The "Trawler" part of "Swift Trawler?"

Good morning,

Please forgive me if this in an ignorant question but I'm unable to find the answer anywhere. Since the ST is a planing hull, capable of 20+ knots, what is is the "Trawler" part of the ST? Is it just marketing and design - created for those of us who like the more traditional look and feel of a trawler vs modern cruisers? Or is there something unique about the hull?

I grew up boating on a large 38 foot Carver Aft Cabin Motor Yacht style boat so I am very familiar with these big planing boats, cruising at 21+ knots, and the subsequent fuel drain.

My wife and I now have a little C-Dory 22 Cruiser. Awesome little boat. Although this boat easily cruises in the 20's, we found we really enjoy 8-12 knots. This has convinced me that once we're ready to step up to our retirement boat, we should focus on trawlers. But I'd love the capability to cruise faster than 7 knots. Even 10 or 11 would be great.

Which brings me to the ST. Would be great to cruise along at economic trawler speeds but have the capability to step it up if needed. But how are the ST's any different from any other planing hulls? Do they somehow perform better at displacement speeds? Are the engines tuned to work better at these lower RPMs?

I don't foresee us ever going faster than 17 knots unless running from weather. My pocket book simply can't afford that fuel draw. So I imagine 7-10 knots would be perfect.

What is the difference, other than look/feel, of a ST compared to Carvers and all the other modern planing powerboats?

Thanks

Too bad you never experienced going slower on that Carver. If you had you would have noticed the same lower fuel use as any "trawler" going 8 Kts.
IMO the ST just looks more sailboaty that an aft cabin boat and sacrifices interior space for looks.
If the boat is a similar size and weight at 17 Kts the fuel will be similar to the carver.

Thanks Bayview. I guess that's really my question. Is the ST really no different than any other similarly sized power boat like the Carver? Does this also apply to the various "Tugs" that have planing hulls? I know they are all very different in styling, use of space, quality, etc, but I'm asking specifically about the ability to cruise at displacement speeds, up through 10-14 knots.

If I remember correctly, our Carver didn't seem to handle well at slower speeds, and probably couldn't cruise in the medium speeds (maybe 10-18?) without falling off of plane.

Is is ok to run the motors on these boats, (not the ST), at slow speeds for a majority of the time or do they prefer to be running at 3000+ rpms?

How well a planing boat does at lower speeds depends a lot on the boat. Generally express cruiser types and faster planing hulls will have smaller rudders and such and will handle worse at low speeds, while some of the slower planing hulls have better control with bigger rudders and often a bit of keel. Lower deadrise keeps the fuel burn down and lowers minimum planing speed at the expense of a worse ride in a head sea on plane (and more need to slow down in head seas).

My boat, for example, cruises around 17 kts when on plane, but it handles just fine at 6 - 7 kts when going slow. Faster than 7 kts on my boat and it's plowing a good bit of water, so just not a great speed to run. There are some sea conditions when being up on plane is just more comfortable, however. As far as slowing down a bit, my boat will stay on plane down to somewhere around 14 - 15 kts, but fuel burn per mile doesn't really improve compared to running 17 - 18 kts. So the only reason to run at that speed is if it's more comfortable.

As far as engines, some are fine with running lightly loaded most of the time, especially if you run them up for 20 minutes here and there to get things good and hot and give them some exercise. Others aren't well suited to light load operation, so how well a fast boat can go slow really varies from boat to boat.

Check out American Tugs..... 34/36 and I think 41/43.
They might check all your blocks.
The hull will never plane but can make 15-17knts. If you do manage to get an AT to plane, you are on the front side of a huge wave. Better close the doors and windows. LOL

IMO 10 -12 knots is pushing water for no gain on most boats below 60'

I had a Carver 440 with 'small" rudders it cruised well at 9 kts or less and above 16-17.

A bit of an unusual hull wit a V shape except for a flat section about 1' from either chine. I think it that shape gave lower wetted surface at speed and better roll resistance at slow.

I always want bow flare to knock down waves so that keeps me away from GB and tugs. But narrow interiors do as well. The Carver was 15' beam but designed so that the interior furniture fit under the side decks and while it had a big interior it also had wide side decks. Not a common feature on "trawlers"

No problem steering at slow speeds and it maneuvered like a dancer at marina speeds.

