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Spraygun

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
46
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Cast Off
Vessel Make
1984 hunter 34
The wife and I are exploring the idea of living aboard in a few months.We currently have a Hunter sailboat.We are not in a huge hurry to purchase.We really want this to be our last purchase of boats.So we will take it slow.We want to be able to go from Texas to caribbean.Weather permitting,of course.I like the idea of steel.My question is will this style of boat make these trips.Before I drive over to see it.I realize it has a deep draft for the caribbean.This boat seems like a fair enough price to allow for many upgrades.I really like that style.I welcome all advice.
1978 Custom Steel Long Range Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com.
 
She looks good to me from here but that is a lot of draft. Is she a shrimper conversion?
I have never cruised the Caribbean maybe you could ask around in the sail boat forums there are lots of them down there.
I see the Genset is supplied by M&L out of Houma La. where I keep my Monk.
Steve W
 
Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr. Spraygun. Of course that sort of boat can make those trips. The question that arises and was alluded to by Mr. Steve is how many places can you gunkhole around in with that kind of draft. As I'm sure you're aware get a good survey of all systems.
 
I would not want a boat with that much draft!! I would look for a good coastal cruiser with 4 feet or less of draft- that is what most will have in the 40-50' range. Very shallow waters in the FL, etc. and less draft the better for down there.
 
7'8" draft?YIKES!Something closer to 3' would be less stress full.
 
If the draft of the boat is an issue, the draft with the paravanes deployed will be even greater.

There's a lot of steel on that boat, and if the red boot stripe is any indication, it was painted with...I dunno, a mop?

There's a huge amount of space - especially compared to a 34' sailboat - but it's not particularly well used. 2500 gallons of fuel capacity sounds like more of a headache than a feature.

It certainly looks sturdy! <smile>
 
So can we all agree,that at the very least...as long as this thing can pass a survey....this design will cross gulf of mexico without much issue?The interior is for the most part not desireable.but it is a nice blank canvas for us.but I'm still looking at other boats.
 
The draft is a real issue, even for coastal cruising on the east cost (ICW). If you are willing to spend that amount of money, you can do MUCH better. Keep looking, it's part of the fun.
 
I think something around 5 or 6 feet is the maintained depth on the ICW.
 
Ok...but don't really plan on the ditch trips...or going to florida...no desires for east coast....thanks for replies.some really put things into perspective.will keep on looking
 
Greetings,
I, for one, agree that this design will handle various crossings under suitable weather conditions but so will quite a number of other vessels.
As I mentioned previously, the main question that arises, particularly in the cases of the Caribbean and Florida, is how much a 7'8" draft, with the "birds" not deployed, will limit your travels throughout the area.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from purchasing this boat but think of what boat will give you the MOST variety of cruising/living aboard options over the longest period of time.
 
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That boat could probable cross an ocean with its deep draft, 2,500 gallon tanks, fish stabilizers and tonnage. It would be a great boat for the PNW. However, as mentioned the large fuel tanks can be a concern as the newer diesel should be turned every few years. However, there are pluses and minuses of leaving the tanks empty, but it probable has several individual tanks, so maintain/use one or two of the tanks?

The 671 engine is a proven, dependable, long live and parts/service available. Most of the older long range commercial trawlers and our Eagle have 671. the plus is they can be rebuild in frame/place. Draft might be a concern but being a single with as shoe protect prop even if you do go aground should not be to much of a concern. I have grounded the Eagle several time, and at – 3 foot tides the Eagle sits on the bottom at our dock. Having a single/protect prop is better than having bare un protected prop hand down, even with a low draft. You have a sail boat so your use to a deep draft and good ultra stasility.

Many long range trawler are stark/shippy/functional. If you are planning on going out in rough open water being stark/shippy/functional is a plus. However, you can warm them up with lighting/texture/carpet/remodel. The Eagle was stark/shippy/functional when we bought her. I still call her the slow ugly old trawler as that was my first impression of her. However, my wife like/wanted/bought the Eagle and since then we have PIMPED it out, so it’s a great a live aboard.:flowers:

If you plan on being a live aboard, remember you will be a live aboard 100% of the time and cruising as small % of time. So don’t just look at the mechanical/electronics, be sure to look/consider the creature comforts. If you are just starting to look at trawler make sure you go on as many as you can, and most of all, TAKE NOTE WHAT YOUR SO LIKES/DISLIKES. Keep the SO happy and you will happy. :socool:
 
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Steel is equated to safety/security, but the longer one indulges in trawlering the more one realizes that other options serve just as well.

