? about PERSONAL Locator Beacon PLB (not EPIRBs)

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RLKramer

RLKramer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
73
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Winterlude
Vessel Make
2005 Hampton 558
We are in open water a fair amount and usually just my wife and me so safety and situational awareness are important. I am considering adding a PLB's to each of our life jackets that should show up on the AIS tracker on our chartplotters.

My understanding is that once activated, any AIS receiver should be able to see our PLB's on their screen if one of should fall overboard. This should be great for us to see if the other fell off when doing the boat walk-around when underway.

Am I right on their usage?
Are they reliable?
Will something "pop-up" on the screen to notify us, say, with an alarm/sounder if it picks something up?

We currently only have the AIS receiver in our new Garmin chart plotter and I am contemplating adding the transponder to make us more visible to other boats, but we only travel in daylight and I am always vigilant watching for other boats.

Again, I am not talking about EPIRBs in the event of whole boat emergencies. I am talking about PLB's.

Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Some terminology: A PLB in common useage is a satellite based locator, using the Solas system, smaller and lighter than an EPIRB but works the same way. It will not show up on your chartplotter. It alerts SAR authorities in a remote location, who will eventually mobilize local resources to try to find you. An AIS MOB beacon is a VHF device. When activated, it sends out an all ships DSC emergency signal, which will alarm and show up on your properly configured chart plotter. It does not notify SAR authorities unless they happen to be in VHF range. There is now another class of beacons being pushed by ACR which are Bluetooth and cell phone based. I'd skip those.

The AIS beacon is your best chance of recovering an MOB short term. The crew left on the boat will get a nearly immediate alarm, along with a position and vectors to that position, as will others in (very short) VHF range. A PLB or EBIRB isn't very good for an MOB, because the turn around time from activation to mobilization of local resources can be many hours. The MOB is likely to be a body recovery at that point. Great for a liferaft or still floating boat though.

The rescueMeMOB1 is very small and can be attached to an inflatable vest in a way that activates automatically. It tested well against competition in the British magazines. It is the one I carry.
 
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I put PLBs on our inflatable PFDs. Too bad the PFD manufacturers do not automatically make allowances for attaching that type of equipment. It took a bit of innovative sewing to get them attached. Ours are manual activation PLB although the PFDs are automatic activation. You have to put the antenna up and then push the activation button. But it does take the search out of SAR. They send the GPS coordinates to the RCC ( Rescue Coordination Center). It then becomes how quickly the nearest rescue unit can get a resource to you. I agree they are not a MOB device. When we are underway we always tell the other person where we are going and what we are doing. We do not go out on deck unless the other person has eyes on you. We have the PLB and a strobe light sewn onto the PFD that we each wear whenever we are underway. If someone is below before they come up they call on the phone or intercom and tell the person at the helm that they are coming up now. That way the helm watch can lookout for the person coming up.
 
Thanks to DDW and Comodave for excellent advice. I am grateful to all of you and welcome further advice for getting this dialed in.
 
Comodave said:
I put PLBs on our inflatable PFDs. Too bad the PFD manufacturers do not automatically make allowances for attaching that type of equipment. It took a bit of innovative sewing to get them attached.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with this. We have the ACR PLBs that have the Velcro straps, but just nowhere on a Type 1 PFD to attach it (offshore only one we wear if we are outside the house). Sian rolls up one sleeve of her top tightly and straps it around that. I am never outside the house when running (and she rarely is), so mine is in a zipped pocket.
 
Even if it is in a pocket you should tie it to the PFD with some small stuff so that if you loose your grip on it while taking it out it will still be tied to the PFD instead of floating away out of reach.

We have the ones with velcro on the PLBs also. I sewed some velcro onto the PFD and velcro the PLB to the PFD. Also have a lanyard to tie the PLB to the PFD. Lots of initials...
 
Comodave said:
Even if it is in a pocket you should tie it to the PFD with some small stuff so that if you loose your grip on it while taking it out it will still be tied to the PFD instead of floating away out of reach.

We have the ones with velcro on the PLBs also. I sewed some velcro onto the PFD and velcro the PLB to the PFD. Also have a lanyard to tie the PLB to the PFD. Lots of initials...
Click to expand...

Story: we were boarded by the CG after coming in through Fort Pierce two years ago. After they did their inspection we were chatting with two of them in the PH. I pulled out my PLB and showed it to them, they both reached into their jacket pockets and pulled out the exact same models!
 
That is the ones that we have. I have had years of experience with them so I bought those for our personal PFDs.
 
