Northern Spy
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App for tides?
- Thread starter MurrayM
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
SteveK
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"As I write this, high tide in Seymour Narrows is in 12 minutes. High tide in Campbell River, about 6 miles away is almost 2 hours from now."
Spy, you probably know that Campbell River is near a mid point where the currents incoming from the NW and SE meet head on.
Your example is actually 1:35 time difference and CR is less than a foot lower high tide. You also know that seymour narrows is the bottleneck and the tidal wave can crest higher in that area, then drop again as the channel widens.
My over simplified suggestion can still be applied to locations NW of Seymour narrows, as I suggested AND SE of Campbell river. Neither can be used with my suggestion for the 6 miles between as both would be down current.
It was not my intent to rewrite actual tides, just provide an useable way to estimate.
Spy, you probably know that Campbell River is near a mid point where the currents incoming from the NW and SE meet head on.
Your example is actually 1:35 time difference and CR is less than a foot lower high tide. You also know that seymour narrows is the bottleneck and the tidal wave can crest higher in that area, then drop again as the channel widens.
My over simplified suggestion can still be applied to locations NW of Seymour narrows, as I suggested AND SE of Campbell river. Neither can be used with my suggestion for the 6 miles between as both would be down current.
It was not my intent to rewrite actual tides, just provide an useable way to estimate.
boathealer
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Looks like fly stuff to me.
Like it matters whether you get home at 17:10 or 17:20 .... ???
Like it matters whether you get home at 17:10 or 17:20 .... ???
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
T
Hi Eric,
The original reason was a ways back, quoted above.
Imagine wanting to enter an inlet off one of the mainland channels (between far off tidal stations) and you want to know how much water is over the rock that protects the inlets narrow entrance. It’s getting late and you know if you go for it, and the rock isn’t covered, you’ll have to anchor in the next available anchorage 20 miles away in the dark.
As it stands now, I’d anchor safely and try the next day when there would be a bit more wiggle room time wise.
Was just wondering if there was something out there...
Hi Eric,
The original reason was a ways back, quoted above.
Imagine wanting to enter an inlet off one of the mainland channels (between far off tidal stations) and you want to know how much water is over the rock that protects the inlets narrow entrance. It’s getting late and you know if you go for it, and the rock isn’t covered, you’ll have to anchor in the next available anchorage 20 miles away in the dark.
As it stands now, I’d anchor safely and try the next day when there would be a bit more wiggle room time wise.
Was just wondering if there was something out there...
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Hey Murray,
From my perspective if you head up an inlet and see you’re only making 2 knots there are options. The tide height in the area should be viewed as high or low, incoming or out going and a look at the chart via plotter or actual chart.
Having done that you know more or less whether the current you’re bucking will last, increase or decrease and more.
What more do you need to know?
We started up Knight Inlet a few years back and were astonished to see we were only making two knots. I guess my decision to Keep at it may have been based on not having any fair anchorages nearby. I think we were at it for 2-3hrs and it was starting to get oil. But as we got closer to Chatham Channel our speed ... slowly ... picked up. And it didn’t seem long till we were making 10 knots west down the channel watching others buck the tide.
The rock that you mention above .. does it cross the whole entrance to the inlet w no gaps? I’ve never seen anything like that. But if you can’t get over it safely on low water then of course you should wait.
But me being a casual boater in many respects sets me apart from most. I don’t use waypoints either. Having the ability to predict ETA’s and turn points is not enough reason to do it. And I can’t even remember a time of trouble as a result of my going forth w timing and tides estimated by “good enough” methods have got me into trouble. IMO modern electronic navigation just isn’t necessary or may even to an extent a waste of time.
One 50knot gale we were in I knew was coming and planed on spending the night in Allison Harbour. A bomb proof anchorage.
The second gale was at Patterson Inlet .. not what you’d call a bullet proof spot but I’d been there before and thought it was fine. But that was alone and there were two over 40’ boats already there. And there wasn’t a harbour within a days run from this spot. It was too exciting to be sure but high tech electronics wouldn’t have made a difference ... probably. I can think of some scenarios that may have made high level navigation an asset.
