Starting the Journey

Psquared said:

yeah seems like the 3607 can be had from the mid teens up to the mid 30s'40's I've been trying to do more and more research on them and it seems like it was offered as a "budget" yacht that has had it fair share of problems from issue with the appliances to some of the motor mounting. Once we go down to florida it wont be coming back, we plan on moving down to the cape coral/ ft myers area and once we leave these grey skies there is no coming back! lol

Thanks

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I think you pegged the Carver well. I owned the prototype for the 32' aft cabin boat--one of several with Diesel engines. I also owned a 41' aft cabin MY, which had a whale of a lot more room.

Some of the problems which the Carver may have will be wiring, engines which are near end of life span, transmissions which may need rebuilding, fuel tanks which are nearing 40 years old--and a potential very explosive hazard. There will be leaks around windows--that is almost guaranteed in this vintage boat. Not all that hard to fix, but time consuming. In the mean while live with the mold and dips onto the bunk...There may be soft decks, and you really don't want to go there!

We also have boated with dogs for over 45 years (Including crossing oceans). It is very doable. But it does complicate the issues a little bit.

I agree with those who think that a cheap boat, will be very expensive by the time you are through. Then there is the issue of resale when you decide you don't like boating or want to "trade up".

We have lived aboard about 13 1/2 years total, so know a little about what is required. Over 8 years of that was full time cruising, and much at anchor. You have to have very reliable systems.

Now as to how you might accomplish what you want. I really believe that living on a mooring to start with is not a good idea. AC in Florida is one of the issues. We never had AC on our sailboats and spent cumulative time of over 18 months in the Caribbean tropics. But there was always a breeze blowing thru the hatches. Something called a "Wind scoop" which passively funnels air into the cabin.. Once we got to FL--we realized that in most marinas there is little wind--and more than fair share of rain at night...so the AC became essential. That could be as little as a window unit ducted with plywood thru a hatch, and a small generator running on the swim step some distance from sleeping quarters, with several CO detectors on.

There is no way you are going to run AC off solar power, even with a 5000 watt AC (and I have run that type off a bank of golf cart batteries). It can work for one small combined and well insulated space on a boat... there are also dedicated 12 volt AC units, which can cool small spaces. It is not practical to run generator full time for AC on small boats.

A large dinghy with a fairly small boat--done that too...It is much easier to have An inflatable with low hp--we have an air floor inflatable, with a Torqeedo electric Motor currently--it can be solar charged: no gas to worry about, goes plenty fast to get to shore. Another option is an aluminum skiff--10 to 12 feet long--lots of interior space, and cargo capacity--again a small or electric motor. Easier to tow or stow than a CC or whaler etc.

Living aboard and anchoring or mooring out has its issues. A composting toilet will get by the "holding tank" issue and pump outs. I feel the most efficient refrigeration/freezer is using an eutectic holding plate system with excellent insulation. Then the compressor only has to be run twice a day for about an hour.
Living aboard anchoring out full time is a hot topic still in Florida (where I live).

If you want to live in Fl, come on down, buy and flip some houses, buy a nice boat to park in front of that waterfront home, and re-do it here.

You asked about "Standards"--ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) has standards for boats--sort of like "codes" for buildings. You should learn these before starting any work on the boat. Also Nigel Calder has several good books on mechanical and electrical issues which will follow ABYC standards. Buy the book and read it.

You should spend time reading books and forums. No one is going to "Validate" your plan as it is now. There are way too many loose ends, and not practical to do items.

Regards

Psquared said:

Hi,



We are currently a small family looking at a possible liveaboard situation. We are both in our mid 20's and looking for a lifestyle change. We love to travel and spend about a month + every year in Florida, we love the water and everything to do with the beach. We recently went to cape coral/ft myers to look at investment homes and spent some time looking at where we would live if we decided to liveaboard. We seem to have settle on the mooring field in ft myers.



Our next step is to test out living aboard, we are currently in central ohio but all the charters for 2+ nights seem crazy expensive, over $3000.00 for 3 nights? If you have any suggestions on a great lake charter let us know.



My boating experience has always been with smaller fishing boats, we are currently looking at a smaller fixer upper trawler. I would like to be 40' + but after lots of research it seems we should go with the smallest boat we can deal with before moving up to a huge boat. Good or bad idea? My only concern with upgrading in the future is having a hard time selling the boat, it seems like right now it is a buyers market.



I personally flip homes, am a welder by trade and do 99% of the work on our own cars. Boats are new to me but I do think after some more reading/hands on experience I will be able to handle a large amount of the issues that come up.



Our plan is to find a boat, fix it up near sandusky/Cleveland and take it down to florida.



