Smoke/CO detector madness

Hi All,

We were two nights into our 10 night cruise in the San Juans when we were awakened to the screaming of our smoke/CO alarm in the aft cabin (where we were). Of course there is no silencing of the beast as it was one of those no replaceable battery types. So I had to break off the tab and switch it off, now rendering it inoperative. No smoke to be found, nothing running, (kind of hard to have a CO event). This is the 3rd time this has happened on our boat. It's driving me crazy. I looked on line and it appears the marine industry CO detectors are quite expensive on their own. The smoke detectors are relatively inexpensive. I had purchased a combo smoke/CO detector from Lowes, i.e. home builder grade. Is there something I'm missing?

Dave

Were you plugged into shore power with a battery charger on? The off gassing of a battery in trouble will set off CO detectors.

I have used big box store ones on 2 boats spanning 11 years of live aboard and they are fine, yet will trigger on battery issues and every once and awhile cold/ damp conditions.

I have been using the home ones for twenty years with no issues. You would think that something designed to work on the 14 foot ceiling of an open plan house would be fine in the close quarters of a boat.

One thing though. When I bought the CO detector for my gas Silverton it was AC and had memory. AC since it was needed when the Genny was running at night when I had the AC. With memory as it memorized with DC back up any level of CO.

There are unfortunately lots of things that trigger the CO detectors. I finally had enough, and now only have smoke detectors.

Ted

Is it possible that the detector was over five years old?

If you had one of the CO sensors with the replaceable gel sensor, those are easily false alarmed by a nearby used diaper... If you've changed a baby diaper, there are some wicked chemical combinations in there. I found that out after it false alarmed in the middle of the night, two nights running.

stubones99 said:

If you had one of the CO sensors with the replaceable gel sensor, those are easily false alarmed by a nearby used diaper... If you've changed a baby diaper, there are some wicked chemical combinations in there. I found that out after it false alarmed in the middle of the night, two nights running.

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I would have had words with the missus about not getting out of bed quick enough to deal with it before the alarm went off!

psneeld said:

Were you plugged into shore power with a battery charger on? The off gassing of a battery in trouble will set off CO detectors.

I have used big box store ones on 2 boats spanning 11 years of live aboard and they are fine, yet will trigger on battery issues and every once and awhile cold/ damp conditions.

Click to expand...

I have also experienced this, but on my boat only with the smoke/CO detector directly above the house battery bank.

Was there any smoke from the wildfires around? We had that happen on Lake Chelan many years ago on our SeaRay when there was a fire nearby and a breeze blew through the cabin.

My CO detectors (hard wired marine & Kidde Battery op) all go off if the holding tank leaks/overflows. Batteries charging is the more usual culprit though.

I’ll answer a couple of good thoughts. No smoke from wildfires. Batteries not charging (on the hook). Detector no where near the batteries or outside vent for holding tank.

We had one in our new home go bad last year... just would not stop until unplugged. Installed a new one, no issues. Bad luck? It’s the has happened 3 times on the boat that has us perplexed. I have 2 on the boat, one in the forward cabin and one in the aft cabin (where we sleep), it’s alway the one in the aft cabin that goes off.

Does methane set it off?

Smoke here now hides the sun. Alarms are silent, however.

I installed three new detectors a couple of months ago. One in the rear cabin, one in the salon and one in the front cabin. All three go off. Nothing running except air conditioner and solar charges the batts. Finally took out the batteries. Does a diesel boat really need a carbon monoxide detector?

Spray cleanser, and air fresheners can cause they to go bad.

Sidclark said:

I installed three new detectors a couple of months ago. One in the rear cabin, one in the salon and one in the front cabin. All three go off. Nothing running except air conditioner and solar charges the batts. Finally took out the batteries. Does a diesel boat really need a carbon monoxide detector?

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What make/model detectors? Our previous boat had detectors that were VERY picky about battery voltage level. If the power dropped too low they'd go off. Which was fun discovering in the middle of the night, scrambling for reading glasses trying to read the tiny print on the info sheet for it.

On our current boat we've got Safe-T-Alert units. Never had them trip. Replaced them last year, as the ones in there were original. Went with the black plastic housing as it doesn't stand out as obvious-looking as the white.

https://www.mtiindustries.com/product/65-series-marine-surface-mount/

wkearney99 said:

What make/model detectors? Our previous boat had detectors that were VERY picky about battery voltage level. If the power dropped too low they'd go off. Which was fun discovering in the middle of the night, scrambling for reading glasses trying to read the tiny print on the info sheet for it.

On our current boat we've got Safe-T-Alert units. Never had them trip. Replaced them last year, as the ones in there were original. Went with the black plastic housing as it doesn't stand out as obvious-looking as the white.

https://www.mtiindustries.com/product/65-series-marine-surface-mount/

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Got three of these...https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-B...GpPuDySeh_74rFTdlZQaAi5bEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Swapped out the batteries first thing....

Sidclark said:

Got three of these...https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-B...GpPuDySeh_74rFTdlZQaAi5bEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Swapped out the batteries first thing....

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A review there has a response from Kidde. Particulates causing problems with the sensor. Wonder if that might be a factor? Dusty kicked up from carpets or something?

markpierce said:

Smoke here now hides the sun. Alarms are silent, however.

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That'd be a whole other set of hassles, having all that airborne smoke causing detectors to trip.

I prefer to have separate smoke and CO detectors. Reason being that a smoke detector should be on the overhead (smoke rises), and it's recommended that CO detector be about head height when sleeping (CO is relatively inert in terms of rise or fall). I use good, battery powered domestic ones.