But overall knowing a specific time of ETA’s and exact tide heights along the way is just not needed information. I do, however get tides at fairly wide spaced places on my chart plotter.
From my perspective if you head up an inlet and see you’re only making 2 knots there are options. The tide height in the area should be viewed as high or low, incoming or out going and a look at the chart via plotter or actual chart.
Having done that you know more or less whether the current you’re bucking will last, increase or decrease and more.
What more do you need to know?
We started up Knight Inlet a few years back and were astonished to see we were only making two knots. I guess my decision to Keep at it may have been based on not having any fair anchorages nearby. I think we were at it for 2-3hrs and it was starting to get oil. But as we got closer to Chatham Channel our speed ... slowly ... picked up. And it didn’t seem long till we were making 10 knots west down the channel watching others buck the tide.
The rock that you mention above .. does it cross the whole entrance to the inlet w no gaps? I’ve never seen anything like that. But if you can’t get over it safely on low water then of course you should wait.
But me being a casual boater in many respects sets me apart from most. I don’t use waypoints either. Having the ability to predict ETA’s and turn points is not enough reason to do it. And I can’t even remember a time of trouble as a result of my going forth w timing and tides estimated by “good enough” methods have got me into trouble. IMO modern electronic navigation just isn’t necessary or may even to an extent a waste of time.
One 50knot gale we were in I knew was coming and planed on spending the night in Allison Harbour. A bomb proof anchorage.
The second gale was at Patterson Inlet .. not what you’d call a bullet proof spot but I’d been there before and thought it was fine. But that was alone and there were two over 40’ boats already there. And there wasn’t a harbour within a days run from this spot. It was too exciting to be sure but high tech electronics wouldn’t have made a difference ... probably. I can think of some scenarios that may have made high level navigation an asset.
But overall knowing a specific time of ETA’s and exact tide heights along the way is just not needed information. I do, however get tides at fairly wide spaced places on my chart plotter.
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OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Hi Eric,
It wasn't current I was pondering, but water depth.
There are two spots close to Kitimat I can think of where knowing the actual water depth ahead of time would be handy;
Foch Lagoon...that's the one that can be 15 to 45 (IIRC) minutes after the Prince Rupert times. Why they do that when there's a tidal station only 20 miles away in Kitimat, I don't know. Maybe because the first notation on the chart was done before the station at Kitimat existed.
I chicken scratched a series of estimates, where a 15 minute delay was for a very small tide and the 45 minute delay was for a King Tide. I guestimated the times in-between, but haven't been out there to confirm if I got close or not.
Timing this one is critical. I've been on shore at the entrance when it was low tide in Douglas Channel and I was looking about 10' up to the water surface in the lagoon a couple hundred feet away, and the rapids were standing wave whitecaps who's tops exploded after they got about 5' tall.
Kiltuish Inlet off Gardner Canal has the rock I was thinking about. There's enough room to squeeze by, but it would generate some pretty squirrelly currents at any other time than high slack. There is a place to drop the hook and watch, but the wind would have to cooperate.
There are other spots, but hopefully they give you an idea why such an app would be handy. Not necessary, but handy.
It wasn't current I was pondering, but water depth.
There are two spots close to Kitimat I can think of where knowing the actual water depth ahead of time would be handy;
Foch Lagoon...that's the one that can be 15 to 45 (IIRC) minutes after the Prince Rupert times. Why they do that when there's a tidal station only 20 miles away in Kitimat, I don't know. Maybe because the first notation on the chart was done before the station at Kitimat existed.
I chicken scratched a series of estimates, where a 15 minute delay was for a very small tide and the 45 minute delay was for a King Tide. I guestimated the times in-between, but haven't been out there to confirm if I got close or not.