Just be aware that with a PLB, it transmits location to the satellite, then it is forwarded to the CG. The CG will then call the number listed on the PLB reg, to find out if it is a false alarm (something like 99% are). Then they will try to find a local SAR resource to start a search. This often takes hours. An AIS MOB beacon will transmit your location to the closest yacht (which is the one you just fell off of) within seconds. I have a PLB but don't carry it on my person when at sea, the turn around time is too long unless you are in a survival suit. The AIS MOB gives you at least some hope, that's the one I carry. It is smaller than the PLB and easily wrapped in your vest.
 
For the immediate notification and locating of a crew overboard, we use the Weems & Plath CrewWatcher. And on our daughter's life jacket we have the Weems & Plath Personal Rescue Strobe (a visual location aid that works best when underway in the dark, which we don't do all that often). The CrewWatcher system also works great if you have a pet onboard. We sell both items in our store.

We also offer a 10% discount to fellow TFers on Weems products with the coupon code WEEMSTFDISCOUNT (all caps).

https://www.pacificnwboatertested.com/products/weems-plath-crewwatcher-mob

https://www.pacificnwboatertested.com/products/weems-plath-personal-rescue-strobe
 
An AIS MOB and a PLB are 2 very different things and serve 2 very different functions. A MOB locator is for when you are going to respond on your own. A PLB is for when you are asking the CG or other organization to come and rescue you. One is not a substitute for the other.
 
DDW said:
Just be aware that with a PLB, it transmits location to the satellite, then it is forwarded to the CG. The CG will then call the number listed on the PLB reg, to find out if it is a false alarm (something like 99% are). Then they will try to find a local SAR resource to start a search. This often takes hours. An AIS MOB beacon will transmit your location to the closest yacht (which is the one you just fell off of) within seconds. I have a PLB but don't carry it on my person when at sea, the turn around time is too long unless you are in a survival suit. The AIS MOB gives you at least some hope, that's the one I carry. It is smaller than the PLB and easily wrapped in your vest.
Click to expand...

Woah...not sure much if any is really accurate as far as procedure...within minutes of a satellite hit of a GPS EPIRB, a USCG helo is turning up and will launch whether any info is verified or not.Rescues get complicated quick, delays can happen, but they are the exception, not the rule.

With a NON GPS EPIRB, things are a little slower as there might not be any decent position info for up to nearly an hour or so.

Telephone calls are made AS the rescue resources are alerted and stood up....a lUSCG aunch might be held if the position report is over land as that usually is Civil Air Patrol and I can expand on their response operations.

While MOB devices give the best chance of the quickest rescue, as once past the initial few minutes of MOB and not found, especially at night (and in cases with no visual signaling devices), the vessel you fell off of is not always the best rescue resource.

Old style EPIRBs had a bad false alarm rates, the newer (say last 20 years or so, especially GPS EPIRBS) have a very low false alarm rate because of the GPS locating and improvements to bracket failures (very high cause) and awareness to other issues.

Comodave is correct when he posted there are different tools for rescue...offshore, either can be the lifesaver. An aside, if you are offshore and its cold enough to need rescue in under an hour....you probably should be in some type of survival gear no matter what electronics you strap on. The key to survival is alway lasting long enough to be rescued, and in any rescue things can take longer than planned.
 
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psneeld said:
Woah...totally false...within minutes of a satellite hit of a GPS EPIRB, a USCG helo is turning up and will launch whether any info is verified or not.

With a NON GPS EPIRB, things are a little slower as there might not be any decent position info for up to nearly an hour or so.

Telephone calls are made AS the rescue resources are alerted and stood up....a lUSCG aunch might be held if the position report is over land as that usually is Civil Air Patrol and I can expand on their response operations.

While MOB devices give the best chance of rescue, as once past the initial few minutes of MOB and not found, especially at night (and in cases with no visual signaling devices), the vessel you fell off of is not always the best rescue resource.

Old style EPIRBs had a bad false alarm rates, the newer (say last 20 years or so, especially GPS EPIRBS) have a very low false alarm rate because of the GPS locating and improvements to bracket failures (very high cause) and awareness to other issues.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that clarification.
 
I added a bit more to that post...
 
May want to read the attainable adventures article about exactly which personal AIS based brand to use. Very informative.
Our working thinking is if you fall off a boat you’re dead. Think we will continue to use harnesses if working outside while underway. Think floatation just makes it easier to have something to bury but our devices have both and spray hoods and crotch straps. . However in spite of that thinking did take our spinlock, mustang and Baltic stuff off the boat to use again. Do have ships epirb and personal ones, do have personal AIS as well. Awaiting a small cost effective combo unit and will buy that when current devices time out.
 
