Newbie - Anyone shed light on "Blue Seas" brand?

Hi all,

First time post here, so please don't shoot me.

I have been searching for information on the Brand "Blue Seas", as I'm looking to buy one of these Taiwanese Trawlers, down here in Melbourne, Australia. I cannot find anything about them anywhere - except for classifieds.
This one is a 1982 Blue Seas 36.

Hopefully someone out there knows something more about this brand and can give me more information, particularly anything I should be aware of from a brand specific problems standpoint.

Thanks guys!

Can't help with the brand, but welcome aboard!


Greg.

Thanks mate.

Deano

Taiwanese built trawlers were sold under many brand names and the brand itself isn't so important. These share a number of characteristics that should be looked for during a survey:

Superstructure built with non marine ply core, resulting in rot and delamination
Core rotting underneath teak decks due to leaks through screw holes
Window frames leaking resulting in stains underneath
Steel fuel tanks rusting

David

Thanks David - exactly what I was after!

I'm new to this and learning every day. All of this information helps.

Take care and stay safe.

David pretty much nailed it.
One other thing to keep in mind is that when considering a boat that old, brand is less important than how the previous owners maintained the vessel and how they have dealt with (or not) the issues that have come up.

bligh said:

David pretty much nailed it.
One other thing to keep in mind is that when considering a boat that old, brand is less important than how the previous owners maintained the vessel and how they have dealt with (or not) the issues that have come up.

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Thanks Bligh. Yep, that's my focus for sure - and more than just cosmetics. I have found that asking sellers key maintenance questions. Only one seller gave me a complete picture of what they did during their ownership (receipts, photos etc.). Most can't answer me quickly and with conviction, so I move on.

DavidM said:

Taiwanese built trawlers were sold under many brand names and the brand itself isn't so important. These share a number of characteristics that should be looked for during a survey:

Superstructure built with non marine ply core, resulting in rot and delamination
Core rotting underneath teak decks due to leaks through screw holes
Window frames leaking resulting in stains underneath
Steel fuel tanks rusting

David

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David, can you advise a quick way for me to get a look under the foredeck to check for rot? The vessel I am checking does have a teak deck and I wanted to know how I could get a look before engaging a surveyor. Is there a way to check without ripping into the headlining the bow berth?

Welcome aboard. As said the individual boat is mote important than the brand when you get into the older boats. Good luck.

DeanOz said:

David, can you advise a quick way for me to get a look under the foredeck to check for rot? The vessel I am checking does have a teak deck and I wanted to know how I could get a look before engaging a surveyor. Is there a way to check without ripping into the headlining the bow berth?

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Well, if it is really bad then the deck will feel soggy when you walk across it. Also really bad core will be soaked and may leak through to the cabin below and show brown stains on the headliner below. Not sure if a moisture meter will be able to read moisture in the core from the top through the teak. If the headliner of the forward cabin can be pushed up to the fiberglass then maybe a moisture meter will give a decent reading from below.

But this is a very common problem and a good surveyor should be able to advise you properly.

David

DavidM said:

Well, if it is really bad then the deck will feel soggy when you walk across it. Also really bad core will be soaked and may leak through to the cabin below and show brown stains on the headliner below. Not sure if a moisture meter will be able to read moisture in the core from the top through the teak. If the headliner of the forward cabin can be pushed up to the fiberglass then maybe a moisture meter will give a decent reading from below.

But this is a very common problem and a good surveyor should be able to advise you properly.

David

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Brilliant. Thanks again for that. The broker says that there is no sponginess, but even though he seems like a nice guy, I won't rely on what he says - after all, he's selling it!.

My city is in a COVID-19 lockdown, so I can't go more that 5k from home until at least mid-September, but after that, I will head out and check the vessel before paying to have a survey done.

Welcome Aboard DeanOz. I found the boat for sale but leave it to you to post it if you wish.
The boat is very similar to the Island Gypsy 36 Europa (with twins) I used own. The cockpit has less depth,you`ll struggle placing a table and 2 chairs there. The single Lehman would be adequate, the stern thruster should help. Like the B/S,the IG main cabin was all galley one side,I rather more seating/less galley(and got it, in my "new" boat which is closely related to the IG).
I`d expect Blue Seas to have typical IG issues, like old teak decks, and window rot, and possibly rot in the eyebrow over the windscreen which is exposed head on to wind and rain. IG windows had internal and external drains which need keeping clear. so the bottom won`t rot.
You should be able to look at tank tops to tell if there is moisture getting through the decks. Check for moisture creeping across into the interior floor. Worst area is the exposed bow, most boats that age have teak removed from the foredeck if not everywhere. Check the aft FB deck too, Notably, I saw no pics of the decks. Check the transom for moisture ingress too.
Hull osmosis is quite possible,unless it has spread above waterline you can`t check until it`s out of the water. The broker should know or be able to find out its osmosis history if it has one.It`s possible to live with osmosis.
Our thoughts go out to you in your lockdown. NSW is on a knife edge with the rise of contagion here, we have some cases we can`t trace which is a worry. Take care,stay safe.
There are usually one or two of these for sale, and they seem to have withstood the test of time quite well. Hope it goes well.

