Digital gauges

DD 8V71-TI's.....As much as I like the charm, real or perceived, of my classic gauges having more accurate information would be nice. They are old, and some have been replaced with non original. Some of them are giving pretty suspect readings.

So, I have two choices. Redo it all in analog gauges or going modern.

For the latter option, what have people successfully installed? I'm talking RPM, oil pressures, gear oil pressures, water temps, volt meters and I would like to add EGTs....

Probably want to maintain the original look of a bunch of round dials and not go to a screen....

Thanks.

My experience with going digital on an older analog system may give you pause. The boat was powered by a Cat D379 with a pair of gen sets powered by Isuzu 4BD1s. The Cat's gauges were as you described, unreliable and a mish mash of OEM and newer.

We worked with Hatton Marine in Seattle who had Murphy engineer a digital system to replace the analog. I won't give a number on the price because that was some time ago, 10 years ago, maybe more, and my employer paid the bill so any number I give will be a wild assed guess. I can tell you it was very expensive. Custom work engineering by Murphy. Hatton's engineer and Hatton's installer working for weeks to change out all the senders, pull the network wires, set up the network, trouble shoot and fine tune it. Plus the in house expenses to build a new dash for the digital display where a huge panel of gauges had once resided.

I think that simply replacing analog gauges with digital, they're out there, but keeping the analog senders and their wiring may give you a spiffy new look but might not solve the problems you are experiencing. It would be analogous to just putting a new analog gauge in.

Of course the expertise has grown and the available equipment has changed since I went trough the drill. It will be interesting to see what you learn as you explore the possibilities. Many of us are running older boats with less than reliable analog systems.

oscar said:

DD 8V71-TI's.....As much as I like the charm, real or perceived, of my classic gauges having more accurate information would be nice. They are old, and some have been replaced with non original. Some of them are giving pretty suspect readings.

So, I have two choices. Redo it all in analog gauges or going modern.

For the latter option, what have people successfully installed? I'm talking RPM, oil pressures, gear oil pressures, water temps, volt meters and I would like to add EGTs....

Probably want to maintain the original look of a bunch of round dials and not go to a screen....

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Personally, I hate digital gauges for most things, assuming you're talking digital numeric readouts. Analog is much more useful. For the most part, I don't care if oil pressure is 43 or 45, but being able to give a quick glance and go "yeah, that's normal" takes much less time and attention than having to think "it says 39, is that good or bad?"

I'd personally pick a set of quality gauges you like and install them with new senders. And check over the sender wiring carefully.

10 years is a very long time in the electronics business...... Just Googling around I sea an ocean of offerings at what appear to be reasonable prices. As far as time to install, pull wires and modify dash..... I'm freshly retired, have the tools and can do.

Looking for some recent experience in the matter so I can save myself some time weeding through it all.....

Here is a link to a thread I posted about replacing my analog gauges with digital. In the write up there are links to others posts that helped me put together my system. I'm very happy with the result, especially the ability to set warnings and alarms on the Maretron displays. It is not a simple plug and play project, but certainly doable if you're comfortable with electrical DIY.

I generally agree with rslifkin about digital readings, however, a recent experience showed me the value. I was having temperature issues on my port engine, which turned out to be the raw water impeller. After replacing the impeller and extracting the pieces from the heat exchanger, I was still not entirely certain everything was resolved. So I took the boat out and could watch the temp of each engine climb to normal level. Then I put the boat on plane, which is when the temp would rise. Both engines climbed a couple degrees, then settled back down to normal. By having numbers instead of a dial, I could clearly see what was happening.

The other nice feature with the Maretron displays is you can have both an analog style dial and a digital readout simultaneously. You can also color code the dial to show normal, warning and alarm levels. You can do some of this with an MFD chartplotter, but it is less flexible to configure.

The biggest decision is the selection of the analog to digital converter, with Actisense, Noland, and SeaGauge G2 some of the choices


https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/mainship-pilot-34-engine-gauges-nmea-2000-a-44474.html

Tonic1 said:

I generally agree with rslifkin about digital readings, however, a recent experience showed me the value. I was having temperature issues on my port engine, which turned out to be the raw water impeller. After replacing the impeller and extracting the pieces from the heat exchanger, I was still not entirely certain everything was resolved. So I took the boat out and could watch the temp of each engine climb to normal level. Then I put the boat on plane, which is when the temp would rise. Both engines climbed a couple degrees, then settled back down to normal. By having numbers instead of a dial, I could clearly see what was happening.

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That's a good point. However, a well-chosen analog gauge should provide enough information in that situation as well. You want one with enough resolution and well placed markings in and around the "normal" range. I'm particularly fussy about that with temperature gauges. On my boat, I want the straight up point to be 175 - 180*, as normal temperature up on plane is anywhere from 175 in cold water to just over 180 in very warm water. At low speeds they run in the 165 - 170 range, but things don't happen as fast at light load.