As to do you need one: I've read of incidents where a neighboring boat was running a generator and CO thus entered the subject boat. So it doesn't have to be your boat generating the CO. I don't think anyone will stop you in defeating the detectors though (insurance might want them but nothing is to stop you from de-activating them if you don't care to have them).

We have separate CO and smoke detectors. They both have a life span and will begin to chirp when they are ready to expire. You can check the date on the detector and then the manufacturer's website to determine if they have reached end of life - but most state the EOL month and date on the back. Marine CO detectors are sensitive to hydrogen gas and your batteries, especially if flooded lead, will set them off if there is a battery problem as well as anything else that emits hydrogen. The detectors are very sensitive and a battery emitting hydrogen in your engine room can set off a CO alarm in the salon or stateroom.

I was alerted by the marina that my alarm was going off. Found out it was the smoke from the wild fires that had blown into the Delta. It was a three hour round trip from home but at least I know the alarm works.

It's kind of funny that we all have these detectors but also all have reasons to ignore them when they go off. If that's the case, why bother?

backinblue said:

It's kind of funny that we all have these detectors but also all have reasons to ignore them when they go off. If that's the case, why bother?

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I don't think people are ignoring them, more finding out the reason they went off - and then ignoring THAT particular alarm event.

My CO detector alarmed for my 8D AGM battery going bad while charging overnight in the boat yard. The neighboring liveaboards were not happy that night and gave me an earful the next morning.

live2fish said:

We have separate CO and smoke detectors. They both have a life span and will begin to chirp when they are ready to expire. You can check the date on the detector and then the manufacturer's website to determine if they have reached end of life - but most state the EOL month and date on the back. Marine CO detectors are sensitive to hydrogen gas and your batteries, especially if flooded lead, will set them off if there is a battery problem as well as anything else that emits hydrogen. The detectors are very sensitive and a battery emitting hydrogen in your engine room can set off a CO alarm in the salon or stateroom.

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The only thing running on my boat is the AC. The batteries, six brand new Trojan t105's are kept topped up with solar. If it really is hydrogen setting them off not sure what the solution is. I'll be at the boat tomorrow and I'm going to run the engine blower for a few days and see if that makes a difference in evacuating the hydrogen off the boat. If that stops the false alarms then I think I can assume when we start our winter cruise the boat will be more naturally ventilated since we'll be living aboard. I'll report back on how the blower worked or not....

I put in two of the battery-powered version of the Nest Protect. The only things that have set them off so far were legit and obvious crew screwups - running our gas engines at dock with the aft cabin door open, and cooking over propane with the cabin sealed up. They are more communicative and easier to silence than others I've tried. They do want an internet connection, and need one for initial setup, but crappy internet-over-cellular has proven to be adequate. They've worked fine for a couple of years. Expensive, yes, but far less aggravating, and the batteries last a very long time.

Rtfm

Dave_E said:

Hi All,

We were two nights into our 10 night cruise in the San Juans when we were awakened to the screaming of our smoke/CO alarm in the aft cabin (where we were). Of course there is no silencing of the beast as it was one of those no replaceable battery types. So I had to break off the tab and switch it off, now rendering it inoperative. No smoke to be found, nothing running, (kind of hard to have a CO event). This is the 3rd time this has happened on our boat. It's driving me crazy. I looked on line and it appears the marine industry CO detectors are quite expensive on their own. The smoke detectors are relatively inexpensive. I had purchased a combo smoke/CO detector from Lowes, i.e. home builder grade. Is there something I'm missing?

Dave

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My original unit was ‘alarming’ intermittently which proved a design element indicating it was too old to be reliable & needed to be replaced.
The replacement was expensive BUT I learned marine CO detectors are more sophisticated than those typical in the home; you need to RTFM!
Boats are ASSUMED to have inherent CO exposure (homes don’t have engines, & don’t move; adjacent homes don’t have engines or move around either, and all home exhaust goes up a chimney!)
The marine detectors track exposure over time vs. triggering only over a simple level.
Spend the money and sleep better.
PS: outgassing from batteries under charge will trig them; be glad.

If an alarm is good enough for the house...I believe its good enough for the boat as far as safety.

A small furnace leak can be exactly the same as a small boat engine exhaust leak....or any other scenario for that matter. Yes there are different detection methods...but after some study of both types of detectors, I feel both are suitable if they trigger when supposed to and false alarm only occasionally or by "other" events.

I agree with psneeld on this. We have good hardware store smoke detectors throughout the boat, including in the battery and engine spaces.

We do have, as suggested by the surveyor and required by the insurer, a hardwired marine CO detector in the master stateroom. This started going off soon after installation and I ended up having it replaced by the manufacturer. We have a diesel engine, no generator, and the only other combustion source aboard is our diesel galley stove. I had a long telephone conversation with the tech guy at the detector manufacturer. This was very educational.

I learned about the averaging of readings that was mentioned above, and learned about the many things that can cause false alarms on these things. He mentioned that common ones were alcohol and many types of cleaners, as well as offgassing batteries and diesel fuel.

There was a local physician years ago who died of carbon monoxide poisoning aboard his sailboat. We certainly want to avoid that fate, want to satisfy the underwriters, but also understand the reality of what happens when we scrub the bilges in our old fishboat.

Our CO detector is still installed, of course, but we do occasionally have to remove the fuse from the power supply wire when cleaning.