Deposit Made

Been contemplating this old girl for quite some time, and finally we are closing in on the finish line.
In the next few weeks Survey and Sea Trial, I have a couple questions for the guys and gals that have similar boats with upper deck hard tops.
How is the roll with added weight up top?
Sorry I don’t have the proper name for them, has anyone put those fibre glass fins that run mostly the length of the hull?
Would you ever consider a hoist to put dinghy on top? Concerned with even more weight up high myself.?
Chime in even if you don’t have an upper deck I am curious on Trawler handling! Wind? Strong Currents?

Troy

Congratulations on the potential new boat! Fingers crossed that survey and seatrial go well.

Ted

Congrats on your new boat. Hope the seatrial and survey go well. We have a 41’ sundeck trawler. We absolutely love the hardtop on the sundeck. It adds another room to the boat. As to weight up top, we don’t have any issues with it and our boat has pretty round chines, if there actually is a chine on our boat. I would not put a crane and dinghy up there though. A lot of people do have them up there though.

I agree the extra living space is worth a few cons. I have never steered a trawler so my wife and I are a little worried. I have been told these hulls are more forgiving with a soft easy roll. Not sure what expect, we are coming from a rigid not much of a roll kinda fast Hull boat.
Been going 7 knots for that last 4 yrs, so the speed adjustment won’t be dramatic for us.

Okydowky said:

I agree the extra living space is worth a few cons. I have never steered a trawler so my wife and I are a little worried. I have been told these hulls are more forgiving with a soft easy roll. Not sure what expect, we are coming from a rigid not much of a roll kinda fast Hull boat.
Been going 7 knots for that last 4 yrs, so the speed adjustment won’t be dramatic for us.

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Wifey B: Don't buy the trawler more forgiving or softer roll vs a faster boat. Every boat, every hull is different. I'll put my fast baby boat against them.

But don't worry about the penthouse shelter either. The added weight and windage is not likely to be noticeable. If you get roll, it's the hull, not the top and may be a sign stabilizers are needed. Most hardtops weigh less than you'd expect. Keeping them as light as possible is one of the goals. That's why many on fiberglass boats are actually aluminum. The builders engineer things generally pretty well.

On your sea trial, check those things that concern you. Do some rough seas even if you have to create your own. Sit as if anchored and see how it rolls. Anything you question about it, take the time to check.

If you like 7 knots, then you'll probably like the boat you're looking at. Now it's just condition that is up in the air. I'm just not a 7 knots kind of girl but most here are....well not girls, or they won't admit being one, but 7 knots kind of people.

If question is adding a hardtop to your flybridge, you might consider some of the mail-order ones with polycarbonate sheets as top panels over SS frame. Appear to be quite lightweight. A quick Google search found Home | Hard To Top

As for the hull fins, I believe you are referring to roll-chocks. Decent discussion in this TF thread, including some pictures along the way. Several Willard 40's have had them fitted, one just a couple months ago while he was twiddling his thumbs during Covid lockdown in San Carlos MX

As for putting your dinghy on the hard top over the sundeck, folks do it all the time. Yours looks a bit small so it might be tight, but tough to tell from pictures. Check out Nick Jackson Pipe Davits for an off-the-shelf solution. Good guy and makes a nice product.

Good luck with your sea trial and survey. FYI - I attached a "Sea Trial" template that gives a decent checklist of stuff to check while on a sea trial or doing your own pre-survey.

Peter

View attachment SeaSkills Sea Trial Template.pdf

Exciting time! Hope all goes well with the survey and sea trial. The hard top over the aft deck adds another room or another dimension to the living space. Very nice addition.

In the photos, the aft deck roof appears to have plenty of support so you should be able to store a dinghy up there. Probably best to keep the weight around 400-500 pounds. You'll need to install a davit crane to lift it up there. Those can be found used for a fairly reasonable price. We've had a dinghy on the aft deck roof on our last two boats and didn't find it caused much additional rolling.

Don't be concerned about the roll. The weight up top has been computed into the build specs and design. My boat is similar to yours and doesn't roll much. Sure in five footers it is uncomfortable, to say the least, but still stable. A hoist and 700 pound dinghy up there might tip the scales a bit though. The full length stabilizing fins were a rage a few years ago but you don't see them a lot anymore. My personal feeling is that they would work but are really not needed and probably not worth the cost to have them fabricated.

I see the flybridge railing is enclosed with either plastic or fabric. Combined with the arch this offers a big "sail" to catch the wind. Might be difficult to dock in a blow.

Otherwise ..Buy It

Pete

Hi Pete what is the weight of your Albin? Is your hull 36’ or is this LOA? You also have FL120? Just trying to get an idea of similar boat weights.
This one has Twinn FL90 and 36’ hull, paper work says #26000.
The glass walls on the upper deck seem very heavy, the stern man gate feels probably 40 pounds just for that size of piece. Thought about in the future maybe canvas to replace it. This may help off set of weight if I could get a smaller dink and hoist up to.
It’s not the end of the world if we can’t, we mainly tow ours now because of our fur baby.

