Knot A Clue!! Need advise on a 1982 kha shing 40 Spindrift

Ctangermann · Sep 16, 2020

Hi there! Excited to be here to learn and grow! We are looking to buy our very first boat which we will live a board full time. We have found a stunning 1982 kha shing 40 spindrift. The broker sent us a current survey (were were not there for it). I would like to share this survey with you and get your thoughts! We are super "green" to boating and would love some help! *I don't know how to share a file one here*

Comodave · Sep 16, 2020

Welcome aboard. Have you found insurance for the boat? If a 40’ boat is your first boat, the underwriter may make you jump through some hoops in order to get coverage. Anyway, good luck and I hope it works out for you.

RonR · Sep 16, 2020

Ctangermann said:
Hi there! Excited to be here to learn and grow! We are looking to buy our very first boat which we will live a board full time. We have found a stunning 1982 kha shing 40 spindrift. The broker sent us a current survey (were were not there for it). I would like to share this survey with you and get your thoughts! We are super "green" to boating and would love some help! *I don't know how to share a file one here*

Is this an old survey that you did not pay for?
Or is this a current one that you had done?
If its the first one, please check with the Broker if its ok to share, as in my eyes you do not own that survey.

Swfla · Sep 16, 2020

Ctangermann said:
Hi there! Excited to be here to learn and grow! We are looking to buy our very first boat which we will live a board full time. We have found a stunning 1982 kha shing 40 spindrift. The broker sent us a current survey (were were not there for it). I would like to share this survey with you and get your thoughts! We are super "green" to boating and would love some help! *I don't know how to share a file one here*

Sounds like a possibility for a first boat. There are many boats of that age for sale. A current survey is helpful but depending on the date of the survey it has limited value. What's the definition of current? It can't be repeated enough, a broker makes money based on the selling price, he's got his own interest as well. If what he says can't be verified by written documentation, it can't be relied upon.

firehoser75 · Sep 16, 2020

Hi from across the Strait and welcome aboard the forum.
Because you say you are very green, I will give you some very basic advice. Before purchasing an older boat for liveaboard, first ensure you can obtain liveaboard moorage in the area you require it. Most marinas have very limited to no liveaboards, and even general moorage can be very hard to obtain, depending where you hope to live. As already stated, check into insurance. There are many companies that limit how old a boat they will insure, and being a first time owner, may place "training" requirements on you prior to you even being allowed to operate the boat. Check all of this out first!!! You don't want to own a "new to you" boat that you can't move by your self, has no insurance coverage, and nowhere to move it to.
Remember: horse - cart, not the other way around.
As far as the actual boat, the survey supplied by the broker is a good start, and should give you an idea about condition, but you should definitely not rely upon it. If you decide to offer, plan on your own surveyor(s) and a good sea trial.

GregBrannon · Sep 16, 2020

Welcome, and good luck with realizing your plans to live aboard. I recommend you poke around the site and find the MANY discussions, some recent, started by others with the same goals. We don't know how some of those stories ended, some didn't end well, some never got started, and others are still reporting. You might start looking in the 'Liveaboards' sub forum, but similar threads will be scattered in other places.

Don't be discouraged by the doom and gloom you're likely to get, and accept that advice is coming from those who do want to help and have been beyond where you are now. Everybody's journey is different, and the insights you get here might help you pick a path that works for you.

Greg.

firehoser75 · Sep 16, 2020

If this is the boat in Ladysmith, she looks like a beauty!
However, like all boats, there are things to "look out for" or be aware of and carefully check out. This is not meant to be the "discouragement" that Greg talks about, just some info for you to use as part of your consideration.
Screwed down teak decks. These can be very problematic requiring an expensive fix, or hundreds of hours of your time if you are capable of DYI. There are thousands of screws that can develop leaks over time and the seams require recaulking periodically as well. If leaks are not caught early, the deck coring (usually plywood) can rot requiring replacement of the interior (of the deck) wood core. Can be very expensive, so this needs to be checked out very carefully. All of the screws should be rebedded every few years (5-10 years) as routine maintenance.
The only other issue that came to mind at first look, is access to the outside of each engine for maintenance and repair. It looks very tight and could be a bit of problem, requiring "operating blind" or by feel, and may need some "special" tools to be able to access some parts??
The positive, that boat looks to have been loved (well maintained), at least by a quick photo visual, by the previous owner. If that is the case, it is a very good thing!
Do consider the potential issues I suggested you look into (in post #5) as part of your considerations, and good luck.