That draft would be great for blue water but in reality how much time will you actually spend out there. You say now that you're not interested in the ICW, FL etc. but that could change once you get into spending time aboard.
 
Man, Phil Fill,you sound like exactly what I am thinking.I will take the wife to see all the beautiful plastic boats.then I will drive to Beaumont and show her the old iron horse.If she can see potential.Then I am golden.but I still need to call ahead and ask some questions.the single 671 with a protected prop is a big deal to me.but this thing could be a giant floating turd.
 
I fell in love with a similar trawler conversion in the PNW, and woulda gobbled it up if I lived out there, but I settled on the boat I have now cuz I my Admiral and I love to gunk hole. Here in Biscayne Bay (Miami), your cruise area would be a constant worry, and lots of the ICW would be too. I can sure understand your feelings about this kind of boat though. It's a man thing.
 
Is a 671 really rated at 240 hp? I thought it to be more in the 185 hp range.
 
So can we all agree,that at the very least...as long as this thing can pass a survey....this design will cross gulf of mexico without much issue?
Yes
The interior is for the most part not desireable.but it is a nice blank canvas for us.
IMHO, much of the "value" in this boat is the refurbished interior - if you don't value that, then I'm confident you could find a similar boat - uncoverted - for much less money and do the work yourself to your own taste.

Also, while you intend to keep the vessel for many years, the draft issue surely figures into the current asking price, and will turn around and bite you when you resell it in a shallow-draft area.

Keep looking - I think you can do better.
 
I just purchased a Trawler and went through the whole Buyers Broker crappola.. do yourself a HUGE Favor.. SKIP the Broker.. you can do it on your own and the Broker offers NO value to your enterprise... good luck.
 
When we first started looking we where looking at the Bayline, Ocean, SeaRay the plastic faster pilot house boats. We were having lunch on Lake Union and my wife saw this ugly old trawler sticking out past the pretty shiny plastic boats we where looking at. We never look a trawler type boats like the Grand, Defever etc.

My wife commented that she was going to look at that big old boat while I paid the bill and made some phone calls as I was not interested. Live was good! :socool: I found my wife laying on the master bed, she said “This is THE boat! The boat had everything she wanted, stability, quiet, pilot house, solid rails, Portuguese bridge, wide body, bigger than the boat we were looking, and it was ½ the price of the plastic boats we were looking at. Suddenly live was not AS good! :eek:

One of the concerns about older steel boats is what you can not see behind the interior walls, mold/rust/mildew. I would thing down south where it hot/humid that might be a problem. So look and smell for signs. When buying and older boat that need work or remodeling, make sure you have the cash/funds as it’s almost impossible to get financing to repair/remodel a boat. Also look at the total round trip cost of buying the boat, repairing/remodeling the boat, owning the boat and selling the boat. It might be better cash wise and/or total cost to buy more expensive boat that meets all you needs/wants. The first 3 years we dumped 20 to 30 grand pimping out the boat. :flowers:

Anywa follow the wife around as you might be surprised. :confused:
 
just remember...ALL boats of ALL kinds of construction will need major work at some point.

What are YOU prepared to tackle???? What can you afford to pay for someone else to do the work????

Many boats are bought and maintained and run just fine till the first big overhaul...then they are repossessed...go figure..:D

Again...think ahead so you don't wind up in a jamb....

This is why more pros are putting on their business cards...prepurchase "evaluation with prospective buyer" type advice...talk to and pay the right person can avoid HUGE hetache and financial disaster later.
 
How are you at welding? Looks like you will have to either haul to replace the 20+ zincs or find a diver that can do it. I agree with others, there is a lot out there in that price range the you can resell when the time comes.
 
