly average for loopers. Some use more, some use less, but the cost isn’t that much overall. Either boat would be a good choice for the trip.

James

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