Might jump over from sailing...

A lot is different spacewise

A sailboats cabin is snug, mostly dark and can be a bit cave like. This is not pejorative, I rather like being down in a sailboat cabin hearing rain patter on the deck and totes, and yes even halyards tapping on the mast. A trawler generally has much larger windows and an open, airy feel inside. You steer from the wheelhouse and in rainy weather you turn on the windshield wipers rather than don your foul weather gear.

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TandJRacing said:

My wife and I have a San Juan 24 that I've put quite a bit of effort into ensuring she's safe, suitable and smart looking, but the wife just doesn't like sailing as much as I do. We've talked recently about getting a trawler instead to cruise the San Juans and beyond in more comfort, if more expense.

Here's our priority list for a trawler, based on desires, experience and capabilities:
-Cost: Sub-$75k for sure, sub-$50k for the right boat
-Hull: I'm not crazy about wood. I like the idea, but have seen too many customers unaware of serious developing issues that just wouldn't happen with fiberglass.
-History and condition: I worked at a local boatyard and was a crew chief for a motorcycle race team for 12 years, plus I do have the Nigel Calder book. I'm comfortable performing most repairs that don't require cylinder head removal or opening a boat transmission. That said, of course better is better, and time cruising is better than time wiring and varnishing.
-Looks: The missus has to think she's pretty, of course.
-LOA: I need to be able to singlehand on a regular basis in year-round PNW weather. Also, bow thruster. Also, a cheaper slip is a huge plus.
-Beam and stability: If she's too "rolly" we're back where I am now with the wife uncomfortable at sea.
-GPH: A major part of why I love sailing is cost per mile. Reasonable GPH at cruising speed is a must.
-Speed: Semi-planing seems nice to have, but seems likely to price us out.

What sayeth the group? Is this a fool's errand or are there possibilities for us? I traded a motorcycle for my trusty SJ24 Wasabi, so even $50-$75k is a huge jump for us. That said, we both love the water and the San Juans, but getting the missus to commit to days aboard my little sailboat ain't gonna happen.

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I seriously recommend that you charter a trawler of the size you are contemplating for a few days and see what you are getting into. In beam seas they roll like a bastard. In on coming seas of any size they hobby horse a lot. And I own a Trawler so I'm not bad mouthing something that I don't know anything about. I love my boat (most days). Just go into it with eyes wide open.

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and everyone "knows a guy...." who found this or that but I would be very careful about buying a sub $50k 30 year old boat. Your'e likely to spend that much to make it useable.

Happy hunting!

Former sailor now trawler-or...

I grew up sailing and cruising the Maine coast in a 31' F/G full keel boat. For health/mobility reasons, we moved to power boats with swim platforms and walk through transoms so my wife can come and go unassisted by me (in a slip).

The biggest difference is we would cruise by sail in the afternoons and aim for a pre-sunset landing at whatever our destination was. Afterall the wind is best in the afternoons. Cruising by power is just the opposite. You will leave with the sunrise and try to be destinated by 1:00pm or 2:00pm. Sailboats "converted" to power cruisers are very stable and fuel efficient, and almost go as fast as our Trawlers do. Just a thought. You can get into a big sailboat easier in your price range than a trawler. Then just outfit it for power cruising.
Lots of loopers do it this way. Draft is the thing to watch obviously.

oscar said:

Nope. Look at a lateral cutaway. In the interest of performance the sail boat has minimal volume around the human envelope. The trawler is almost square. HUGE difference in volume. It's not all about floor space.

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Absolutely!

Even if they were similar in volume...the feel from the trawler's windows make the difference.

Those same features are why I feel more secure offshore in most sailboats over most similar sized trawlers.

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JLD said:

I think this is a great comment about not falling in love with the outside appearance of a boat!

However, I don't think it is necessarily true that a sailboat will feel smaller than a trawler. Yes, it may feel different, but not necessarily smaller.

Here is the inside layout of a Grand Banks 36 and a Hunter 376. They are two very similar size boats.

