I think I have a windlass solenoid issue

While operating the Lewmar V700 windlass yesterday it would not pay out chain to allow me to adjust the anchor for the final pull through the pulpit slot. Several hours before I had used the pay out (down) function from the switch at the helm to lower the anchor. Later on, I retrieved the anchor to the point where it needed to be rotated to come up through the anchor pulpit slot. I needed to pay out a small amount of chain, but the windlass would not pay out. I went to the bow, and using the footswitch there, heard a solid clunk as the solenoid activated, but the windlass would still not turn in the down direction. I released the wildcat brake using the windlass wrench and manually pulled out a foot of chain with no resistance suggesting that something like a link of chain getting sideways in the chain locker was not the issue. The 3-Amp inline fuse is not visibly blown, and the retrieve mode works from both helm and bow foot switch. I am thinking that even though there is an audible clunk as the solenoid activates when the down switches are pushed, the connection is not being made in there.

Have you tried swearing at it?

Wayfarer said:

Have you tried swearing at it?

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Former US Navy and you have to ask? First thing out of my mouth.

I did get a rather fine photo of it....

If a solenoid is audibly actuating, isn't an internal failure pretty rare? Don't know myself, just seems unlikely. Have you tried shorting the output terminals or measuring the output continuity with the solenoid activated? Have you checked the wiring from the solenoid to the motor?

My below-deck windlass wiring looks a bit like yours, and my last 'failure' was due to a loose connection.

Hope the solution is a simple one, but it's a boat.

Greg.

Measure the voltage at the motor terminal before and after you hit the down switch. If no voltage then there is a wiring failure or a solenoid failure. I did have a solenoid go bad with that windlass, although I don't think I got any noise from the solenoid when I engaged it so it was pretty obviously bad.

3 amps for the fuse protecting the solenoid control wiring! That is surprisingly low. I would have guessed at least 10 amps.

David

I see the large yellow insulator chewed up where the red wire is pressed against it. Loose connection sounds right. I assume the solenoid is easiest to remove from bulkhead and tighten screws. If that doesn't;t work, the windlass may have an internal loose wire. I don't think the switches are the problem. For about $175, it may be a convenient time to replace the solenoid. Your call, how old is it?

Greg, from some research here, it is apparent these things do crap out. Like you, I tend to assume that a solenoid which sounds like it should is actually making contact. I am going to have to removing from the awkward mounting location in the chain locker in order to physically be able to do further diagnosis.

Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.

Rich, I had to replace that solenoid on my Pilot 34. In my case the unit did not click, clunk or thunk. I replaced it with a non-Lewmar brand, but do not recall the make (Imtra, maybe? ). I believe i got it at Defender for considerably less than the Lewmar, and it claims to be waterproof. In my case I was able to remove the solenoid then remove the wires, then wire the new one before installing.

Good luck,

Brett

rgano said:

Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.

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You can pay that much for a marine brand solenoid, or you can go to NAPA for a more generic brand that does exactly the same job, continuous duty, for $25.

rgano said:

Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.

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LOL, it's always a challenge with windlass solenoids and accessibility. You're doing great so far. No need to start part changing (new solenoid) until you've gotten to windlass connections. Another thing you should check is continuity of wires from solenoid to windlass. Ohm meter and long jumper wires.
A very remote possibility is the battery that supplies power to windlass has a bad cell. It'll show good voltage resting but will plummet with a load on. A hydrometer to test the specific gravity of each cell is another way to evaluate the battery. Even a fairly new battery can go bad. MS can have complicated wiring setups that will make you pull your hair out if there's not a dedicated windlass battery. This usually shows on the up function but could happen on down as well.

The arc from making and breaking direct current may have fouled the contact area. I have gutted windlass foot switches and found that arcing is the problem. My foot switches are identical with horn switches so I keep plenty of spares.

In your photo it looks like the orange colored wire is disconnected just passed the black wire tie. Or it may be the angle of view.

Good point about the contacts getting dirty. Touching the wires together will test that theory. But because the solenoid operates on the down switch, it's unlikely dirty switch contacts are the issue in this case.

My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode internally and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.

SoWhat said:

My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.

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The windlass retrieves just fine.

SoWhat said:

My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode internally and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.

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Where are you able to buy a new motor that cheap?
My Lofrans Tigres failed, I took the motor in and it was rewound for $750Cdn. I bought new solenoids at the same store for $25 ea.

Swfla said:

LOL, it's always a challenge with windlass solenoids and accessibility. You're doing great so far. No need to start part changing (new solenoid) until you've gotten to windlass connections. Another thing you should check is continuity of wires from solenoid to windlass. Ohm meter and long jumper wires. A very remote possibility is the battery that supplies power to windlass has a bad cell. It'll show good voltage resting but will plummet with a load on. A hydrometer to test the specific gravity of each cell is another way to evaluate the battery. Even a fairly new battery can go bad. MS can have complicated wiring setups that will make you pull your hair out if there's not a dedicated windlass battery. This usually shows on the up function but could happen on down as well.