OK...the draft is just not practical.I will have to find something else.I still have plenty of time.the pickins are pretty slim right now in Texas and Lousiana.It took us 11 months to find our last boat.And for flyguy...I like to weld and have had to pass test or two on welding.Metal-work is not a hobby, but small doses of it can be fun. This is a really nice forum. Everyone is so curtious and civil compared to others.I'm glad to hopefully cross over to the dark side.
 
I think something around 5 or 6 feet is the maintained depth on the ICW.
In theory, maybe. In practice, you have to account for tides. There are several trouble spots. And the shoals move around so the deep place on your chart or plotter may no longer be the deep place.

I managed to find spots less than four feet on my recent trip between Charleston, SC and Florida.
 
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Well, we hit the Galveston bay area Saturday.It was our first time out with list of boats in hand.We looked at about six.we saw some beautiful boats.The sad thing was,all but one had leaking windows, port holes,doors/companion ways.luckily it was lightly raining so I was glad to see all the leaks without much effort.All but one boat,were just deteriorating from something so simple to fix.cosmetically it was bad enough on all the beautiful wood...but what was lurking behind it? ( I know already) I just can't see how people can let this happen for something that cost so much money.I was almost embarassed for the owners of these vessels.Because while we were standing in the salons of each boat.and while the broker was talking ....little drops of water were catching my attention all around.On a lighter note.The wife was impressed on the amount of room.She really felt at home on some of them.That was a good thing.It was her first time onboard something other than a sailboat.I went into the engine room on every boat with extra lighting to really look deeper into things.Since we are sailors I am not to familiar wth larger diesels.My question is about something that I saw on a m/y with twins.It had water cooled turbos.should I stay away from something like that.I am sure they are not cheap to repair.Or are they pretty reliable (life span length of motor)and more efficient for fuel consumption? And second question is when is over-haul required on engines, other than when it has become obvious? Like age or hours.Or just run them until things start to take a turn in the wrong direction?....Thanks
 
From Pascoe's book:
"Turbo chargers are the Achilles heel of the marine diesel, proving to be the most frequently overhauled and replaced piece of equipment. That is becaues they get so hot, are subject to severe vibration, and is the last item in the lubricating oil scheme, so they are lubed with the hottest oil. Thus, turbo bearings most commonly fail."
You didn't give details of the boat or engines, but twin turbos to me means planing and not trawlering. I think I've seen some folks mention removing turbos, but as I recall it's not cost effective.

The more impotant factor is that the turbo-diesels you looked at are likely "high-perfomance" engines. Pascoe - based on his observations on many hundreds of engines - came up with a ratio that compares HP to engine displacement (in cubic inches), and concluded that "ratios greater than 1:1 indicate an engine thas has been souped up too much, and is very likely to suffer reduced service life".

There are some threads about the engine life of high-speed diesels on THT (note that most boat owners are operating individually as a "one rat study"). If you have questions about the reliability of a specific engine, BoatDiesel.com would be a good place to look (and ask).
 
yes...I'm sorry not to give details on boat and engines.I did not want to be too lengthy in my comments.This particular boat was not a trawler.It just happened to be the only boat that was maintained.Everything else had too much water coming in for us.the turbos appeared to be water cooled though.But I guess that does not really matter ,if it is the Achilles heel of marine diesel. It was just a very general question about turbos.It seems the line between trawlers and similar style boats is sometimes blurred....at least for me.....since I am sailboat guy.But the hull was a dead giveaway. I will try to keep my post limited to trawler questions.
 
Ah, don't worry about being lengthy!

And as previous threads have supported, trawlering (at least on this forum) is pretty inclusive - and there are many members who have twin-turbodiesels and often run above displacement speeds!
 
And second question is when is over-haul required on engines, other than when it has become obvious? Like age or hours.Or just run them until things start to take a turn in the wrong direction?....Thanks

Marine diesels, at least in recreational service, don't have TBOs (Time Between Overhaul) requirements like you get on aircraft engines and the like. They do have manufacturer's recommended service intervals which should be followed. And engine makes and models that have been around for a long time will have built up a reputation for having a service life of some average number of hours.