I have the exact boat with the hardtop removed. All these boats roll in a seaway so don't be surprised.

The sundeck wind guard, it appears identical to ours, is cored fiberglass. It's very strong but heavy. We considered replacing it with canvas however it presently anchors our dinghy davit system. I did say it was strong.

Take a very hard look at the rudder area. These boats are known for water penetration around the rudder tube. The wooden plate the rudder post is mounted on will almost certainly have water in it. Rap it good all over with a hard plastic mallet. You'll hear the wet spots.

Another issue with this boat are the cutlass bearings. Many of them are installed in fiberglass tubes and are notoriously difficult to replace. I've tried several times to get mine out and gave up. They need to be cut out but I don't want to that unless it's in a yard with a good glass shop available to fix up any damage.

Another thing to at are the aft salon sliding windows. It's a silly design for draining so check under the windows and the salon seat for stains/rot. Look inside the storage cabinet by the window too, it will get wet right behind the window inside the cupboard.

Our Nova sundeck trawler rolls in any kind of a beam sea, and yes, the side salon windows do leak. Windage can be a problem when docking. Our slip is beam to, so when docking knowing the direction and strength of current flow is critical. Don't know what make engines you have, but we have VOLVOs and "enjoy" the worst customer service in the boating industry. Repair parts, if you can find them, cost triple those of Cat or Cummins. Be forewarned.

Ours was imported as a Sealord 35 which in the US is an Oceania 35.

We have a single Perkins Range 4 and in a breeze with this much windage it can be interesting despite the bow thruster. I think these particular boats have undersized rudders. I’ve been contemplating a mod to put flow plates on the top and bottom of the rudder plate to improve the slow speed handling.

All said though the boat is very comfortable. We both enjoy the sun deck very much and get lots of comments on the available space. Would I change some things, absolutely (we have done a lot), however all in all it’s a terrific lake/loop boat.

Ksceviour and ancora, really appreciate these common issues you have brought to my attention. We are still going into this deal open minded and realize we are not purcha 2020, Specific things to look for really help.
The rudder issue is valid, this boat had a survey in 2015 and port rudder leaking badly needing immediate attention then.
We stripped the bed down 2 wks ago and found port rudder leaking pretty good, you maybe correct there could be some hull issue there.
I also agree for 36’, you get an amazing roomy layout and storage area. And as you have noted you become a bit of a sail boat, our current boat doesn’t like wind either. I was hoping Over doubling the weight may slow the wind down a bit on the hull. Or make it worse to catch the boat on the dock.
Thanks again

Money WELL Spent

Survey says? Run!

How many of you had a 10 min survey and a boat fails.

I strongly recommend a haul out, pressure wash and a good surveyor with a hammer with a bunch of trades doing what they do best finding issues.
Needless to say it’s the best $1350 bucks I have ever thrown over board.

Sorry to hear that, but better than owning a disaster.

Ted

There is an article in Pacific Yachting of stabilizing fins running the waterline length of your boat that seem to work. The commercial fisherman out of French Creek will install them to give greater side to side stabilization.

The fins will taper from almost nothing at the front of your boat to something like a foot or more at the back of the boat. In the article I think it ran the guy something like $5000.

The good news for you is that the guy/company that does it is in the same location as Independent Marine Supply Store in Coombs. My understanding is the guy will travel to your location. Call the store listed below and they will tell you how to get a hold of the guy, apparently email is best, he is so busy he doesn't answer his phone.

https://www.independentmarine.ca/

Thought I would edit this in. If it were I getting that boat and cruising in our area, I'd definitely get soft side roll downs to enclose the cockpit area. When its raining on that very rare coastal BC day, it's nice to have another area you can go sit and relax without getting a free shower with the wind blowing rain in.

What exactly did the surveyor find other than the rudder problem?

Okydowky said:

Survey says? Run!

How many of you had a 10 min survey and a boat fails.

I strongly recommend a haul out, pressure wash and a good surveyor with a hammer with a bunch of trades doing what they do best finding issues.
Needless to say it’s the best $1350 bucks I have ever thrown over board.

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Me. Boat came out of the water and every bit of the running gear was eaten up with corrosion. BUT.....I ended up buying the boat at an extremely reduced price and ended up enjoying the boat thoroughly for almost 7 years. It is the Carver in my signature.

Yes the port rudder had a continual flow inside the boat through the shaft once pulled both rudders were very loose and diagnosis needed new tubes.
Keel damage showing and a pour repair and delam, anti foul and gel flaked off to primer where port shaft enter hull showing more wounds.
Port shaft prop butt end bent, including new old shaft coupler with bolts lying in the bilge. Kind of explains the heavy vibrations from the port engine. Vote was in the yard bottomed pretty hard.
Bow/ decks and lower cabin rotten, and delam upper helm deck.
Lots of blisters, but I knew that going in and was prepared for it. Again not sure if the owner was playing the ignorance card, once we cancelled the survey I call him and asked him to show up. He came and what I expected, your not buying a new boat and I have been out to see in worse.
Anyways $1000k none refundable deposit $50 lol survey for 10 min and $300 haul out. I would spend that money again to get out of this mess.