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I went out and actually enjoyed sitting on the bow in the sea breeze under the shed, despite the thousand percent humidity. Anyway, I had the solenoid removed from the chain locker bulkhead in a trice, and access is now perfect. All wires and their connections are sound as a dolla.... we'll leave that particular definition for now. Anyway they are as tight as a drunken sailor.
There are only two wires from solenoid to windlass, red and white, and since the windlass retrieves quite well, those wires are good. Connections to the black box solenoid from the helm rocker and the two foot switches are obviously good since the solenoid moves whenever the switches are depressed, retrieving just fine meaning the battery is fine (it is a pair of new Odyssey AGMs - the "start bank"). So I sent my old hydrometer along with the trawler full of LA batts when I sold it. The problem is obviously inside the solenoid box, and I am not about to try to tear it apart to burnish what may well be burned up contacts. I am going to"black box" it and get a new dual action solenoid, the one specified for the windlass by Lewmar (but not FROM Lewmar). It will take about ten minutes to replace old with new. Thanks everybody for the ideas. Then I will report back

Some windlass manufacturers advise against mounting the solenoid in the chain locker. They suggest a dry protected position such as under the v-berth. This may help to avoid future problems.

AusCan said:

Some windlass manufacturers advise against mounting the solenoid in the chain locker. They suggest a dry protected position such as under the v-berth. This may help to avoid future problems.

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I hear ya, but this one came out looking quite well because it is tucked up under a shelf high in the locker. It is a sealed unit. And even if I wanted to execute that fine idea, the nightmare involved in trying to execute it from the rear side of the bulkhead in the cabin of this boat would not soon be forgotten and probably visible to the naked eye.

Just a thought, Since it works in the up mode and not down, Try reversing the up/down wires to see if it will go down and not up. This will tell you if one side of your black box is bad. I had a Yamaha that would trim up but not down and it was the black box.

vacser said:

Just a thought, Since it works in the up mode and not down, Try reversing the up/down wires to see if it will go down and not up. This will tell you if one side of your black box is bad. I had a Yamaha that would trim up but not down and it was the black box.

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A fine idea, and as I looked at the easy-to-swap switch spade connectors, I did indeed give it a passing thought; but there I was up there in the cooling breeze thinking I'd have to go back down to the airless cabin and turn the battery master batt switch back on, test, then then go back down and turn it off again before returning to the bow to replace the wires in their proper position so they would be there when the new solenoid arrives so I would not forget their proper arrangement in two months when the covid-delayed thing arrives and finally to go back down to return the master batt switch back on; and I just didn't must up the will to do it because I was already worn out getting the house ready for replacement of all its windows tomorrow.

Thus endeth the poorest excuse for inaction and the longest sentence in TF history.

Sounds like a great plan Rich. Hope that's all it is. I hate high humidity too.

koliver said:

Where are you able to buy a new motor that cheap?
My Lofrans Tigres failed, I took the motor in and it was rewound for $750Cdn. I bought new solenoids at the same store for $25 ea.

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New motor for Lewmar V700, $159.99 at West. Assume there are cheaper sources. Lewmar solenoids are about the same.

My windlass quit going up. I reversed the positive cables on the motor to enable retrieval. Eventually I replaced the solenoid box. Problem solved. Indeed, switching the power leads will tell you if the solenoid is bad on one side.

vacser said:

Just a thought, Since it works in the up mode and not down, Try reversing the up/down wires to see if it will go down and not up. This will tell you if one side of your black box is bad. I had a Yamaha that would trim up but not down and it was the black box.

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Swfla said:

The windlass retrieves just fine.

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PO stated the windlass will not release line. As several others have mentioned, simplest approach is to bypass solenoid and test windlass.
Reverse the leads to test functionality and rule out any internal windlass problems.

You do not need a solenoid to operate a windlass. It merely allows you to use smaller gauge wire for switches.

The fix update.

The new dual direction solenoid arrived last night, and this morning it took 32 minutes from walking out the back door toward the boat to having the newly installed item tested satisfactorily. Then I tried to get into the old solenoid to see if there was any way I could observe a condition which cause the down mode to malfunction. I was able to separate to the top and bottom plastic casings which remained connected by several wires, and I was able to see that all looked bright and shiny with no evidence of burned contacts nor sticky solenoid sleeves. I saw no way short of near destruction of the casings to get any farther into the unit. I believe that any thought of "just cleaning up the points" of this thing is never going to work out well. This is just one of those items you are better off ordering new.

Glad you're done with that project. How'd the window replacement go?

Swfla said:

Glad you're done with that project. How'd the window replacement go?

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That was probably the easiest repair I have made in many years.

The home total window replacement went swimmingly as my Mom used to say. Crap single pane windows built into the house in 1967 allowed the curtains to blow when the wind did. Some pros from Kansas spent 2.5 days ripping out and replacing 21 of them. Window World contractors. We are quite happy. These guys would shrink from the more complex nature of boat windows I bet.

Anchor windlass solenoid problem

If you have the mechanical and electrical skills, try removing the solenoid and opening it up. You will probably find that the contacts are corroded/eroded. If not totally wasted, try a fine file passed between the contacts to recreate a smooth mating surface. This worked for me.