For example, the venerable Ford Lehman 120, an engine based on the Ford of England Dorset truck/industrial/agricultural engine designed in the 1950s and marinized in the 60s by Lehman in New Jersey, is said to have a service life in recreational boat applications of 12,000 to 14,000 hours before the core of the engine will need an overhaul. This is assuming the engine is operated per the manufacturer/Lehman recommendations and is serviced and maintained properly. Other types of engines may have average service lives of less hours.

It is said that the modern, high-speed, turboed diesels used in many newer boats today have average service lives considerably shorter than the old thumpers like Lehmans, Perkins, etc. Whether this is actually true or not is something I don't know. My only marine diesel experience has been with the FL120. Boating is notorious for blowing things out of proportion, so the "high speed, hot turbo engines have short lives" thing may be more myth than reality. But you would want input from a professional engine/propulsion system person like Rick B on this forum or an experienced diesel shop before you made any judgments on this issue.

There's no telling when water pumps, fuel pumps, injectors, injection pumps, starters, hoses, heat exchangers, etc. might begin to falter or fail outright. These issues will need to be dealt with when they come up. Some can be anticipated, which is why most operators change out wear items like flexible pump impellers, drive belts, zincs, etc. on a regular schedule. Other items, particularly hoses, can be monitored for potential deterioration. But some things--- like a fuel injector pipe that suddenly develops a crack or pinhole--- can't be anticipated.

When shopping for a boat the way the engine(s) were treated by previous owners is far more important than the total number of hours on the engine(s). For example, given the choice between a Ford Lehman 120 with 3,000 hours on it but with a questionable or poor previous owner record and a Ford Lehman 120 with 7000 hours on it that was operated, serviced, and maintained properly by a conscientious owner, I would take the boat with the 7000 hour engine, all else being equal.
 
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Marin said: "When shopping for a boat the way the engine(s) were treated by previous owners is far more important than the total number of hours on the engine(s). For example, given the choice between a Ford Lehman 120 with 3,000 hours on it but with a questionable or poor previous owner record and a Ford Lehman 120 with 7000 hours on it that was operated, serviced, and maintained properly by a conscientious owner, I would take the boat with the 7000 hour engine, all else being equal."

Got me curious. I went to Yachtworld, and searched on trawlers, 1985 and older,up to 36 feet, keyword "Lehman". Turned up a slew of boats, from MT/CHB to a lot of GB32's, all with 120 Lehmans -- and you might be surprised at the hours that are quoted. A couple of mentions of rebuilds, and a few where hours aren't mentioned (I wonder why:huh:) but the majority are only in the 2500-3600 range, the highest stated being 4400 hours. Either the old boats never got used that much, or owners are turning back the clock. If there is a 7,000 hour boat out there, it isn't for sale. BTW ... I have ~4400 on my MT34.
 
Marin said: "When shopping for a boat the way the engine(s) were treated by previous owners is far more important than the total number of hours on the engine(s). For example, given the choice between a Ford Lehman 120 with 3,000 hours on it but with a questionable or poor previous owner record and a Ford Lehman 120 with 7000 hours on it that was operated, serviced, and maintained properly by a conscientious owner, I would take the boat with the 7000 hour engine, all else being equal."

Got me curious. I went to Yachtworld, and searched on trawlers, 1985 and older,up to 36 feet, keyword "Lehman". Turned up a slew of boats, from MT/CHB to a lot of GB32's, all with 120 Lehmans -- and you might be surprised at the hours that are quoted. A couple of mentions of rebuilds, and a few where hours aren't mentioned (I wonder why:huh:) but the majority are only in the 2500-3600 range, the highest stated being 4400 hours. Either the old boats never got used that much, or owners are turning back the clock. If there is a 7,000 hour boat out there, it isn't for sale. BTW ... I have ~4400 on my MT34.
Shouldn't be all that suprising...the average number of hours of use put on a boat is between 100-200 hrs a year.

Unless you are retired and living aboard or cruising full time..the chances of putting on more than that are pretty low. Even a loop may only be 1000-1500 hours unless you do the mega 7000 mile one.

And if you only went UP to 36 feet...well I think 36 foot trawlers are generally local boats...I think full time cruisers/liveaboards are generally up a notch...so I woulsd expect lower engine hrs. Not saying 36 footers can/aren't...just generally for longer cruising....
 
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