[/IMG]

The Grand Banks has a LOA of around 36'10" with a 12'8" beam. The Hunter has a LOA of around 37'3" with a 12'7" beam. The headroom in the aft cabin of the Hunter is more limited above the bed as the cockpit floor hangs down, but otherwise, the inside area is about the same.

Jim

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There is absolutely no comparison between the feel of being inside a Hunter 376 and a GB 36 Classic. The GB will feel like a studio apartment with an enormous amount of room in which to just stand up and move around freely, not to mention the windows in the main saloon which tend to open up the boat even more. A closer comparison would be with a Nordic Tug but even then, with the layout and the windows, the Tug seems much less confining that a sailboat.

Welcome T&JRacing! I am a life long sailor and have owed and been the caretaker for several ocean capable sailboats. First off the SJ24 is a great little boat and quite seaworthy for its size. But with a boat that small, you will fall into every hole in the ocean so it's no surprise that your wife might prefer something more stable. That said, sailboats are inherently more stable than power boats because of the (usually) deep keel and the wind pressure on the sails that tends to dampen the motion. So a larger sailboat, say something in the 35 - 40 foot range just might be an answer.
In my case, my wife and I found that as we age, handling large sails (apex 500 sf) is simply more than we want to handle - or feel safe handling. And we found that much of our "sailing" time was under power because of lack of wind, wind in the wrong direction and so forth. So now it's trawlers for us. We have been chartering a GB42 out of BC. It can be rolly but inside steering when the weather is bad, a light and airy cabin and good creature comforts make it worth while for us.
You are, IMHO, in the best cruising grounds in the world (and I have sailed all over). As others have suggested try a bunch of boats, I suggest even chartering - a bit pricey but less than owning especially if you wife is still uncomfortable .
good luck, please keep us informed.

I got the OP and the missus out to Hope Island and back yesterday on Imagine, we had a great time.
He got some 6 knot wheel time, anchor-assist for me at the helm, thruster demo at docking and a sample of my home brew.

She had a nice flybridge boat ride, brought us all lunch and liked my foldup rocking chair!

Looks like I may have brought a rag-bagger over to the oily side.

I have owned 3 sailboats over 20 years or so and recently made the switch to power. I won't recommend a boat but will share a few of my own experiences/opinions.
Yes you will burn more fuel, but that doesn't mean it's more expensive than sailing. Multiple sails, rigging, etc, are expensive to buy and maintain. It's also often that motoring your sailboat is the best option anyway. Motoring is great to get somewhere faster. What used to take a day, can now take a couple hours. But the journey is not as fun. When you are sailing, the journey truly is the destination. When motoring, there is little to do once you set your course other than keeping a lookout and checking gauges and charts. It's not the same experience, but you can go to more places more quickly. It's all a trade-off, there is no right or wrong answer that suits everyone.

Camano 31' might be a good choice for you. It's a PNW boat, and there is an active Pacific Camano Owners Association you can google for their perspectives on the inside passage. (Hint, a lot of those folks use the Camano for that purpose.)

By the way, I had a San Juan 21' in the late 1970s, early 1980s, raced at Blackbeard Sailing Club near New Bern, NC, where Coral Clark of Clark Boat company facilitated our San Juan 21' one design fleet races. I even did a week long cruise on the SJ21'....like two weeks under the dining room table.

Back to Camano. I bought mine in Bristol RI, and spent 11 days in transit (15 including commissioning before the trip) down the east coast - straight out into the North Atlantic, then inside Long Island, through Hellsgate and the East River in NY City, New Jersey off shore in the Atlantic, up Delaware Bay (roughest day due to strong winds on the stern), down the Chesapeake, through Norfolk Harbor, down the ICW to the Pamlico River, turned up the river to home port in Chocowinity, NC. I was amazed that such an experience had escaped me for my first 67 years....simply wonderful. The Camano was a delight, two men on board - seller the first 4 days, Chesapeake based friend the rest.

There are several articles on the Camano that you can find on line from PassageMaker and Soundings magazines and I recall some from Pacific Northwest Cruising or something like that.