So first make sure your VHFs are tied to your MFD so IF you have to push the 'big red' button your position is also sent at the same time.

ASD has 2 Gumby suits (Cold immersion suits) and each suit has its own PLB. . This way if we are separated, they can still find us.:thumb:

The PLBs also need to be registered each year with NOAA

ResQLink™ - ACR ARTEX
 
psneeld said:
Woah...not sure much if any is really accurate as far as procedure...within minutes of a satellite hit of a GPS EPIRB, a USCG helo is turning up and will launch whether any info is verified or not.Rescues get complicated quick, delays can happen, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Click to expand...

That depends a great deal on where you are. Sure, in LIS or the Chesapeake with resources close at hand you will get a quicker response. I am personally aware of instances when there was significant delay (including a formerly owned EPRIB that triggered accidentally). In more remote areas, a helo is a long time coming even if dispatched promptly, and that is assuming the weather allows flight. I've followed on VHF the progress of many SAR operations, the time line is typically not minutes (in the PNW) and can be hours.

Maybe my perspective is tilted more towards offshore or remote coastal than yours. In cold water, you will be incapacitated in 15 or 20 minutes and dead in 90. Your own boat has a good chance of fishing you out, if: they know you've gone overboard, and they know exactly where you are. The AIS beacon serves both purposes, a PLB does neither.

One category not mentioned so far is the inReach type device. It is slower than either a PLB or AIS beacon, but has the significant advantage of 2-way communication with SAR resources. I own all of the devices mentioned, each has its purpose and attributes, good and bad.
 
DW ...but thats not what you insinuated.

Of course mid ocean rescue is not sudden, I would hope everyone here would know that. Or remote areas like Alaska. And I doubt anyone thinks you will be rescued in minutes using PLB. But that doesn't mean launches don't happen in minutes..the typical launch where I was hard to be 20 minutes, even the dead of night...we often bested that.

In the USCG I was involved with hundreds of EPIRB reports...some were in cas doing 60mph down the turnpike, one was in the middle of a Mexican desert with no way to get there, and too many others to count.

Just letting coastal US and most developed nation boaters that a PLB isn't as scary as you portrayed.

Plus.....as I posted before...if you are boating in water with only possible quick rescue and you aren't in survival gear...shame on you as no electronics may save you. I was one of the main proponents of better survival gear for our rescue crews.

While a MOB device is great....until them, recovery of MOBs by the vessel they fell off of wasn't great for many reasons...even then some take hours to turn and locate the MOB. Hip said it right...the best solution is dont go overboard or be attached.
 
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Having worked with the CG for 30 years, they take every activation very seriously. If you are in a remote area then obviously it will take time to get resources to you. You should expect that and be prepared for that situation. If you aren’t prepared then shame on you and you will probably die. But it certainly doesn’t take hours for the CG to respond to an activation, more like minutes. However travel time is out of their control. When I was training boat crew personnel I used to tell them to bring whatever they needed to complete their mission. That would include any PPE needed.
 
I have AIS MOB on my lifejacket but I also have the OLAS system "wrist watch" that means if someone falls overboard the engine (s) switch off (Outboards at the moment). They can easily be restarted by the remaining crew on board to facilitate a rescue. If you are single handed this means you can swim to the boat as its not far away and in addition it will send an emergency sms to a nominated number. I do also have PLBs, EPIRBs and a SPOT and use them according to what I am doing.
 
psneeld said:
DW ...but thats not what you insinuated.