Timing this one is critical. I've been on shore at the entrance when it was low tide in Douglas Channel and I was looking about 10' up to the water surface in the lagoon a couple hundred feet away, and the rapids were standing wave whitecaps who's tops exploded after they got about 5' tall.
Kiltuish Inlet off Gardner Canal has the rock I was thinking about. There's enough room to squeeze by, but it would generate some pretty squirrelly currents at any other time than high slack. There is a place to drop the hook and watch, but the wind would have to cooperate.
There are other spots, but hopefully they give you an idea why such an app would be handy. Not necessary, but handy.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Yes I do get it.
Would be nice but in that situation whenever you get there you’ll prolly wait around for quite awhile before going for it. So the app will only be able to save you a little time re how much waiting you do. You’ll probably get there early as there’s no exact time you’ll have known when to enter the rapids. But I would think there would be a tide table that would tell you the minute slack begins.
I remember doing that at Fords Terror in the south end of Endicott Arm south of Juneau. The boaters in Juneau called it “the washing machine”. In my OB boat I had full sized charts w a full sized chart table, a marine radio and a compass. We waited around for about an hour and entered a bit before slack water.
Would be nice but in that situation whenever you get there you’ll prolly wait around for quite awhile before going for it. So the app will only be able to save you a little time re how much waiting you do. You’ll probably get there early as there’s no exact time you’ll have known when to enter the rapids. But I would think there would be a tide table that would tell you the minute slack begins.
I remember doing that at Fords Terror in the south end of Endicott Arm south of Juneau. The boaters in Juneau called it “the washing machine”. In my OB boat I had full sized charts w a full sized chart table, a marine radio and a compass. We waited around for about an hour and entered a bit before slack water.
markpierce
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I've done well with no apps. And with most of the time, without radio, GPS, fathometer or anything beyond charts, compass, tide tables, and binoculars.
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menzies
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How big a bath tub do you have?
markpierce
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As big as pre-1950s, even 1960s to 1980s, sailors and boaters.
OP
OP
MurrayM
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How far north or south of San Fransisco have you been in your boat?
JDCAVE
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I think the biggest issue for the "Central Coast" and "North Coast" areas of BC is the lack of current stations, Primary and Secondary. So Murray, you pretty much have to use the CHS Sailing Directions:
Canadian Hydrographic Service
I see these are now downloadable. They will indicate the currents through some of these areas, offset to other tidal stations, usually Prince Rupert. The Douglass Books also reference these.
The other major issue relates to poor charts in the areas. This is particularly bad for the West Coast of Haida Gwaii (WCHG). The Hydrographic Service is working through this but progress is slow. We found that use of a radar is very important going through small passes as in some cases the shoreline is not marked correctly. Murchison Anchorage is one such area that is has poor surveys and requires careful navigation. We watched the AIS target of the CHS vessel "Otter Bay" travel over "dry land" on the chart as it left the anchorage!
Jim
Canadian Hydrographic Service
I see these are now downloadable. They will indicate the currents through some of these areas, offset to other tidal stations, usually Prince Rupert. The Douglass Books also reference these.
The other major issue relates to poor charts in the areas. This is particularly bad for the West Coast of Haida Gwaii (WCHG). The Hydrographic Service is working through this but progress is slow. We found that use of a radar is very important going through small passes as in some cases the shoreline is not marked correctly. Murchison Anchorage is one such area that is has poor surveys and requires careful navigation. We watched the AIS target of the CHS vessel "Otter Bay" travel over "dry land" on the chart as it left the anchorage!
Jim
Nomad Willy
Guru
Jim,
We were up to the end of an inlet east of Wrangle and the curser on our chart plotter was hundreds of feet overland .. not even on the water. We were (according to the chart plotter) several hundred feet up the shore side that was somewhat vertical.
We were up to the end of an inlet east of Wrangle and the curser on our chart plotter was hundreds of feet overland .. not even on the water. We were (according to the chart plotter) several hundred feet up the shore side that was somewhat vertical.
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