Not sure this will be allowed by mods but here is a very good and detailed thread on another forum from a guy who did exactly what you want to do and tried a lot of different equipment to get there. Long and short is you need and analog to NMEA2000 converter such as a Norland, Alba Combi, or Chetco that wires into your analog senders and converts the data to N2k where it can then be read and displayed by a variety of MFD's, Tablets, Etc. If you are installing new senders you can just start with N2k for things like EGT from companies like Maretron or Yacht Devices.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/881525-chetco-digital-sea-gauge-g2.html

https://www.panbo.com/noland-rs11-analog-to-nmea-2000-engine-monitoring/


And....


https://www.panbo.com/actisense-emu-1-analog-engine-gauges-to-nmea-2000-happiness/

rslifkin said:

Personally, I hate digital gauges ...but being able to give a quick glance and go "yeah, that's normal" takes much less time and attention than having to think "it says 39, is that good or bad?"
.

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I second this perspective. If you really want to optomize your indicators, rotate them so that you have the "normal" readings aligned rather than the zeroes as is the norm.


For example, my running oil pressures are about 70 lb and my temps at cruise 180 degrees. The needles all point to 2 o'clock. If one doesn't it grabs the attention much faster than a little red number.

I replaced the analog tachs on my boat with Aetna Engineering digital tachs as I run Predicted Log contests and engine RPMs are critical.

I've done this on a GB42 with some of the original senders but all new wiring. We retained one set of analog gauges and installed that in the engine room. We hooked up an Alba Combi Analog -> N2K adapter to each gauge and calibrated each of the digital conversions manually, not relying on what the old analog gauges read so we knew we had accurate numbers. The alba combi is a good DIY converter, but the documentation isn't great and the support is very slow (they do respond eventually). I would not want to attempt this type of conversion with old wiring, too many unknowns and potential for issues.

We had to replace the 'dual senders' with 'single senders' since we did not install dual analog gauge stations. We sourced the RPM values from the alternators, and also hooked up some non engine gauges to it, Waste tank level, fresh water tank level, etc...

This all is displayed on a Simrad MFD, but could easily be shown on individual Maretron displays like the DSM 410.

I disagree with analog displays being more readable, digital displays can easily monitor and alert you when things are out of range, the same reasons that modern aircraft have gone all digital with alerts for things that are out of bounds. The challenge is to get the alerts to be intelligent enough that they don't alert in benign conditions and train you to ignore them, if an alert is shown, it should mean business, not be something you've learned to automatically dismiss with tons of false alarms.

I like the analog gauges. I can put a piece of red tape at normal. I can tell at a glance if all is well.
If you use analog gauges remember, normal is at the center 2/3rds of the gauge.
Same way for a car....
Take a look at the face of your gauges, it should indicate the manufacture of the gauges. If not, VDO used to make pretty good/reliable analog gauges.

Back to the original post, I strongly recommend two things to start:

1) Join the Hatteras Owner's Forum. There are many threads in the archives about this, and many knowledgeable members with your boat and/or your engines. Plus the sponsor, Sam's marine, is an invaluable resource.

2) Give Lauderdale Speedometer a call and discuss your objectives. They know these engines, and know everything there is to know about gauges.

https://www.lspeedo.com/

That will probably satisfy your quest, but if not, then you can start delving into the various more exotic solutions from folks like Chetco. But get a primer first from the above sources.

OldDan1943 said:

I like the analog gauges. I can put a piece of red tape at normal. I can tell at a glance if all is well.
If you use analog gauges remember, normal is at the center 2/3rds of the gauge.
Same way for a car....
Take a look at the face of your gauges, it should indicate the manufacture of the gauges. If not, VDO used to make pretty good/reliable analog gauges.

Click to expand...

Best thing I did was to add white tell tale gauge pointer marks. I used 3m white tape. Really helpful when guest are given the wheel on friends/family cruises.

I stood many a shutdown watch on nuc subs. We had analog gauges...... 8 pages of reading taken every hour in 3 compartments. (back in the 60s and very early 70s)

I have no idea what they use now.

The only place I like a digital gauge is the tachometer. For temperatures and pressures it is easier to glance and see if the needle is pointed in the right direction. I don't need to know the exact number, just is it 'normal' and has it moved.

For the tachometer I like the digital to help synchronize the engines. I don't care if they're running 1625 or 1650, only how far apart they are. They're pretty easy to bring into sync with the help of the digital readout.

HiDHo said:

Best thing I did was to add white tell tale gauge pointer marks. I used 3m white tape. Really helpful when guest are given the wheel on friends/family cruises.

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Thanks. I will do something similar. Maybe an aircraft style arc versus the single pointer.

caltexflanc said:

B1) Join the Hatteras Owner's Forum. There are many threads in the archives about this, and many knowledgeable members with your boat and/or your engines. Plus the sponsor, Sam's marine, is an invaluable resource.