List of questions:

#1
We are "currently" planning on spending all our time in florida/Bahamas, what does everyone do during hurricane season? I assume you would try to avoid this as much as possible but what do you do if your "stuck" on your boat.

#2

we are only looking at non wooden boats, any years/manufactuers to stay away from? Seems like a Carver 3607 is what we have been looking at a lot. Good or bad choice? We need a minimum of 2 rooms/berths. We are tall people and like our own space, not to mention the smaller of the two would turn into an office. Guest can sleep on a pull out,

#3

Any suggestions on marinas around sandusky/cleveland that would allow us to pull the boat out and do work in there yard?

#4

what are we missing?

We have figured out our income stream as we are not retired so working is a must for the time being. We are looking into classes/trying to find a charter to test the waters out. We are trying to get out and touch/see as many boats as we can. I live a pretty minimalist life style the only thing I wont be able to get rid of are all the tools needed for flipping/maintaining our properties. solution to this is a storage locker.



Other then this I feel like there is a lot of info that I am missing out on, any suggestions on what to read?



Also if anyone in the ohio area would need a hand with anything please let me know I would gladly lend a helping hand in exchange for experience.



-P

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We are looking at the same thing. We went on AB&B for a trip to Florida a month ago. We stayed on a Older 50 ft Hatteras in Ft. Lauderdale. Great time. Do some checking and go for it.
was $180 a night. We did the week.

A neighbor in my marina in Beaufort, SC has a great Albin 43 he wants to sell. He's already moved to land and works 7 days a week, so he hasn't had time to do anything about listing it. Has great, low hours twin Ford Lehman 120s. Teak deck were removed in the early 90s. Solid hull, solid decks and nice, clean engine room. It does need cosmetics but is by no means a project.

He has a recent survey that valued it at $48k but I know he's going to start with a low to mid $30s asking price.

If you want to email me at bessandbill at yahoo I can put you in touch with him.

Okay, here’s a reality check on the situation, everything is possible, it’s just a matter of finding the path forward. There always is one, but they constantly change. The only way you’ll find what is available is by jumping in.

You say “Family” and I say family boats start at 50’ and a 50’ boat is as easy to drive as a 25’ boat, and really 240’ isn’t more difficult, the driving doesn’t really change, just the amount of damage you can do. A weekend’s worth of professional training gets pretty much everyone up to speed.

Can you live a family on less than 50’? Yes, however it is camping life with little privacy available.

To the OP. Costs to slip, insure, electricity for AC, and do basic maintenance (e.g. bottom cleaning, haul every 2 years, etc ) on a 40 footer is the same whether purchase price is $20k or $200k. Figure $15k-$20k, per year on average. Burn rate on boats is pretty high regardless. Focus less on purchase price and more on ownership cost. Chances are that if there's a fly in the ointment of your plan, it's in ownership costs, not purchase costs, and not operating costs.

Peter

Jmk2000: We bought a boat six years ago with the intention of selling our dirt house and becoming full time live aboards. We did so four years ago and have not regretted it at all. However, I will take the liberty of disabusing you of the idea that moving aboard a boat will simplify your life. It will not. You will be trading one set of challenges for a different set. I would even argue that life becomes more complicated. And, if you are not mechanically inclined, including having at least a rudimentary understanding of AC and DC electricity, be prepared to open your wallet. We live aboard a DeFever 44 which is about the right size for us but we recently met a couple who has been on a 34-footer for 35 years. Our plan is to cruise the boat for 2 - 4 more years before buying into dirt again.

Jmk2000 said:

Psquared good luck in your hunt. I have been dreaming of simplifying life and moving aboard a boat when I retire from the military. It sounds like you have a good plan. Best of luck in your hunt for a new floating home and keep us posted!

I just turned 40 and my youngest is in high school. Nothing in the cards for me as far as a livaboard until she’s out of the house. I’ll live vicariously through y’all till then. Cheers!!

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I totally understand that it will be different. I’ve served over 18 years as a marine mechanic in the Coast Guard. I’m not going into this naïvely just want to explore and live smaller. With my military experience I feel I could save a lot of money by being able to work in just about every system the boat has.

With your mechanical skills you will save a boatload of money. I hope I did not offend you but we have seen more than a few starry-eyed folks who do not at all understand the complexity of boat ownership, mainly the sometimes heavy costs of maintenance. We just had our bi-annual bottom job, $4,100, work that I must have done cuz we live on the boat. But, a more simple life, not for us anyway but we are quite happy with our life on the boat. It sounds as if you will be also. Good luck.

Jmk2000 said:

I totally understand that it will be different. I’ve served over 18 years as a marine mechanic in the Coast Guard. I’m not going into this naïvely just want to explore and live smaller. With my military experience I feel I could save a lot of money by being able to work in just about every system the boat has.