While a MOB device is great....until them, recovery of MOBs by the vessel they fell off of wasn't great for many reasons...even then some take hours to turn and locate the MOB. Hip said it right...the best solution is dont go overboard or be attached.
Click to expand...
==============================================
well said
I sail (sailboat) but applies to any overnight coastal passage motor or sail.
I single hand so do not have to worry about been picked up from the water: if I fall, I die, simple as that.
I found the only well documented system and research that shows 100% survival rate is NOT TO FALL OVERBOARD.
=============================================
Now occasionally do take crew, first I explain that in my boat there is no MOB system but IOB (Idiot Over Board) that is to emphasize how difficult is to rescue somebody floating in the water at night, and having a MOB system does not mean they will get back On Board.
Even if alerted on time, turning back on difficult weather and sea conditions, and if the person in the water is hypothermic and unable to assist on been lift to deck (do you have a system?)
Hope the message gets thru.
===========================================
With that introduction I do provide the person on watch with personal locators both EPIRB and AIS as well as a hand-held radio to allow to interact.
Have a VESPER AIS transponder and blue toothed to tablets and cells been used for navigation so in theory can locate them in addition to the Vesper screen
===========================================
Because my boat is a sail boat the cockpit has anchoring thru bolted as well on deck securing stainless places to hook the harness, before stepping out of the cabin, have renewed all tethers with double (short and long) the new springy coiled type that do not get tangled on everything as well as replaced all lifejackets with the new type with integrated rings where to hook up the tethers.
Since I am in the process to transition to powerboating will adapt same to flybridge and stairs going down, any time I leave the safety of a cabin MUST be secure to the right side of the boat, seen a video of a skipper been thrown out from the upper bridge when the boat was caught on a broad side wave on an inlet entrance!!
=========================================
Serious business
 
Have done SAS safety at sea several times through the years. Also a member of OCC (Ocean Cruising Club) and Salty Dawg. Do blue water transits. Try to stay abreast on this subject. We are mom and pop cruisers 99% of the time.
Things I’ve glean from the literature and having done multiple man overboard exercises in a variety of conditions.
Fiinding a mob( man overboard) is ridiculously hard. Even with an AIS device. Without either a personal AIS and/or gps and a marker like a MOM-8 person will be likely dead from hypothermia before retrieval if you’re above 40N or in open ocean. Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious. Don’t fall off the boat.
We did training with 2 licensed captains, me and my wife to help train her before her first passage. We did it in 2 to 3 ft. seas, middle of clear days and again at night. We tried to retrieve a 40” bright orange and white beachball. We knew when it was tossed over board.In spite of all those advantages we couldn’t find it. No current and light air.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
We keep reading about crew falling off the boat and drowning as they are pulled along by their harness facing the oncoming water.
So at present when either captain or serving as crew my rules are:
Practice man overboard drills before leaving and periodically.
Test your man overboard equipment periodically including manual inflation and leaving PDFs inflation for 18 h before deflation.
Have both AIS/gps on personal gear. Have cold water one (I use a Baltic) and a warm weather on board ( we use mustang and spinlock). Use only hydrostatic releases.
If leaving the Portuguese bridge be harnessed. Have harness points and jacklines if necessary. Especially at night or in any kind of seaway or singling. Harnesses should have two lengths so while working outside when harnessed you can’t reach the edge of the boat. Usually 3’ and 6’. They say harnesses save your life. PFDs give you a body to bury.
Harnessing is routine on sailboats. My power friends who were sailors use them when circumstances dictate but all to many resist their use even when they know they maybe on deck for awhile fixing something even at night.
We have a personal rule no one goes on deck at night without waking someone up to watch them.
So we cruise and will continue to power cruise with
A certified ocean raft at least sized for number of people aboard. Coastal rafts make no sense to me even if your never going offshore. A single layer of tube, no protection from the elements inadequate floor to protect you from hypothermia.
Both AIS and gps enabled devices
Hydrostatic releases on PDFs or closed foam like a Baltic. With crotch straps, hood, light, whistle etc.
Periodic training.
Periodic testing of devices.
But equally important
A life sling or other equal device for retrieval with arrangements to get mechanical advantage. Either davits, winches or other.
A MOM-8 or equivalent locating device. All crew trained that their first move is stop the boat. Second deployment of the MOM device. Third wake everyone up while trying to keep mom in sight.
My 2 cents.
 
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Sounds like the belt and suspenders approach is to have both the PLB and the AIS MOB on the PFDs for those like the OP are offshore and minimally crewed.
 