Thanks Bruce. This forum stuff is great! There is a wealth of information out there in the brains-trust.

Firstly, niiiiiice boat you have!

Thank you for that information to help me on my way. Very useful.

I was recently bitten, when I invested over 2k into a survey and slip of a vessel in NSW, after the owner said there was no osmosis that he was aware of and that the boat was slipped in June and antifouled, etc. You guessed it, new osmosis blisters present and evidence of may previous (and poor) osmosis repairs in the past. I found it strange that blisters would appear in a month, as well as white worms and crust on the props and rudder. Very interesting. Anyway, I have now learned: a) don't trust anyone associated with the sale; b) don't put any money into something until I first have a really good look over her first.

I'm looking forward to owning a little piece of floating peace - let's hope it's peaceful owning an old boat

You guys take good care up there too

To add another thing to the good advice above I would suggest you buy an inspection camera. There are some quite modestly priced ones on ebay that plug into a smartphone, allowing you to both look and take pictures.

And one must-do thing with it is inspect under the fuel tanks. Looking at tops of tanks is one thing, but it is far more critical to inspect the bottoms, from the outside. Don't bother with looking inside them. Tanks rust from outside in, and water at corners, bottom edges and where resting on tank supports will tell you a great deal.

Insequent said:

To add another thing to the good advice above I would suggest you buy an inspection camera. There are some quite modestly priced ones on ebay that plug into a smartphone, allowing you to both look and take pictures.

And one must-do thing with it is inspect under the fuel tanks. Looking at tops of tanks is one thing, but it is far more critical to inspect the bottoms, from the outside. Don't bother with looking inside them. Tanks rust from outside in, and water at corners, bottom edges and where resting on tank supports will tell you a great deal.

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Brilliant! Thanks for the info re: the tanks. I must say I was concerned about that.

The one I'm looking at states that the tanks were just cleaned, but I have no idea re: inspection holes, or where to look for rust - now I do. I take it by inspection camera, you mean the cable type with a small diameter camera to look down drain holes and pretty much anywhere that is tight? I will look those up now. Isolation is good for one thing - online shopping, whether that be a new boat or something more manageable.

DeanOz said:

Thanks Bruce. This forum stuff is great! There is a wealth of information out there in the brains-trust...
I was recently bitten, when I invested over 2k into a survey and slip of a vessel in NSW, after the owner said there was no osmosis that he was aware of and that the boat was slipped in June and antifouled, etc. You guessed it, new osmosis blisters present and evidence of may previous (and poor) osmosis repairs in the past. I found it strange that blisters would appear in a month, as well as white worms and crust on the props and rudder. Very interesting. Anyway, I have now learned: a) don't trust anyone associated with the sale; b) don't put any money into something until I first have a really good look over her first.

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We spent 3 years finding this boat, incl a failed contract in Qld after survey. An expensive learning process.
I considered requesting a clause in the purchase agreement, after receiving an assurance of "no osmosis", to the effect that if the boat was shown at survey to have osmosis the deal was voidable at my option(it was anyway) and the seller would reimburse cost of slip, survey, and other expenses incurred for survey. I figured a request would be enough to draw proper disclosure, or seller losing interest, or just maybe agreement, meaning there was probably no osmosis.

BruceK said:

We spent 3 years finding this boat, incl a failed contract in Qld after survey. An expensive learning process.
I considered requesting a clause in the purchase agreement, after receiving an assurance of "no osmosis", to the effect that if the boat was shown at survey to have osmosis the deal was voidable at my option(it was anyway) and the seller would reimburse cost of slip, survey, and other expenses incurred for survey. I figured a request would be enough to draw proper disclosure, or seller losing interest, or just maybe agreement, meaning there was probably no osmosis.

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That will be my intended course for the next time. I have time, so the right boat will come my way I'm sure. And in the meantime, it's nice looking for one and dreaming of spending some time on the water again. Even boating has been cancelled in Port Phillip!