My wife and I are 5'10" and 6'2", and we find the v-berth to be wonderfully comfortable - rides the anchor quietly without the "chine slap" that I've read about for other boats. The Camano is fuel efficient - the Pacific Camano group has stats at a wide range of RPM/speeds, and they are similar to my experience. Range with either the 100 gal tanks or 132 gallon tanks is ample. Plus, the Camano has the speed to get to protected water as the weather deteriorates, which we did twice on the Chesapeake.

Best part: There really are Camano 31s for sale for under $75,000 at times in the PNW.

So, check them out at Yachtworld, the Pacific Camano Owners group, and the East Coast Camano Owners group, find the magazine articles, look at the Camano Program videos made in the early 1990s on youtube. Send me a note if you have questions.

Other boats I considered: Nordic Tug 32, C-Dory 25, Atlas 25 (very cool!), Cape Dory 28. Strength of hull is important in the PNW and in some of the places I go - Aligator-Pungo Canal, and someday the Dismal Swamp Canal. There are other choices. My decision was influenced by articles about how the Camano was built for the PNW, floating logs in the water, very strong hull, keel and skeg protecting the prop, easy handling with large rudder and bow thruster, and ample evidence that people use the Camano for extended cruises in all parts of the US. Low center of gravity makes for good stability for this size boat. Having a flying bridge is far more fun than I expected, and we spend much of our good weather days up there. The most common engine in the Camano 31, Volvo TAMD-41P-A, is often found in commercial boats, and it runs like a charm, literally starts withing one second almost all the time, and truthfully, never more than 2 seconds. I like that!

Good luck in your search!

You guys slay me!

I get it that y'all prefer trawlers over sailboats, otherwise you would be posting on sailnet.com

My comparison of the GB and the Hunter was not for you. It was for the OP.

Everyone who has purchased a powerboat has done so because this type of boat (trawler/motoryacht/express/etc.) suits their needs. This is the same reason that others purchase sailboats. We all have wants/needs/biases/budgets when it comes to boating and that is why we choose the boats we choose.

The OP, on the other hand, loves to sail and it would behoove him to look at more than trawlers. If his wife likes a larger sailboat, then this is a win for satisfying their needs. If not, then they buy the type of boat that does.

Jim

NCheaven said:

Camano 31' might be a good choice for you. It's a PNW boat, and there is an active Pacific Camano Owners Association you can google for their perspectives on the inside passage. (Hint, a lot of those folks use the Camano for that purpose.)

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The Camano 31' remains on my list of possible next boats. There are not many 20-25 year old diesel boats, other than the Camano, that can be found for under 75K.

I do find the holding tank (14 gallons) to be too small small for our needs. If I do get a Camano, I likely would switch out the head for a composting toilet.

If this stupid pandemic ever breaks, we are hoping to start the search for our retirement home and our retirement boat. Cypress Landing has been on our list, of places to visit, for quite a while now!

Jim

Baker said:

Apples to oranges. Compare the Hunter to a Carver. And the GB to a Hinckley. The. You’ll see the space difference. But comparing one of the most voluminous sailboats to one of the least voluminous powerboats isn’t a fair comparison.

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I've been thinking that comparing living spaces among boats could be fairly measured by cubic feet. I'm sure if these spaces were compared by cubic feet, the GB would have more space than the Hunter, esp. engine room space. Incidentally, people rightly concerned about engine room space might compare boats on that basis, as well. And, cubic, not square, feet is more important on boats than, say, houses, etc., for reasons I don't need to state.

I like sailing, but I don't like most sailboats due to the cave-like interior. A motor sailer was the perfect fit for me. The interior is much like a trawler, with great 360 degree vision and an all weather helm station.
The bane of many smaller trawlers without stabilisers is the rolling motion whenever there is a swell on the beam. The sails negate this nicely.

