Fog horn, NOT

Comodave said:

Have you ever had the need to blow your loud horn for 24 hours straight every 2 minutes due to running in fog? That is where a hailer with auto signals comes in handy. I didn’t have a programmed horn at the time.

Click to expand...

My air horn is run by the FogMate. Since going to sea the first time in 1965, I have been in some fog. Try it when the steam fog horn is activated by a big lever over the helmsman's head and takes about 20 pounds to pull down. I never was in a 24-hour fog in all those years because at some point we progressed out of even if for just a few hours.

Fog doesn’t stop commercial fishing of course. Old days there used to be a boat go down due to a collision on regular occasion. Horns blasting and all. Damn fog.

I’ve got the icom 506 as well. Last time I was in thick fog, I used the fog setting. I do worry that it is not as loud as my horn. Funny thing is the local ferry boats have the deck crews posted on the car deck and they communicate to each other and their pilot using handheld vhf radios. So my icom scanning channels would lock on to their transmissions and I would hear “foghorn off the port bow” and such. After a couple episodes I noted that I’d hear the deck crew call out a moment after my fog horn sounded. Some amusing feedback that my foghorn was not just an ornament that day.

This is an occasion where size does count,


https://www.kahlenberg.com/products/marine-signaling/commercial-military-air-horns.html

Comodave said:

Have you ever had the need to blow your loud horn for 24 hours straight every 2 minutes due to running in fog? That is where a hailer with auto signals comes in handy. I didn’t have a programmed horn at the time.

Click to expand...

Not 24 hrs but it did seem endless. The owner was too cheap to pay for an automated system, we were a crew of 2 working 24 x 7 in the days before GPS & plotters so on watch alone. Sound the horn, check the radar, at 6 min intervals plot on the chart. No one is likely to loose situational awareness when working under those conditions.

ghost said:

I’ve got the icom 506 as well. Last time I was in thick fog, I used the fog setting. I do worry that it is not as loud as my horn. Funny thing is the local ferry boats have the deck crews posted on the car deck and they communicate to each other and their pilot using handheld vhf radios. So my icom scanning channels would lock on to their transmissions and I would hear “foghorn off the port bow” and such. After a couple episodes I noted that I’d hear the deck crew call out a moment after my fog horn sounded. Some amusing feedback that my foghorn was not just an ornament that day.

Click to expand...

I've been the bow watch on a car ferry. Capt said it's because bow watch is in a better position to hear. It sure seemed to be true. I could hear things before the wheel house crew did. Maybe it was because I was just a young pup and my hearing was still good.

In addition to the fog horn my AIS is very helpful

John R M said:

Not so in Canada. Anyone who operates a boat with any kind of motor is required to have a Pleasure Craft Operator Card (that you receive after passing a boating safety course), or other suitable proof of competency.

Click to expand...

My ten yr. old nephew passed that test at the Toronto Boat show a couple of years ago. He had no boating experience and no study materials.

wow

boatpoker said:

My ten yr. old nephew passed that test at the Toronto Boat show a couple of years ago. He had no boating experience and no study materials.

Click to expand...

Passing a written test does not mean a heck of a lot.

backinblue said:

Passing a written test does not mean a heck of a lot.

Click to expand...

Yup, especially when it is as elementary as ours.

Well, it just says most boaters are less capable than a ten year old.

Comodave said:

Yup, you only have to have money...

Click to expand...

John R M said:

Not so in Canada. Anyone who operates a boat with any kind of motor is required to have a Pleasure Craft Operator Card (that you receive after passing a boating safety course), or other suitable proof of competency.

Click to expand...

IMHO Comodave's comment is true under the maple leaf flag and I respectfully submit that John R M is placing too much faith in the PCOC.

Although the PCOC uses the phrase "proof of competency", the focus is on boating safety. Seamanship and application of the COLREGS, not so much. Proceeding at 15 kts in fog is extremely poor seamanship and three short blasts as a fog signal is just plain COLREGS-wrong.

"You can get the card by taking a boating safety course in-person or online, and passing the test at the end of the course." (my emphasis)

Furthermore, enforcement ranges between lax and non-existent. Perhaps if boat brokers were required to record details of the proposed operator's PCOC or if marine insurance providers required those details...?

The PCOC is definitely not the marine equivalent of a driver's licence, despite how it is described here... https://aceboater.com/en/safe-boating-course-review

For those who are interested...
https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-transportation/marine-safety/operator-card-pcoc-faq#p

There is a case to be made that online classes have been detrimental to boating safety. We used to teach a 12 lesson 2 hour per night in person Boating Safety class. The students were taught way more than what is covered in the online classes. They could ask questions from mostly very experienced instructors. Now they just take a quick test online and are convinced that they are knowledgeable boaters. The thinking is that an online class and test are better than nothing but the online classes killed the in person classes that actually did make a much more knowledgeable boater.

Online courses for boating safety are all a joke and a money grab. THEY ARE WORTHLESS AND WORSE THAN NOTHING because some people may actually think they are now knowledgeable to boat safely. The lack of value in online learning has come to the fore in this covid crisis as schools and universities are switching to "distance learning." Some colleges are offering a pittance of a discount on tuition because they are fully aware of the lack of quality in this type education. Students are getting wise and suing for greater percentages of refunds, and some are willing to risk being at in-person classes rather than this online BS. I'd rather have my kid just perform some useful function totally outside of the "learning environment" for a year or so until classes resume than to accept a diploma from a high school doing online classes.

