Will trawlers disappear?

Trend in transportation is away from petrol and diesel. Marine technology is mainly derivative from transportation. Oil and gas are going to be all time lows as this trend continues. More dramatic recently due to covid but the trend predates covid and will continue after it passes. Other than petrochemicals and plastics consumption is down. This is necessary to combat climate change but also is inevitable as alternative energy technologies improve to the point that even with improvements in internal combustion engines they are cost competitive and non polluting.
For trawlers the goal is range for the full displacement vessels and is energy intensive for faster vessels. Hybrid boats such as green line and Arksen fill the void to some extent but for those without deep pockets diesel remains the way to carry the most BTUs in the smallest package at the least cost.
We run on ancient dead plankton from the age of dinosaurs and before. Are our vessels the dinosaurs? Is there a future for trawler Yachts for non 1%ers?

Except for possible political interference, this is not a matter of concern in our lifetimes.

What does it matter?
If you're buying a boat for what you will sell it for down the road, you've already lost. A trawler is an expensive deprecating asset with an extremely high annual carrying cost. For most of us, diesel fuel will be around after we're not. So buy your boat and enjoy the toy.

If you're wondering if there will be a market for your boat when you're ready to get rid of it, one only has to look at all the classics out there. A boat in good shape will almost always be bought. In the USA, there's almost always a market for the old, antique, and odd items, whether they work or not.

There may come a point that a new trawler won't sell for what it costs to build, but most 30+ year old trawlers in good shape, probably sell for more than the original purchase price. So clearly there's a market for the old and outdated....in good shape.

Ted

markpierce said:

Except for possible political interference, this is not a matter of concern in our lifetimes.

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True, since politics follow money there is not much motive to reduce diesel use for us.

Local politics does come in to play as far as where we can anchor/moor and for how long.

Rudolph Diesel’s invention is basically unchanged for 130 years. The piston still goes up and down. Hard to believe he got it right on the first try. Maybe some things just never change.

Arc said:

Rudolph Diesel’s invention is basically unchanged for 130 years. The piston still goes up and down. Hard to believe he got it right on the first try. Maybe some things just never change.

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We may switch back to Rudolf's original fuel source, though.

Peanut oil.

JK

Wait, What?

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

Wait, What?

pete

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Not kidding about the peanut oil. Think about it.
There was not yet any market for diesel oil from petroleum in the 1890's.
Rudolf Diesel also tried to run his engines on coal dust. We should be glad that fizzled.

The JK was about switching back to peanut oil.

As long as there’s plenty left to eat.
I love eating peanuts w ginger pieces/chunks.

Gettin' deep in here now!! Get those Rolex's up!


Pass the peanuts ... ALICE, get me another brew, did KC win?

We are going to need renewable liquid fuels for air and maritime use, and possibly long haul trucking as well. Lots of stuff runs well in Diesel engines, particularly old ones. You just can’t buy it easily. Eventually you’ll probably be able to.

Save your cooking oil?

The majors in oil & gas are indeed shifting their focus away from fossil fuels and derivatives. BP for example has laid out a plan to be Net Zero by 2050. It's hard to imagine replacing the power density of fossil fuels, especially for long range transportation such as air, train, and ship. But who knows. 15 years ago I could not have imagined writing this on my phone. We Willard owners have what must be the very first trawler forum users group: mimeograph scans of newsletters between many owners in the 1960s that told of distant travel as far as the galopagos Islands. Imagine what it must have been like to head south back then in a single diesel trawler - no VHF to speak of (certainly few others with one). Radar would be out of reach. I doubt even RDF was viable.

But back to diesel. It will be displaced or become unaffordable or difficult to source. Question is when, not if. Doubtful my generation will be affected. Likely the next will.

Peter.

A few years ago when the price of Diesel fuel and gasoline got out of reason I started playing with burning other fuels. I started with an '86 Ford F250 Diesel and would pour in anything with BTU value that would dissolve into used motor oil. Basically I started with 85% used oil and 15% gas then added/substituted whatever to keep the viscosity reasonable then filtered to .5 micron. The list included vegetable oils (least desirable), discarded aviation fuel samples (best results), discarded industrial liquids like alcohols and turpentine. Even found some MEK and acetone that would burn. If it said "Flamable" on the container, I'd try it. Averaged $0.15/gallon for several years.

What ever happened to biodiesel from algae? Just clean the hull, put it in a digester and make your own!

Here in the south, we have "Kudzu" - a plant that grows so fast you can see it moving! Convert that to biodiesel - set for life!

Boat propulsion is very inefficient form of transportation so IMO it will be a long time before dino goes away because of diesel's high energy density.

Olebird said:

What ever happened to biodiesel from algae? Just clean the hull, put it in a digester and make your own!

Here in the south, we have "Kudzu" - a plant that grows so fast you can see it moving! Convert that to biodiesel - set for life!

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Biodiesel from algae was a hot start-up company trend about 5-10 years ago. The problem was, and is, what it always is: money. It hasn't been possible to make it at a price that is anywhere near competitive with what conventional diesel sells for.

bayview said:

Boat propulsion is very inefficient form of transportation so IMO it will be a long time before dino goes away because of diesel's high energy density.