Peter B · Sep 16, 2020

Yes, welcome to TF.
Have you looked much at other boats..? Good to have more than one iron in the fire. You might want to take a look here eg, where that same model is for sale on TF here... https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/1988-kha-shing-40$70-k-53315.html#post923480
Cheers,

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

Comodave said:
Welcome aboard. Have you found insurance for the boat? If a 40’ boat is your first boat, the underwriter may make you jump through some hoops in order to get coverage. Anyway, good luck and I hope it works out for you.

Thank you! We are just starting to look into insurance.

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

RonR said:
Is this an old survey that you did not pay for?
Or is this a current one that you had done?
If its the first one, please check with the Broker if its ok to share, as in my eyes you do not own that survey.

Thanks! The broker just sent it over and didn't mention anything about sharing it? Not sure why it would be a problem if I seek advise based on the survey he gave me?

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

Swfla said:
Sounds like a possibility for a first boat. There are many boats of that age for sale. A current survey is helpful but depending on the date of the survey it has limited value. What's the definition of current? It can't be repeated enough, a broker makes money based on the selling price, he's got his own interest as well. If what he says can't be verified by written documentation, it can't be relied upon.

Great advise, thank you! The survey was just done on August 25th, 2020.

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

firehoser75 said:
Hi from across the Strait and welcome aboard the forum.
Because you say you are very green, I will give you some very basic advice. Before purchasing an older boat for liveaboard, first ensure you can obtain liveaboard moorage in the area you require it. Most marinas have very limited to no liveaboards, and even general moorage can be very hard to obtain, depending where you hope to live. As already stated, check into insurance. There are many companies that limit how old a boat they will insure, and being a first time owner, may place "training" requirements on you prior to you even being allowed to operate the boat. Check all of this out first!!! You don't want to own a "new to you" boat that you can't move by your self, has no insurance coverage, and nowhere to move it to.
Remember: horse - cart, not the other way around.
As far as the actual boat, the survey supplied by the broker is a good start, and should give you an idea about condition, but you should definitely not rely upon it. If you decide to offer, plan on your own surveyor(s) and a good sea trial.

Thank you for commenting! I have already found live aboard moorge (very rare, I know). Looking into insurance now too.

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

firehoser75 said:
If this is the boat in Ladysmith, she looks like a beauty!
However, like all boats, there are things to "look out for" or be aware of and carefully check out. This is not meant to be the "discouragement" that Greg talks about, just some info for you to use as part of your consideration.
Screwed down teak decks. These can be very problematic requiring an expensive fix, or hundreds of hours of your time if you are capable of DYI. There are thousands of screws that can develop leaks over time and the seams require recaulking periodically as well. If leaks are not caught early, the deck coring (usually plywood) can rot requiring replacement of the interior (of the deck) wood core. Can be very expensive, so this needs to be checked out very carefully. All of the screws should be rebedded every few years (5-10 years) as routine maintenance.
The only other issue that came to mind at first look, is access to the outside of each engine for maintenance and repair. It looks very tight and could be a bit of problem, requiring "operating blind" or by feel, and may need some "special" tools to be able to access some parts??
The positive, that boat looks to have been loved (well maintained), at least by a quick photo visual, by the previous owner. If that is the case, it is a very good thing!
Do consider the potential issues I suggested you look into (in post #5) as part of your considerations, and good luck.

Thank you! YES, that's her! The teek decks are defiantly on our radar! I am asking for a core sample. There are also dlisteron on the port side hull. I belive they are just in the bottom paint and not the fiberglass itself, but I am also confirming that a blister was scrapped/popped to be sure. If it wasn't checked, we will most defiantly be checking with another survey.