I've taken both the online and in person courses (2 different states). And honestly, I'd say they were both worthless. Both spent way too much time blabbing about trailering and launch ramp safety (should be a separate course for trailered boats). Plenty of stuff about MSDs and such too. And both didn't go nearly deep enough into COLREGS or a lot of other useful / important stuff like mentioning that "no wake speed" is different for different boats, and a whole lot of other information that would make people better boaters.

For the online learning thing in general, how well it works (assuming a well planned and well structured online class) seems to depend on what the class is teaching and also the students. Some people do well in that kind of environment, others just don't and either don't learn much, or don't have the motivation to do the work, etc.

GBnewbie said:

In addition to the fog horn my AIS is very helpful

Click to expand...

Yes, AIS has value and tell you when someone is close, especially big stuff... but it does have a lag and probably not the best when you get close. That's where radar shines.


I could also argue for bright lights, like spreader lights that may be visible for a hundred+ feet or so.



For the most part, I think most of use prefer not to operate in fog, but it happens. I've had my share.


Question: I've been told the FLIR does have some advantages in fog (infrared type). Certainly not long distance, but a few hundred feet would be great. Any truth to this? Don't have one of those.... yet.

Man, who would have guessed that a simple statement would generate so much discussion. My intention was to merely mention that Canada has a requirement for a PCOC, that "you only have to have money" wasn't good enough. Next time I'll just shut up.

John R M said:

Man, who would have guessed that a simple statement would generate so much discussion. My intention was to merely mention that Canada has a requirement for a PCOC, that "you only have to have money" wasn't good enough. Next time I'll just shut up.

Click to expand...

Posting is not like raising your own child...it's like hatching a wild bird and seeing it fly wherever it wants.


Some times you get some good answers, you almost always get some bad answers and invariably you get answers to questions you never have dreamed of.

psneeld said:

and invariably you get answers to questions you never have dreamed of.

Click to expand...

That's one of the things I like about this forum. I get answers for problems which I didn't even know I had. I read a lot of these threads simply because I don't know what I don't know in some of these areas!

ScottC said:

That's one of the things I like about this forum. I get answers for problems which I didn't even know I had. I read a lot of these threads simply because I don't know what I don't know in some of these areas!

Click to expand...

True...but it is nice when the new topic goes to another better titled thread and someone can answer the OP's question without it being lost in the clutter.

I think the PCOC is a good start, if the course is done with the intent of learning something, instead of just passing the test. My son did the course when he was 12 honestly and learned a fair amount. He also got his Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Certificate, and was able to peddle both into a great summer job for years as a assistant wharfinger.

Hopefully the PCOC it will ramp up proficiency over time, and give some teeth to enforcement and further legislation. I believe that it is the first step in a gradual transformation to outright licensing.

I recall the howls of indignation when people had to take it. Imagine if it was harder to get?

Northern Spy said:

I think the PCOC is a good start, if the course is done with the intent of learning something, instead of just passing the test. ...
Hopefully the PCOC it will ramp up proficiency over time, and give some teeth to enforcement and further legislation. I believe that it is the first step in a gradual transformation to outright licensing.
?

Click to expand...

I hope you're right. Increases in recreational marine traffic are likely to be a motivator. There were over a hundred boats on buoys and at anchor in Montague Harbour this past weekend. There would probably have been more if the border was open.

On the Queen Mary II, they used one of the two horns off the QM1, since two was overkill. On a passage to London, 5 of 8 days were fogged out so bad you couldn't see down to the waterline.

If you spend $100 and dedicate 30 minutes of your time to install this little box connected to your horn control, you'll solve your problems with non-compliance.

Mine is connected to my Kalenberg horns (Thanks, TT!). It's a real game changer for me when operating in the fog.

FogMate

FlyWright said:

If you spend $100 and dedicate 30 minutes of your time to install this little box connected to your horn control, you'll solve your problems with non-compliance.

Mine is connected to my Kalenberg horns (Thanks, TT!). It's a real game changer for me when operating in the fog.

FogMate

Click to expand...

Does it work with and electric horn?

backinblue said:

Does it work with and electric horn?

Click to expand...

Yup. Works fine with my electric horn. As long as there's a way to electrically trigger your horn (electric horn, solenoid for an air horn, etc.), it'll work.

Trying to find a supplier in Canada.
Exchange rate and cross-border shipping are murder.

rslifkin said:

Yup. Works fine with my electric horn. As long as there's a way to electrically trigger your horn (electric horn, solenoid for an air horn, etc.), it'll work.

Click to expand...

So I assume there is a switch to put it into fog mode?

backinblue said:

So I assume there is a switch to put it into fog mode?

Click to expand...

If you look through the manual for it, there are a few ways to wire it. I used the most basic wiring for mine. So if you flip the nav lights on and give a quick toot within 3 seconds, it'll start a fog pattern. When you turn the nav lights off, it'll stop. If you don't hit the horn within 3 seconds of turning on the nav lights, then it does nothing.

rslifkin said:

If you look through the manual for it, there are a few ways to wire it. I used the most basic wiring for mine. So if you flip the nav lights on and give a quick toot within 3 seconds, it'll start a fog pattern. When you turn the nav lights off, it'll stop. If you don't hit the horn within 3 seconds of turning on the nav lights, then it does nothing.

Click to expand...

The other option (what I did) is to wire it to a switch. In my case, it's a SPDT switch; up for making way in fog, down for not making way. In a sailboat you could do steaming and sailing, or add even more switches. The manual also tells how you can select different signals based on the number of times you toggle a switch, as above. Someone put a lot of thought into this product!

Overall, it was one of the best $100 I've ever spent on a boat. When I sold my last boat, the FogMate site was down and I thought they'd gone out of business, so I de-installed it to bring to my current boat.