The ST's hull shape is no different from a Mainship, Grand Banks, Defever..... With enough hp all of those can hit 20 mph. The engines are big in order to make that much power, but there is nothing special about how they are tuned.

It just fits our image of what a trawler should look like.

David

Our Mainship 34HT has basically 2 cruising speeds ( or better stated that how we run it).
Slow cruise is 8 to 9 MPH at about 1700-1800 RPM
Fast cruise is 12 to 14 MPH at about 2600-2800 RPM

Not much point in between as it's too much fuel for the gain in speed.
When I run at slow cruise for a few hours I try to bump it up to fast cruise for around 20- 30 min. Sometimes its once / short day near the end of a run.

rslifkin said:

Lower deadrise keeps the fuel burn down and lowers minimum planing speed at the expense of a worse ride in a head sea on plane (and more need to slow down in head seas).

Click to expand...

Chris Craft 381's were one of my favorite boats as a kid before we bought the Carver. Great boat.

The way you describe the hull sounds a bit like my C-Dory. She has a V in the front but the aft 2/3rds are rather flat. Makes her efficient and she planes at low speeds, but definitely bangs in any head seas.

Does the ST have the bigger rudders and a keel that would make it perform better at low speeds? I'm amazed their website doesn't go into these details.

OldDan and Bacchus, American Tugs and Mainships are definitely on my dream sheet as well. Along with Nordics Tugs, Rangers, Cutwaters.

TheDory said:

Good morning,

Please forgive me if this in an ignorant question but I'm unable to find the answer anywhere. Since the ST is a planing hull, capable of 20+ knots, what is is the "Trawler" part of the ST? Is it just marketing and design - created for those of us who like the more traditional look and feel of a trawler vs modern cruisers? Or is there something unique about the hull?

Click to expand...

Just marketing.

My tender is a space shuttle.

Most anything capable of exceeding eight knots, is not a recreational trawler. Faster boats are something else. ... Fast trawler? what a joke. What gathers us? Motorboats with overnight accommodations

A guy has a 50 feet ST up here nearby and I must say it is an awesome looking boat ( well for my eyes, beauty is in the eye of the one looking so...). Interior design you may like it or not, question of taste. Quite modern and for me a bit too much on the "Ikea" look and feel and not what I like.
I guess the Swift Trawler name is more about how the boat looks externally but for sure nothing particular or special like for most of boats. Anyway you may search on that forum about the definition of a trawler and you will make your own opinion.

L

TheDory said:

Chris Craft 381's were one of my favorite boats as a kid before we bought the Carver. Great boat.

The way you describe the hull sounds a bit like my C-Dory. She has a V in the front but the aft 2/3rds are rather flat. Makes her efficient and she planes at low speeds, but definitely bangs in any head seas.

Does the ST have the bigger rudders and a keel that would make it perform better at low speeds? I'm amazed their website doesn't go into these details.

Click to expand...

The 381 is definitely a great boat, but 99% of them being gas powered definitely hurts their ability to make a good trawler. Even at low speed, the efficiency with gassers is just bad.

The C-Dory looks a bit flatter than most of the shallow deadrise modified V hulls I've seen on larger boats, so most will probably ride better than the C-Dory. Generally, it's just a matter of keep the bow trimmed down a bit lower than normal on plane in a head sea and slow down a bit if needed to avoid pounding. The ride isn't bad, they just won't blast through steep chop at high speed with a comfy ride like a deep V sport fish.

The ST appears in various pictures I can find to be a somewhat more developed form of that basic modified V hull. From what I can find, deadrise on the 42 is 12* at the transom. I haven't found a spec for other models. My boat is 10* for comparison. Compared to more basic modified V hulls, the ST looks a bit more pointy up forward, which probably helps the ride in a head sea, but might make it more important to keep the bow up in a following sea. Forefoot depth is moderate, so not as deep as a Grand Banks or similar, but not cut away like most express cruisers.