Ctangermann · Sep 17, 2020

Peter B said:
Yes, welcome to TF.
Have you looked much at other boats..? Good to have more than one iron in the fire. You might want to take a look here eg, where that same model is for sale on TF here... https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/1988-kha-shing-40$70-k-53315.html#post923480
Cheers,

Thyanks! We are looking at one other boat right now too. A 1986 CHB Trawler, but I keep coming back to this Kha Shing! The boat you linked sounds great! But it's in Florida. We are looking local here in B.C.

koliver · Sep 17, 2020

Ctangermann said:
Hi there! Excited to be here to learn and grow! We are looking to buy our very first boat which we will live a board full time. We have found a stunning 1982 kha shing 40 spindrift. The broker sent us a current survey (were were not there for it). I would like to share this survey with you and get your thoughts! We are super "green" to boating and would love some help! *I don't know how to share a file one here*

You may be captured by a restriction on adding files or pictures to a post, where you are new to the Forum. I don't know how many posts you need to have made first, but that restriction does go away after a few. When you do qualify, follow the instructions in the tab "manage attachments".

Xsbank · Sep 17, 2020

Taiwanese boats are gorgeous but full of problems that may or may not have been addressed. The problems are all possible to remediate but plan on spending double the asking if you cannot do the work yourself.

Rusting tanks, fuel and water. Some boats have more than 2
Deck leaks - poor substrate and serious deck rot
Sidewall/window leaks same as decks
Old plumbing and wiring
2 engines/gears to go over and check for up-to-date maintenance
Lots of exterior teak to care for

Get a really good surveyor who you can talk to. Try Tidemark, John is mainly a commercial surveyor, a Captain for 40 years but his personal boat is a Puget Trawler. PM me if you want his coordinates.

rgano · Sep 17, 2020

There are at least two types of surveys, one of which is an insurance survey. Every few years insurance companies require you to resurvey to keep the boat insured with them. These surveys are usually less detailed than one you as a prospective buyer would order. Hopefully, the survey they gave you is one ordered by another prospective buyer who then gave it to the owners. There is NO obligation for the buyer to share the survey with anybody. You can simply walk away if the survey you order reveals a lot of disqualifying issues or use it to pressure the seller for repairs or price reduction.

BandB · Sep 17, 2020

Ctangermann said:
Thanks! The broker just sent it over and didn't mention anything about sharing it? Not sure why it would be a problem if I seek advise based on the survey he gave me?

You need to know the provenance of that survey. When done, who paid for? Much of the time surveys sent that have previously been done are not worth very much but this could be the exception. Just ask questions rather than just receiving.

Comodave · Sep 17, 2020

Ctangermann said:
Thank you for commenting! I have already found live aboard moorge (very rare, I know). Looking into insurance now too.

If you are really serious about getting a boat to live on then I would book the slip now and find a boat that will fit the slip. How handy are you? Do you like to do DIY projects? If so then things like rotten deck cores can be done by you at your leisure, with adequate price reductions on the purchase price. If you are not handy and don’t like DIY then I would look for as new a boat as you can possibly afford. Rotten coring in decks isn’t rocket science but it is hard work to do. You can certainly learn how to do it if you are willing and save about 80% of the marina rates. Good luck and hope you find what you want.

garbler · Sep 17, 2020

rgano said:
There are at least two types of surveys, one of which is an insurance survey. Every few years insurance companies require you to resurvey to keep the boat insured with them. These surveys are usually less detailed than one you as a prospective buyer would order. Hopefully, the survey they gave you is one ordered by another prospective buyer who then gave it to the owners. There is NO obligation for the buyer to share the survey with anybody. You can simply walk away if the survey you order reveals a lot of disqualifying issues or use it to pressure the seller for repairs or price reduction.

Excellent points and advice. Couple things come to mind but chances are it’s a insurance ‘C&V’ an inspection and document that will be of no use to you and are readily made available by brokers. The real or relevant survey is a ‘ Pre-Purchase Survey’ and this is private property of the person(s) who paid for it. If it’s the later and fairly recent then you need to ask why didn’t the boat sell ? In other words somebody went to the trouble and expense for this inspection and you have to assume backed out of the deal. So why ?

Knot A Clue!! Need advise on a 1982 kha shing 40 Spindrift

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