Welcome Dean,

When checking for rotted deck core, bring along a hard rubber mallet. Tap on sections of the deck. Where there is a rotted and/or delaminated core, you'll get a much different, hollow sound. Pay particular attention around deck fittings, the windlass, hatches etc. Anywhere the deck or hull has been cut or drilled into and has not been properly sealed, will be an entry point for water. The water saturated wood turns into porridge if not dealt with quickly.

Good luck on finding one that suits your needs perfectly. They are out there.

AusCan said:

Welcome Dean,

When checking for rotted deck core, bring along a hard rubber mallet. Tap on sections of the deck. Where there is a rotted and/or delaminated core, you'll get a much different, hollow sound. Pay particular attention around deck fittings, the windlass, hatches etc. Anywhere the deck or hull has been cut or drilled into and has not been properly sealed, will be an entry point for water. The water saturated wood turns into porridge if not dealt with quickly.

Good luck on finding one that suits your needs perfectly. They are out there.

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Cheers! Will do. Would that work on a teak deck? i.e would that be drummy too?

DeanOz said:

I take it by inspection camera, you mean the cable type with a small diameter camera to look down drain holes and pretty much anywhere that is tight? I will look those up now.

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Yes, those are the ones. I think a 1 m cable stalk is plenty long enough.

For the teaks deck, rubber hammer sounding is what surveyors will do. Just go all over, side decks etc and see if any places have a quite different sound. If bad then you might notice springiness by sort of lunging forward with weight on just one foot.

Insequent said:

Yes, those are the ones. I think a 1 m cable stalk is plenty long enough.

For the teaks deck, rubber hammer sounding is what surveyors will do. Just go all over, side decks etc and see if any places have a quite different sound. If bad then you might notice springiness by sort of lunging forward with weight on just one foot.

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Again - thank you. Great advice. I was looking at the 3.5M ones, but if you think the 1M will do, that's what I will go for. Cheers

DeanOz said:

Cheers! Will do. Would that work on a teak deck? i.e would that be drummy too?

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It would work on a teak deck. You may hear a different drum tone depending if all is solid, or if the teak bond is loose, or if the core is rotted.

DeanOz said:

... I have time, so the right boat will come my way I'm sure. And in the meantime, it's nice looking for one and dreaming of spending some time on the water again. Even boating has been cancelled in Port Phillip!

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NSW had "no recreational boating" at one time. Sailing and fishing were permitted as "exercise" but parking on a mooring drinking beer with one unattended fishing rod line in the water wasn`t ok. Port Phillip doesn`t look all that accommodating for boating, but I`ve only been on it on a cruise ship(those were the days...sigh).
If you look at the boatsonline Blue Seas listings in Qld. I think one has foredeck teak removed, another maybe all removed. Yours does have teak pics,it looks like screwed on instead of glued only as now, looks surprisingly ok, in pics at least. Of course none of us are allowed into Queensland at present.

AusCan said:

It would work on a teak deck. You may hear a different drum tone depending if all is solid, or if the teak bond is loose, or if the core is rotted.

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Thanks - I can't wait to see the eyes on the broker when I come aboard with a rubber mallet in my hand!

BruceK said:

NSW had "no recreational boating" at one time. Sailing and fishing were permitted as "exercise" but parking on a mooring drinking beer with one unattended fishing rod line in the water wasn`t ok. Port Phillip doesn`t look all that accommodating for boating, but I`ve only been on it on a cruise ship(those were the days...sigh).
If you look at the boatsonline Blue Seas listings in Qld. I think one has foredeck teak removed, another maybe all removed. Yours does have teak pics,it looks like screwed on instead of glued only as now, looks surprisingly ok, in pics at least. Of course none of us are allowed into Queensland at present.

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Yes, we don't have the beautiful waterways of Sydney and Pittwater, but you have to admit, a day on the water anywhere is better than not having one at all.

Yes, I have looked at the other one in QLD online. The broker here is at Lakes Entrance and he advised that the deck isn't springy at all. Due to the wide FB, the side decks will probably be in better condition than the foredeck. My concerns with the screwed down deck is that the screws may well have breached the ply of the deck itself, which from all my reading, is common and not the best re: water ingress. As posted by Insequent, the idea of taking an insertion camera with me certainly does appeal if I can get to see any potential rot from within the vessel. I know I'm looking at old boats, but budget dictates that I can't go out and get a new one. That doesn't mean that I can't be careful with what I get. I know it won't be perfect, but I wouldn't mind getting closer to perfect than scuttle-worthy. I was looking online at a 2003 Mainship 390 over in WA, but that now has been sold.

I just have to keep looking - but everything I have learned today helps get a better understanding of what I can expect to find.