Continuing from above, the ST has a keel, but not a super deep one and it's cut away aft like most planing hulls with a keel. I'm not sure what impact on ride quality or handling it has from the prop pockets on the twin engine non-pod ones. From what I can tell in the few pictures of various size STs that show them, the rudders are reasonably sized, not express cruiser postage stamps. They're definitely not large, but probably large enough.

I sailed planing boats before (and sailing boats too).

The behaviour of my ST44 when cruising at 7/9 knots is completely different!

She sails damn well, even in rough seas: a thing impossible to do with a "normal" planing hull.

Usually I cruise at 7 to 9 knots, going up do 16-20 only in long legs or if I have to shelter from bad weather.

Go with ST range and you will not regret this. Oldest ST are trawlers-looking, and newer are more modern-looking. But the hull concept remains the same

TheDory said:

Good morning,

Please forgive me if this in an ignorant question but I'm unable to find the answer anywhere. Since the ST is a planing hull, capable of 20+ knots, what is is the "Trawler" part of the ST? Is it just marketing and design - created for those of us who like the more traditional look and feel of a trawler vs modern cruisers? Or is there something unique about the hull?

I grew up boating on a large 38 foot Carver Aft Cabin Motor Yacht style boat so I am very familiar with these big planing boats, cruising at 21+ knots, and the subsequent fuel drain.

My wife and I now have a little C-Dory 22 Cruiser. Awesome little boat. Although this boat easily cruises in the 20's, we found we really enjoy 8-12 knots. This has convinced me that once we're ready to step up to our retirement boat, we should focus on trawlers. But I'd love the capability to cruise faster than 7 knots. Even 10 or 11 would be great.

Which brings me to the ST. Would be great to cruise along at economic trawler speeds but have the capability to step it up if needed. But how are the ST's any different from any other planing hulls? Do they somehow perform better at displacement speeds? Are the engines tuned to work better at these lower RPMs?

I don't foresee us ever going faster than 17 knots unless running from weather. My pocket book simply can't afford that fuel draw. So I imagine 7-10 knots would be perfect.

What is the difference, other than look/feel, of a ST compared to Carvers and all the other modern planing powerboats?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I dont see much of a difference in the hull design to make the boat handle or ride differently than many express cruisers I have run/worked on.

From a few pictures showing the shallow tunnels, small keel and running strakes (all faily common) dont really signal any huge design departure from other vessels.

I am curious why the boat would handle differently.....

What also is curious, is the boats weight....if I read correctly...its up around 23,000 pounds. The older express cruisers I ran for a dealership, a lot of them were up around 22,000 pounds. Wonder where the weight savings was done for that weight in a salon cabin boat?

We had a Beneteau and have owned express cruisers prior to that. They are lighter boats for their size and run no differently in seas than other express cruisers.

psneeld said:

What also is curious, is the boats weight....if I read correctly...its up around 23,000 pounds. The older express cruisers I ran for a dealership, a lot of them were up around 22,000 pounds. Wonder where the weight savings was done for that weight in a salon cabin boat?

Click to expand...

Our neighbors ST34 is on the next T-dock down from us. A couple of weeks ago we had very high winds and 3 footers were rolling into the marina directly on the beam. He said his hull sides were "oil-canning".

What size ST is that 23k lbs figure for? And is that weight dry or loaded?

My 38 foot (hull length) planing hull is spec-ed at 21,600 dry with gas engines. I figure 26k lbs as a realistic loaded weight with full tanks and normal gear. I've got at least as much superstructure and freeboard as the older ST 42, so far from an express cruiser. And my boat isn't exactly built lightly unless you're comparing to an old Hatteras or something slow and trawler-y that's heavy just for the sake of being heavy.

As a comparison, my dock neighbor's 39 foot Sea Ray (same vintage as mine, and length and beam are within a couple inches and it has the same engines / transmissions) is 5200 lbs lighter in dry weight (difference is even bigger loaded, as my fuel tanks are bigger).

rslifkin said:

What size ST is that 23k lbs figure for? And is that weight dry or loaded?

My 38 foot (hull length) planing hull is spec-ed at 21,600 dry with gas engines. I figure 26k lbs as a realistic loaded weight with full tanks and normal gear. I've got at least as much superstructure and freeboard as the older ST 42, so far from an express cruiser. And my boat isn't exactly built lightly unless you're comparing to an old Hatteras or something slow and trawler-y that's heavy just for the sake of being heavy.