On a brighter note we are taking possession of a immaculate 40’ Tollycraft Sundeck tomorrow, all I can say is beautiful and beautiful and no wood beautiful! Did a say beautiful?
Our pickup is loaded with every boat possession we own, 1 stop fuel dock and 16 hr steam to our home port that’s how good this boat is maintained.
Every dark cloud has a silver lining...

non refundable deposit . that sucks he is making money off playing dumb . i got a refund from the same situation but my surveyor just gave 200 off for not writing up the survey . i sure would love to have a tollycraft .a 44 is my dream maybe one day. congrats

Okydowky said:

Yes the port rudder had a continual flow inside the boat through the shaft once pulled both rudders were very loose and diagnosis needed new tubes.
Keel damage showing and a pour repair and delam, anti foul and gel flaked off to primer where port shaft enter hull showing more wounds.
Port shaft prop butt end bent, including new old shaft coupler with bolts lying in the bilge. Kind of explains the heavy vibrations from the port engine. Vote was in the yard bottomed pretty hard.
Bow/ decks and lower cabin rotten, and delam upper helm deck.
Lots of blisters, but I knew that going in and was prepared for it. Again not sure if the owner was playing the ignorance card, once we cancelled the survey I call him and asked him to show up. He came and what I expected, your not buying a new boat and I have been out to see in worse.
Anyways $1000k none refundable deposit $50 lol survey for 10 min and $300 haul out. I would spend that money again to get out of this mess.

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You're a far nicer person than I am. If I'm out $1K on a non refundable deposit, I would have found the company insuring his boat and given them a call regarding their potential liability, that the owner is fully aware of.

Ted

Insurance?? The boat isn’t even In his name. The marina is now aware and checking into insurance.

Just to correct a few simple things on the surveys. Boats don't "pass or fail" a survey it is only a condition report at the time of survey. It is up to the buyer to accept or reject the boat after reading the report.

I would guess that you didn't go through a broker for the offer and deposit. The broker usually writes the offer so that the deposit is fully refundable in the event that you reject the boat after survey. you would still be responsible for the haul out and survey expense.

Just a thought when using a broker I would NEVER use the sellers broker.
He is responsible to the seller not the buyer.

fgarriso said:

Just to correct a few simple things on the surveys. Boats don't "pass or fail" a survey it is only a condition report at the time of survey. It is up to the buyer to accept or reject the boat after reading the report.

I would guess that you didn't go through a broker for the offer and deposit. The broker usually writes the offer so that the deposit is fully refundable in the event that you reject the boat after survey. you would still be responsible for the haul out and survey expense.

Just a thought when using a broker I would NEVER use the sellers broker.
He is responsible to the seller not the buyer.

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Good clarification on #1 - vessel does not pass/fail. Buyer accepts/rejects.

Not sure I understand #2 - I'm sure there are rare exceptions, but buyer is always responsible for cost of inspections, including haul/survey/etc

#3? I'm one of those folks who do not believe a "Buyer's Broker" exists. There are people who can assist and advise a buyer (Steve D'Antonio being a great example), but as far as being recognized and licensed by a state agency to conduct a transaction and who are credentialed by a professional organization, there are only Brokers, and they take a cut of the sale - buyer does not have a dog in that fight.

The vast majority of broker's I've met are knowledgeable, honest, and take great pride in finding the right boat for a buyer even though the sales' cycle may take months (if not years). Of course, with exception of recent times, it has been much harder to find a buyer than a boat so buyer's tended to be treated with velvet gloves.

Peter

mvweebles said:

Good clarification on #1 - vessel does not pass/fail. Buyer accepts/rejects.

Not sure I understand #2 - I'm sure there are rare exceptions, but buyer is always responsible for cost of inspections, including haul/survey/etc

#3? I'm one of those folks who do not believe a "Buyer's Broker" exists. There are people who can assist and advise a buyer (Steve D'Antonio being a great example), but as far as being recognized and licensed by a state agency to conduct a transaction and who are credentialed by a professional organization, there are only Brokers, and they take a cut of the sale - buyer does not have a dog in that fight.

The vast majority of broker's I've met are knowledgeable, honest, and take great pride in finding the right boat for a buyer even though the sales' cycle may take months (if not years). Of course, with exception of recent times, it has been much harder to find a buyer than a boat so buyer's tended to be treated with velvet gloves.

Peter

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Peter
I think we are in agreement except for you last comment.
During discussions with YOUR broker there are items discussed that I would never discuss with the sellers broker.

fgarriso said:

Peter
I think we are in agreement except for you last comment.
During discussions with YOUR broker there are items discussed that I would never discuss with the sellers broker.

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I still don't understand. I've never looked at a broker or agent as 'mine.' I expect a broker to adhere to their professional code of ethics, and have the experience to professionally move through the myriad of deal-killers that happen in many deals. Given two similarly situated brokers - one I brought to the table and one the seller brought to the table, I cannot think of much I would discuss with one but not the other. I may know 'my' broker better and thus have a different type of discussion, but that's based on personal attributes and history with the person, not their standing in the deal.

Peter