Cheers

The "real deck" under the teak strips usually consists of a "sandwich", a top and bottom layer of fibreglass with some kind of wood in between. It can be ply, or teak offcuts glued inbetween and above and below. (A 2008 trawler I know had loose teak blocks packed in with no glue at all, that deck failed, a huge foredeck repair job).
The screws should go into the wood, but if they penetrate the bottom layer of the sandwich water can run down a failing screw right through. Instead of just rotting the wood. My 1981 IG had a surprising foam sandwich which doesn`t rot.

BruceK said:

The "real deck" under the teak strips usually consists of a "sandwich", a top and bottom layer of fibreglass with some kind of wood in between. It can be ply, or teak offcuts glued inbetween and above and below. (A 2008 trawler I know had loose teak blocks packed in with no glue at all, that deck failed, a huge foredeck repair job).
The screws should go into the wood, but if they penetrate the bottom layer of the sandwich water can run down a failing screw right through. Instead of just rotting the wood. My 1981 IG had a surprising foam sandwich which doesn`t rot.

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Mmmm, that's why I wanted to know more about the brand Blue Seas, to see if anyone knew of the construction method, to find whether it was a foam, balsa, or other type of core. I want to avoid a huge issue like that if I can. The engine has a genuine 800hrs too, which isn't ideal I have heard. An engine that old should have been run more. The vessel history is known from the 80's, so it is believed those hours are legit. I will see what the hull's like and then take some oil samples for analysis.

Hi, and welcome aboard Dean, from yet another fellow Aussie. (That is unless it serves my purpose better to plead insanity or re-claim my NZ heritage anyway).

As the others have already pointed out the sorts of issues to consider with that vessel, let me just say that before I bought our Clipper 34, (now sold) which is sort of like the smaller brother of the Blue Seas 36, the latter was my dream boat. They look great, have good volume, are really seaworthy, and the separate second stateroom, usually with bunks if I remember correctly, is perfect for a family.

So, as long as the vessel passes the muster - remembering no boat is perfect - not even a new one - the Blue Seas 36 is an excellent choice. By the way, the odd area of soggy or soft deck can be repaired, so if that's the only issue it need not be a deal-breaker, but a reason for a price reduction, maybe..? See my comments re this same issue here...
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-foredeck-cost-52483.html#post909913#4 Best of luck.

Hi Deanoz and welcome,
We looked at a blue Seas before buying our boat - huge interior but the "back verandah" was pretty skinny plus the ladder up to the fly bridge was vertical which was off putting for us., esp if carrying a small dog (or a drink)

Re decks - boats of this age can be a worry. Decks are built with a top and bottom layer of glass, the top layer is the thickest with layer in the middle (the core) of either foam, balsa, or small blocks of ply. The teak on top is mostly decorative but unfortunately it was screwed down with the screws penetrating the top layer of glass. Over the years either through these screw holes or other deck penetrations water has worked its way into the core and, as someone else has said, turned the wooden core to mush. Thus the sponginess. Is it fixeable......yes.......teak gets ripped off (and destroyed in the process) cut the top layer of glass out, scoop out the mushy core, replace, reglass (often using the original piece if you are lucky) add a couple of layers of glass to cover the loss of strength from the teak and paint OR re do the teak, but only if you want to extend the mortgage on your house, DYI if you are handy, Here ends the lesson.

Good luck

Peter B said:

Hi, and welcome aboard Dean, from yet another fellow Aussie. (That is unless it serves my purpose better to plead insanity or re-claim my NZ heritage anyway).

As the others have already pointed out the sorts of issues to consider with that vessel, let me just say that before I bought our Clipper 34, (now sold) which is sort of like the smaller brother of the Blue Seas 36, the latter was my dream boat. They look great, have good volume, are really seaworthy, and the separate second stateroom, usually with bunks if I remember correctly, is perfect for a family.

So, as long as the vessel passes the muster - remembering no boat is perfect - not even a new one - the Blue Seas 36 is an excellent choice. By the way, the odd area of soggy or soft deck can be repaired, so if that's the only issue it need not be a deal-breaker, but a reason for a price reduction, maybe..? See my comments re this same issue here...
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-foredeck-cost-52483.html#post909913#4 Best of luck.

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Thanks for that Pete,
I was looking at something a bit bigger (40-42), but to be honest, my wife isn't a big fan of boats (there are silver linings everywhere in this world ) so it will mainly just be me a a couple of guests from time to time. It's good to hear from someone who was considering one too. I will be looking at a 1979 Clipper 34 MkII as well. In fact, I will looking at everything I can, mainly to get a better idea of what I like. That said, I do like the look of the 36 - perhaps with the addition of a bow thruster. It has a stern thruster, but I can't work out why you would have that with no bow thruster, but I did say at the top of this thread that I am a newbie.