I agree, sailing in heavy weather is more enjoyable than motoring, so if the wife does not like the rolling motion in waves, moving to power may not be the answer. With any of my sailboats, I was never really concerned about waves. A wave coming over the bow in a sailboat can be fun, in a powerboat can be scary. So be sure you know what it is that your wife doesn't like and that the boat you buy will fix that. Also, don't be so sure that you don't want speed in a power boat. Many sailors think 7 knts is really fast, but trust me, it's also great to go 18 knts when you want to.

ddw36 said:

I've been thinking that comparing living spaces among boats could be fairly measured by cubic feet. I'm sure if these spaces were compared by cubic feet, the GB would have more space than the Hunter, esp. engine room space. Incidentally, people rightly concerned about engine room space might compare boats on that basis, as well. And, cubic, not square, feet is more important on boats than, say, houses, etc., for reasons I don't need to state.

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I can appreciate what you are saying about cubic feet.

Interestingly though, engine access is one thing that might actually drive me towards buying a sailboat. Many sailboats above 32' have great engine access, as the diesel engine is usually located under the steps into the saloon.

Here are pics of the engine access on a Hunter 376:, from the saloon:


from the aft stateroom:


So, I would say that the Hunter, with 6'4" headroom in the saloon, actually has much better access to the engine, than any other boat currently on my shortlist, below.

I will admit that I have a pretty eclectic list of boats on my list, mostly power and mostly gas, due to budget constraints (among them a wish to keep the budget under 75K). What is driving the indecision is that we still haven't decided where we want to retire in two years, which in turn, will affect how the boat is used.

LOL, here is my current list that no doubt will be different tomorrow: small trawler (Camano 31'); motoryacht (Carver 350/360 Mariner); aft cabin (Carver 355/356); express cruiser (Searay Sundancer 310/320/340); Hunter 375/376/380 sailboat. All different boats depending on where and how they are used. You can probably tell that I spend waaaaaay too much time on line looking at boats!

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a sailboat over a powerboat, I wouldn't even do that on one of the sailing forums that I frequent. I think it behooves folks, however, to have as much information as possible before they make their own personal decisions.

Jim

Baker said:

IT'S OKAY....DON'T PANIC!!!!!
Now take a deep breath. You are going through the transitional phases of a recovering sailboater. Unlike alcoholics, you can fully recover...but it will take some effort and some time. The one thing you need to say to yourself over and over and over...."It's ok to be comfortable...it's ok to be comfortable...it's ok to be comfortable"!!!!

And if you are ever just sitting there on your trawler and you find everything is just absolutely perfect and you have absolutely no further need to do anything other than enjoy it.....I would suggest getting a hammer and hitting your thumb with it. That way you can experience the misery you used to experience on your sailboat. I know it is not the same, but it helps!!! It's okay to be comfortable!!! Yes there is a bit of guilt, I know. Especially if you are Catholic like me. But it is okay to be comfortable. It is okay to run the generator. It is likely a LOT cheaper to buy, install and maintain a generator than all of the crap related to solar and wind charging systems. And get this....a generator actually WORKS!!! You get stable 120 volt power at 60Hz!!!! It doesn't even need to be sunny outside for it to work!!! I'm serious!!!!...

I think I am going to sell(to recovering sailboaters) a hammer encased in a glass tube..."Break in case of emergency"....so that way if you find yourself just having way too much fun and being way too comfortable, you can break the glass and get the hammer and smash your thumb!!!!

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Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day. Even in stormy weather, sailing can be more comfortable as the boat handles the conditions better. Yes, you may be out in the elements more, but "comfort" means more than just being inside and dry. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but it's not fair to lump sail-boaters into a group of masochists. I should also point out that for a given budget, you can likely buy a bigger sailboat than power boat. Which would be more "comfortable"? A 30' power boat or a 38' sailboat for example?

backinblue said:

Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable...

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Yes, we knew that. Mostly said in jest, but well-mixed with elements of truth, let's just say...

backinblue said:

Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day. Even in stormy weather, sailing can be more comfortable as the boat handles the conditions better. Yes, you may be out in the elements more, but "comfort" means more than just being inside and dry. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but it's not fair to lump sail-boaters into a group of masochists. I should also point out that for a given budget, you can likely buy a bigger sailboat than power boat. Which would be more "comfortable"? A 30' power boat or a 38' sailboat for example?