Hippocampus said:
Have done SAS safety at sea several times through the years. Also a member of OCC (Ocean Cruising Club) and Salty Dawg. Do blue water transits. Try to stay abreast on this subject. We are mom and pop cruisers 99% of the time.
Things I’ve glean from the literature and having done multiple man overboard exercises in a variety of conditions.
Fiinding a mob( man overboard) is ridiculously hard. Even with an AIS device. Without either a personal AIS and/or gps and a marker like a MOM-8 person will be likely dead from hypothermia before retrieval if you’re above 40N or in open ocean. Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious. Don’t fall off the boat.
We did training with 2 licensed captains, me and my wife to help train her before her first passage. We did it in 2 to 3 ft. seas, middle of clear days and again at night. We tried to retrieve a 40” bright orange and white beachball. We knew when it was tossed over board.In spite of all those advantages we couldn’t find it. No current and light air.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
We keep reading about crew falling off the boat and drowning as they are pulled along by their harness facing the oncoming water.
So at present when either captain or serving as crew my rules are:
Practice man overboard drills before leaving and periodically.
Test your man overboard equipment periodically including manual inflation and leaving PDFs inflation for 18 h before deflation.
Have both AIS/gps on personal gear. Have cold water one (I use a Baltic) and a warm weather on board ( we use mustang and spinlock). Use only hydrostatic releases.
If leaving the Portuguese bridge be harnessed. Have harness points and jacklines if necessary. Especially at night or in any kind of seaway or singling. Harnesses should have two lengths so while working outside when harnessed you can’t reach the edge of the boat. Usually 3’ and 6’. They say harnesses save your life. PFDs give you a body to bury.
Harnessing is routine on sailboats. My power friends who were sailors use them when circumstances dictate but all to many resist their use even when they know they maybe on deck for awhile fixing something even at night.
We have a personal rule no one goes on deck at night without waking someone up to watch them.
So we cruise and will continue to power cruise with
A certified ocean raft at least sized for number of people aboard. Coastal rafts make no sense to me even if your never going offshore. A single layer of tube, no protection from the elements inadequate floor to protect you from hypothermia.
Both AIS and gps enabled devices
Hydrostatic releases on PDFs or closed foam like a Baltic. With crotch straps, hood, light, whistle etc.
Periodic training.
Periodic testing of devices.
But equally important
A life sling or other equal device for retrieval with arrangements to get mechanical advantage. Either davits, winches or other.
A MOM-8 or equivalent locating device. All crew trained that their first move is stop the boat. Second deployment of the MOM device. Third wake everyone up while trying to keep mom in sight.
My 2 cents.
Click to expand...
================================================
Amen

thank you for taking the time to write a comprehensive, detailed and organized review on the subject.
 
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Since your are thinking of adding full AIS, check out this unit. I just posted another thread about this. ANd it does have many functions as it relates to alarms including AIS MOB functions.

https://www2.vespermarine.com/cortex/vhf
 
MISSIONS:
-Single handing/watch: OLAS https://www.acrartex.com/survival-products/acr-olas. Option provides engine shutoff for MOB. You swim to boat.

-PLB w/GPS. MOB: Have strobe too. GPS offers your drifting w/current and/or wind location.

-Eprib for boat. Good if boat stays afloat.

-PLB: Good for boat sinking, as crew/passengers likely will be split up and distanced at rescue.

- And so on. Cover your mission profile with appropriate options. Have a plan B,C,D...
 
gilbertpark said:
I have AIS MOB on my lifejacket but I also have the OLAS system "wrist watch" that means if someone falls overboard the engine (s) switch off (Outboards at the moment). They can easily be restarted by the remaining crew on board to facilitate a rescue. If you are single handed this means you can swim to the boat as its not far away and in addition it will send an emergency sms to a nominated number. I do also have PLBs, EPIRBs and a SPOT and use them according to what I am doing.
Click to expand...

I hate that thing about an SMS to a nominated number. No one ever replies to my texts. Not even the wife. I'd probably be better off texting TikToc.
 
Hippocampus said:
Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
.
Click to expand...

I worked in public safety for decades. What you say is true. Dealing with a truly unconscious (or newly deceased) human is extremely difficult. It's not like carrying a drunk or sleeping person. The patient's muscles relax and are flacid. It's like trying to pick up a big glob of jelly. They run right through your arms. We had special methods of doing it, even a little ole lady took two of us, and I was a lot younger and stronger then and we were doing it on LAND, not on a pitching boat deck. The patient was right the hell in front of us on the floor or in a street, Not 5' below us face down in water. It's hard to do even in controlled circumstances.
 
Davil1 said:
==============================================
if I fall, I die, simple as that.
I found the only well documented system and research that shows 100% survival rate is NOT TO FALL OVERBOARD.
=============================================
Click to expand...

I love this. Best safety device is between your ears. If you're breaking out the EPIRBS, the flares, the AIS beacons, the decoder rings, you're screwed. You're behind 0-2 to Justin Verlander...and you're wearing a blindfold.
 
OK Dave. Which ones are your referring to? I have no clue from your post.:banghead:

Comodave said:
That is the ones that we have. I have had years of experience with them so I bought those for our personal PFDs.
Click to expand...
 
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