Click to expand...

Thanks, been on it for 5 years.

Digital is great if you need or want to know if a temp/pressure or whatever is going up or down and how fast. Rpm, coolant temp and oil pressure can be read just knowing “about” how much pressure (like 47psi or 49psi) but rpm needs a bit more accuracy especially if you keep track of past experience. As in why am I down 75rpm?

But I really doubt if the accuracy of digital will do you any real good.
My reco would be to make repairs on your existing analog instruments or maybe get new analog instruments. Or do one or two in digital and run-em.

I made the change from analog to digital last year- been very happy with the Chetco unit, the support, and the results. Here is my writeup:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/project-engine-gauges-analog-nmea-2000-a-43803.html

I have configured, tested and installed the Actisense, NoLand and Alfa Combi units. Actisense and NoLand are my favorites but for different reasons and on different boats. I run both an Actisense and a NoLand on my boat, and use Furuno FI-70 displays at each driving location to show a compact gauge of everything for 2x engines. The data also shows up on chart plotters and other things, but I use those primarily for charting.

I wrote about the Actisense here https://seabits.com/monitor-your-engine-with-the-actisense-emu-1/ and while I like it, the NoLand has better alerting and alarms, and is easier to calibrate, when you can calibrate it. I've found that the NoLand units are very sensitive to stray voltages, bad grounds, and in particular, challenging with tachometers on various types of engines. They sell various bits to overcome some of this, but it does add some complexity.

I have a full set of analog gauges at both driving stations, but later this year those will all disappear behind the panel and will be replaced by glass monitors. I've run the units on this boat for almost 2 years without any issues.

For anyone thinking of going digital, Steve’s SeaBits article is an excellent resource. I’m planning to go with the EMU-1 for my mid ‘80s Lehmans. The install looks a lot less difficult than I’d imagined. I plan to keep all the analogue gauges at both helms and tap into the existing gauge wiring for engine temps, oil pressure and maybe transmission oil pressure.

The only part I’m not clear on is how to take the tacho readings off a Glendinning synchronizer. Anyone done this?

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’m going to add one good reason for digital.

That is when you want to know if something is increasing, increasing fast or stable.
While flying ultralight aircraft early on I got my engine too hot (well over 400 degrees f) and it quit very abruptly .. like stuck .. piston to bore.

I got advice from another flyer to buy a little digital meter that was accurate to one degree. It had a sensor that fit under the spark plug base taking the place of the spark plug gasket.
It worked very well. I could see at a glance what the cylinder head temp was and observing how fast or slow the numbers were moving up or down .. or stable. Then if the number was under my redline I could keep right on climbing at full rpm.

But an analog meter would usually get too hot before I could tell if the temp was climbing.

But w any analog meter one needs to engage the brain and compute the situation. The digital is more of a go-no-go .. at a glance.

But most all instruments found on a rec. trawler the analog meter should be fine IMO even if it’s not extremely accurate. A skipper only needs to know if the needles are about in the right position as determined from experience w his individual boat. So no digital needed.

Ian, there are spare ports on both ends of the synchronizer box. Plug your signal generators in there.

angus99 said:

For anyone thinking of going digital, Steve’s SeaBits article is an excellent resource. I’m planning to go with the EMU-1 for my mid ‘80s Lehmans. The install looks a lot less difficult than I’d imagined. I plan to keep all the analogue gauges at both helms and tap into the existing gauge wiring for engine temps, oil pressure and maybe transmission oil pressure.

The only part I’m not clear on is how to take the tacho readings off a Glendinning synchronizer. Anyone done this?

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catalinajack said:

Ian, there are spare ports on both ends of the synchronizer box. Plug your signal generators in there.

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Thanks, John. After posting, I found a Glendinning manual that shows the ports. I guess Glendinning or Actisense can tell me which senders I’ll need. The synchro unit itself is in a great location—starboard ER ceiling—that offers an easy cable run to the lower helm. It’s nice when a project starts coming together.

oscar said:

DD 8V71-TI's.....As much as I like the charm, real or perceived, of my classic gauges having more accurate information would be nice. They are old, and some have been replaced with non original. Some of them are giving pretty suspect readings.

So, I have two choices. Redo it all in analog gauges or going modern.

For the latter option, what have people successfully installed? I'm talking RPM, oil pressures, gear oil pressures, water temps, volt meters and I would like to add EGTs....

Probably want to maintain the original look of a bunch of round dials and not go to a screen....

Click to expand...

I went with Aetna digital tachs, and CruzPro digital temp, oil pressure, fuel level, and voltmeter gauges. CruzPro makes a digital tach, too, but the units I chose all fit the original dashboard holes.

Our 8.3CTAs didn't already have EGT senders, and the ZF gears didn't come with oil pressure senders, so I didn't try to add those. May have been possible, but I didn't investigate.

-Chris