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What Perter B said!!!! I will say this....sailboaters do have a guilt factor in being comfortable. They try very hard NOT to run the generator....and feel guilty if they do. Look at the hours of a generator on a sailboat....then on a powerboat. Yes you can argue it is the way the boat was set up. But I know MANY powerboaters that start the generator before starting the engines at the dock...and don't shut it down until they get to where they are going.

I'll put it to you another way. I have a very close friend that was taking his Beneteau 47 from the Houston area down to Roatan and was asking to crew. I asked him how many hours were on his generator on a boat he has owned for 10 years. His answer was 150 something hours. I politely declined the trip. IOW, off watch we would be sweating out in the middle of the Gulf with a perfectly good generator and perfectly good AC. And TBH....I could not have gone anyway but you get my point.

We do the Harvest Moon Regatta down here every year(already cancelled this year I think due to CV19). I would motor down in my boat just for the party. And on the way back we were passing a sailboat(in my Prairie 29) and they were huddled in the cockpit in foulies and drizzle and cool weather. My then wife was cooking on the grill. My radio crackles to life with a person on the other end wondering "what in the hell we were cooking?.....I am about to have a mutiny back here!!!".....it was the boat behind us perfectly downwind and smelling our dinner. We arrived powder fresh and already fed. They arrived....wet cold and hungry.

PS...I owned 3 sailboats before switching from sail to steam. I just did it at an early age. Powerboating is more comfortable for what most people use boats for. One can walk erect without have to climb over things and bang all outer extremeties...including the ole noggin!!!!

As I have stated before, boats are really tools and like any tool, suited for the job. Starting around the mid-90's in British Columbia, observed at the Vancouver and Seattle Boat Shows, sail has declined over time, think weather and speed. When I attended the Vancouver Boat show in the mid-80's, the great majority of boats on display were sailboats. The last boat show I attended in 2018, the majority are now power boats.

Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day.


Sitting in an open cockpit in the PNW, coastal BC and Alaska is not the same as sitting in a cockpit in Connecticut, Texas or Florida. Rain in our areas is a real reality.

I watch videos of boat coming and going in Haulover Inlet out of Miami. These boats, most of them are center consul or bow riders. And in the video below you will see how dangerous some of them are with kids in the bow area plowing through the waves, but I digress. These boats make sense in a hot climate with much more sun than I would ever see in two years living along coastal BC. Most of these boats are out for the day or marina bound, or beach bound. These boats don't need much amenities to have fun. And my boat would not make much sense in these waters. The boat is equipped to be on the hook for two weeks without a generator on the hook, holed up in some smaller more isolated anchorages. For me the emphasis is protection from the rain, warmth, enough power to maintain my electrical goodies with an emphasis on solar and a fuel cell.

In fact as I type this, we are having one of those west coast rains that will last through two days most likely (typical at this time of the year).

And stability of a power boat is not universal, flybridge heavy (higher center of gravity) is going to be less stable, rocking and rolling in conditions found here in the Strait of Juan De Fuca, Strait of Georgia, Johnstone Strait, et. al. Winds in these straits are well known. The advantage of a larger express cruiser is that the center of gravity is lower (with no flybride) and traveling at 10 - 12 knots surprisingly can provide a smoother ride in less than pleasant ocean conditions than going 7 or 8 knots.

But due to the room inside, I think a trawler is better for something like the Great Loop, a lot of protected waters. Of course you can travel throughout the loop in an express cruiser like a Backcove, but I'd prefer something a bit larger.

The only comfort in a sailboat in BC is in the summer when the sun is out (but usually very little wind). Then the cockpit is a great place to be, except for the sunburn. But as I type this, no way - today, with all the rain we've had and are going to have - would I want to be in a sailboat cockpit.

Haulover Inlet, Miami: (Notice the kids in front, violent waves, no life preserver)

I'll grant you this rsn48. If I had to go out in a really stinker of a bad weather event, give me a self-righting sail boat, with a nice, heavy, and well-attached keel, anytime..!
However, preferably, and given the choice, I don't go out in that kinda stuff. Just sayin'...