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I thought the only form of goods transportation close to the efficiency of water was by rail? What other way of moving people and goods over this planet is more efficient, other than walking?

Nick14 said:

Biodiesel from algae was a hot start-up company trend about 5-10 years ago. The problem was, and is, what it always is: money. It hasn't been possible to make it at a price that is anywhere near competitive with what conventional diesel sells for.

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If we added in the costs to mitigate greenhouse gas caused climate change and pollution the actual societal cost of fossil fuels would rise and alternatives would be competitive. It would be the same as if we added into the cost of a pack of cigarettes the costs of treating the cancers and heart disease they cause. I assume this is one reason why tobacco products cost so much in Europe: the taxpayers through their government pay for the harmful effects of tobacco through their universal healthcare plans. Thus there is a clear reason to price tobacco accordingly.

Answer to OP.... No, they are not going away anytime soon. Of course I only know as much as anyone else.

Hippocampus said:

Save your cooking oil?

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Indeed, we still have a VW TDI that was modified to burn vegetable oil.
I was able to procure the once-used cooking from the caterer at work for years!

Woodland Hills said:

If we added in the costs to mitigate greenhouse gas caused climate change and pollution the actual societal cost of fossil fuels would rise and alternatives would be competitive. It would be the same as if we added into the cost of a pack of cigarettes the costs of treating the cancers and heart disease they cause. I assume this is one reason why tobacco products cost so much in Europe: the taxpayers through their government pay for the harmful effects of tobacco through their universal healthcare plans. Thus there is a clear reason to price tobacco accordingly.

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I agree, but the issue with algal fuels was also getting the right species to grow. Basically a few companies had great success at the beaker stage, but when you move to open ponds other species take over the pond and you get very little product. A few companies have used this tech to create cyanobacteria that produce more valuable compounds, like medicine or oddly enough organic blue dye is worth $$

Woodland Hills said:

If we added in the costs to mitigate greenhouse gas caused climate change and pollution the actual societal cost of fossil fuels would rise and alternatives would be competitive. It would be the same as if we added into the cost of a pack of cigarettes the costs of treating the cancers and heart disease they cause. I assume this is one reason why tobacco products cost so much in Europe: the taxpayers through their government pay for the harmful effects of tobacco through their universal healthcare plans. Thus there is a clear reason to price tobacco accordingly.

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While I like Green energy, if you want to be fair in making a comparison relative to greenhouse gas costs, then you need to also factor in tax subsidies, investment incentives, and tax credits for the green energy programs.

I very much like my geothermal heating and air conditioning system over the old propane furnace and air conditioner with an air cooled condenser. It's certainly much better for the environment in several ways. The Federal government, State government and the power company covered about half the cost of the entire conversion project, making it about the same cost as a high efficiency heat pump. Hard to imagine them selling 30% of the units without all the offset money.

Ted

I can see trawler diesels, both drive engines and generators converted to natural gas. The power will be less from CNG, but oil changes and life of the engines extended because of the cleaner burns would be a plus. Boater leery of propane cooking might not like it.
Commercial shipping already using CNG turbine drive applications. I would think the military might be thinking of converting there turbine drives to CNG IF the power and fuel range is adequate.
In any case not in my life time unless...............

A Trawler is not by definition diesel or gasoline powered, so a Trawler powered by electric motors or hybrid is STILL a Trawler. So, Trawlers will not disappear regardless of what power plant is used.

I hope to replace my diesels with electrics in about 3 years, now my estimate may be off by 2 years but I believe within 3 to 5 years hybrid or even electric conversions will be "MORE" market-ready (than they are now). When I do yank my diesels and install electrics it will still be a Trawler.

Trawlers may make a comeback vs large motor yachts that burn through hundreds of gallons on a weekend outing.

I've been driving hybrid and electric cars for the last ten years, and am generally interested in using less fossil fuels. But it's hard to beat the stored energy in diesel. I don't think I've ever consumed more than 200 gallons/month in full time travel/liveaboard use. That seems sustainable in the short/medium term, and I don't foresee any shortages of fuel. Prices could (should?) increase under a carbon tax scheme and I'd be happy to pay my cost of polluting.

Woodland Hills said:

I thought the only form of goods transportation close to the efficiency of water was by rail? What other way of moving people and goods over this planet is more efficient, other than walking?

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You ae talking bulk shipment not personal transport.

Rowing is good and sail better but that is not what people want.

bayview said:

You ae talking bulk shipment not personal transport.

Rowing is good and sail better but that is not what people want.

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I can see myself rowing my Trawler. Awfully cumbersome oars though. I wish I could outfit it easily with sail. That would be pragmatic.

bayview said:

You ae talking bulk shipment not personal transport.

Rowing is good and sail better but that is not what people want.

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So what is more efficient moving a family of four and their stuff 500 miles than by water?

Woodland Hills said:

So what is more efficient moving a family of four and their stuff 500 miles than by water?

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A car, most likely. Some transportation methods like boats just don't scale down well. The stuff moved vs fuel consumed relationship gets worse as you try to move smaller amounts of stuff.