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No offense taken at all

Psquared said:

I really don't know why I'm getting **** on for saying 3000 for two nights of a charter seemed expensive.....!

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Welcome to the Trawler Forum! Ha ha!

Hang in there with us. Some of us are crotchety, some under a lot of stress running businesses in a pandemic, some misinterpret things, some won’t mesh with your style. But this is a very knowledgeable group. You will figure out who to pay attention to for specific things. Everyone has strong points. Try to look past the tone of some of the responses you get and focus on the sound advice buried inside it.

And keep asking questions!

I'm so sorry about all the dream crushers. Ignore them.
Why os it when someone asks something specific some people feel the need to to chime in with out even considering the original question?
He didn't ask if he should buy a boat or an RV!
Answer the man's questions or just keep it to yourself.

Some one her gave great advice that I have clung to. If you but the boat that the current owner poured his heart,soul, and pocketbook into you will save yourself a fortune. (Or something like that) fixer upper boats dont pan out financially. If you work a trade that earns good money, why waste your time fixing up a boat that you don’t get paid for. Just buy a good boat to live on and then you will have more free time to work and enjoy your boat. . And live at a dock if you can-hauling groceries from your truck to your dinghy then onto the boat and vice versa for your trash is another waste of time. Plus the AC thing in Florida.

In real estate they say “Location, location, location” and since you flip houses you must understand that.

In my head, mainly learned from a few local boating friends, and a lot of smarter-than-I people right here on TF, it’s “Condition, condition, condition!”

I’m on my fourth boat, now looking for my fifth. This last one was a 2006 express cruiser. It was in decent condition when I got it, but I’ve had to replace a lot. More than I thought. But it was worth it to me. Just sold to a somewhat clueless couple who got a decent boat at a decent price that’s ready to go. As well as I maintained it, there is a $5000 monster lurking somewhere waiting to be fed in every boat.

Increase the size or age, multiply that $5k by 2,3,4?

We are actively looking. Yesterday looked at what online appeared to be an overlooked gem- 1989, 39 foot convertible, a good brand. Broker said it needed 20k of TLC.

I started digging around and there were no less than 6 cut dangling wires. 4 through hulls attached to nothing on the inside. Rusty tools seemingly lost in every bilge compartment. The big Cat 3208’s looked to be leaking a lot of stuff. Exploded battery tops. Strainer intakes on the hull painted shut with bottom paint.

This was a 4 minute look with an iPhone flashlight, not even getting down below amongst the mechanicals.

My I know nothing estimate is that if I got this formerly Well built Yacht for $50k (it’s probably worth that) I’d have to put in at least another $50k to even leave the dock. And another $25k to make it even somewhat safe.

We are ultimately looking for something newer, but you have to look and listen to figure out what you are ready to sign up for. We’ve decided early that we are not into a project. But any boat will be a project. Even the 2000-2009 stuff I’d ultimately like to buy? Planning $10k of mad money within the first two years.

You really have to love this stuff. We do. You may too. I say it’s all worth it!

The people here are great. My advice? LISTEN!

Is the boat life for us?

An inexpensive way to go about seeing if this might be the life for you would be to rent an Airbnb boat that is anchored out. There are many such boats in the Keys (much cheaper than a hotel.) the owner/manager will run you out in a dingy. I’m doing the Great Loop, and love living on the boat and anchoring out. But, it would be a major inconvenience to be anchored out while holding down a job.

Live the dream. Buy the boat. If you listen to some you'd never try anything.
"Go, confront the problem. Fight! Win!"
Edna Mode

Hey Psquared, just checking in on ya. Have you narrowed your search at all to any particular trawlers?

I lived in the Keys for 12 years and now live in Fort Myers. Wife and I much prefer Fort Myers. But, if we were in your shoes, would seriously consider the Keys. Lots of good paying jobs for GOOD welders with a strong work ethic.

Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to our little arrogant millennial. He hasn't posted since July 27, maybe he bought his boat and is living the good life and ignoring us for being so mean to him.

Maybe he caught a dose of reality and decided to work for a few more years.

Maybe he just faded away,

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to our little arrogant millennial. He hasn't posted since July 27, maybe he bought his boat and is living the good life and ignoring us for being so mean to him.

Maybe he caught a dose of reality and decided to work for a few more years.

Maybe he just faded away,

pete

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They way you and wifeb treated him i would have left and never come back too.

Pete Meisinger said:

Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to our little arrogant millennial. He hasn't posted since July 27, maybe he bought his boat and is living the good life and ignoring us for being so mean to him.

Maybe he caught a dose of reality and decided to work for a few more years.