As a comparison, my dock neighbor's 39 foot Sea Ray (same vintage as mine, and length and beam are within a couple inches and it has the same engines / transmissions) is 5200 lbs lighter in dry weight (difference is even bigger loaded, as my fuel tanks are bigger).

Click to expand...

I looked up the specs on a ST44...right around 23,000 dry.



I saw specs on a Sea Ray 44 express cruiser (Sundancer) ..... 22,500 dry.

rslifkin said:

What size ST is that 23k lbs figure for? And is that weight dry or loaded?

My 38 foot (hull length) planing hull is spec-ed at 21,600 dry with gas engines. I figure 26k lbs as a realistic loaded weight with full tanks and normal gear. I've got at least as much superstructure and freeboard as the older ST 42, so far from an express cruiser. And my boat isn't exactly built lightly unless you're comparing to an old Hatteras or something slow and trawler-y that's heavy just for the sake of being heavy.

As a comparison, my dock neighbor's 39 foot Sea Ray (same vintage as mine, and length and beam are within a couple inches and it has the same engines / transmissions) is 5200 lbs lighter in dry weight (difference is even bigger loaded, as my fuel tanks are bigger).

Click to expand...

I looked up the specs on a ST44...right around 23,900 dry.



I saw specs on a Sea Ray 44 express cruiser (Sundancer) ..... 22,500 dry.

Based on those numbers, I'd say the ST is definitely on the lighter side. Sea Rays also seem to have gained weight over time, but being a faster boat, the Sea Ray has bigger, heavier engines in that comparison (which brings the total weights closer).

Fast trawlers

I had a 34 Mainship Pilot with twin Yanmars. What I thought of as a poor man's Hinckley, Beneteau ST, etc.


What I loved about that boat was, although I could go 20 kts., it was also VERY comfortable at 6 or 8kts. The slower speed was my preference. However, when the ADMIRAL was aboard, we had to go fast! She wanted to GET THERE!

ljk said:

I had a 34 Mainship Pilot with twin Yanmars. What I thought of as a poor man's Hinckley, Beneteau ST, etc.


What I loved about that boat was, although I could go 20 kts., it was also VERY comfortable at 6 or 8kts. The slower speed was my preference. However, when the ADMIRAL was aboard, we had to go fast! She wanted to GET THERE!

Click to expand...

do your engines have turbos?

unfortunately some engines with turbos dont do well being run at those low speeds

I have an ST 34. It handles very well at low speeds. The rudder is big enough to make a very tight turning radius.

Sometimes I will cruise for hours at 8 knots, sometimes I get up on it. Handles well at all speeds.

Since there is no true definition of trawler. Does it matter what it is called as long as you like the look.

4Fun, agree, there are advantages to every type of boat and how we use them.

4fun1 said:

Since there is no true definition of trawler.

Click to expand...

Sure there is
Its all about the hull form

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...ymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

The very first link goes in depth as to what one is.

https://www.soundingsonline.com/news/what-makes-a-trawler-a-trawler

4fun1 said:

Since there is no true definition of trawler. Does it matter what it is called as long as you like the look.

Click to expand...

There used to be a firm definition for a trawler. It had to do with, full displacement hull form, able to carry heavy load, great distances at a low fuel burn rate.
I am not saying this was an all encompassing definition but, it did hit the high spots. (I guess we could continue or restart the debate concerning the definition of a trawler but, I dont want to beat that poor 'dead horse'.

Now add in the marketing departments of various boat manufacturers and things get confusing and questionable.
Even an ocean liner has a much lower burn rate at low speeds than at its maximum speed.

Trawler, fast trawler, deep v-trawler. semi-planing trawler, planing trawler, Tug, fast Tug, floating bus .....

Any boat is a trawler if the marketing department says so.

What’s a trawler?

boatpoker said:

Trawler, fast trawler, deep v-trawler. semi-planing trawler, planing trawler, Tug, fast Tug, floating bus .....

Any boat is a trawler if the marketing department says so.

Click to expand...

I think it’s a state of mind! Trawler is for people who like lots of space, lower speed, long range, not all that expensive for what you get.