Maybe he just faded away,

pete

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Agreed Pmcsmurf, who cares if the guy thinks he can take on everything. I wouldn’t call it arrogance. Y’all’s RUDE reaction wasn’t necessary. The guy came for advice. Either give it or stay out

I reared this thread. I didn't find the OPs attitude difficult. He got judgment. I'd be a bit tweaked too. When I was young, I wouldn't have taken well to the feedback he received. Guessing few others would either.

On the other hand,

KnotYet said:

Anyway, for a slightly different viewpoint:

When I was 26 I bought a boat for about $20k and moved aboard.
It was a sailboat and I was single but those are just details (and I was seldom alone).

A year and 7 months later I sailed that boat from L.A. to Hawaii. The time of my life!
I only mention all this because I am grateful for the encouragement I got at the time.

Do not hesitate to go ahead with whatever your plan is.
I have never regretted a single minute of it. I hope someday you can say the same.

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Agree with knot yet. This forum collectively is pretty hard on dreamers. I recently watched a Sailing Uma YouTube. They started with a 45 year old Pearson 36 with a trashed engine and a loose keel that they bought for $3k. They had no idea how to sail. Idea was to repair and remodel the boat and learn along the way. Which is exactly what they did and became pretty good sailors along the way. Had they listened to forums like this one, they would have not even tried. The advice would have been "save your money and buy a better boat"

I think we forget that it's often better to risk failure than not to try

Well said!!

He got a lot of advice, all good as far as I could see. But, some folks need to be beat about the head with a two-by-four with the message written on it. This guy was being so unrealistic and seemingly not listening to very well-respected individuals here, that some responders chose, shall we say, strident language. No, sometimes, manytimes, I have taken exception to the tone of some posters here, and sometimes I have gotten a bit off the road myself (and apologized when called on it) but in this case I think (AKA an opinion) that the very direct language used by some responders actually was doing this guy a favor. Some folks just don't listen until they are beat about the head and shoulders. This guy was an example of such.

Jmk2000 said:

Agreed Pmcsmurf, who cares if the guy thinks he can take on everything. I wouldn’t call it arrogance. Y’all’s RUDE reaction wasn’t necessary. The guy came for advice. Either give it or stay out

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catalinajack said:

He got a lot of advice, all good as far as I could see. But, some folks need to be beat about the head with a two-by-four with the message written on it. This guy was being so unrealistic and seemingly not listening to very well-respected individuals here, that some responders chose, shall we say, strident language. No, sometimes, manytimes, I have taken exception to the tone of some posters here, and sometimes I have gotten a bit off the road myself (and apologized when called on it) but in this case I think (AKA an opinion) that the very direct language used by some responders actually was doing this guy a favor. Some folks just don't listen until they are beat about the head and shoulders. This guy was an example of such.

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I reread the thread. From my eyes, the exchange went from "advice" to "judgment" pretty early on. I detected a fair amount of humility on the OPs part for quite a while.

The OP is long gone. Next time a dreamer pops in, I for one will try to find a communication style that is more influential and less condescending. Sometimes form accounts for more than substance.

This is an interesting discussion. Personally I hesitated to post much about my project anywhere online because it's not exactly the 'right' or accepted way to do things. I still limit what I post and share because while I absolutely value advice, I don't need discouragement. Reality caught up with me a long time ago and many thousands of dollars ago! Even something as simple sounding as 'paint the boat' is a massive, expensive DIY project when you are working with a 42' vessel. Living aboard while refitting would be miserable, but some do it. Thankfully I'm not both DIY refit and live aboard at the same time which seems to be about what the OP was proposing.

mvweebles said:

Agree with knot yet. This forum collectively is pretty hard on dreamers. I recently watched a Sailing Uma YouTube. They started with a 45 year old Pearson 36 with a trashed engine and a loose keel that they bought for $3k. They had no idea how to sail. Idea was to repair and remodel the boat and learn along the way. Which is exactly what they did and became pretty good sailors along the way. Had they listened to forums like this one, they would have not even tried. The advice would have been "save your money and buy a better boat"

I think we forget that it's often better to risk failure than not to try

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Your sage comment reminded me that I looked through quite a bit of the Sailing UMA videos, and I quickly noted the savviness of the pair (mostly him with her willing participation and support) in regard to seeking out and heeding advice and parts, largely through the internet. Some of their work had to be redone because of earlier misapprehension of all the factors involved, but by and large they have done well. I would also credit a LOT of their success (50% or more) to their outgoing and engaging personalities which enable them to "market their brand" - work ethic alone probably would not have seen them achieve what they have. Typed verbiage here for the most part leaves us with precious little to go when dreamers jump in here; it's not like we have the opportunity to discuss at length a proposal face-to-face. For that reason, I suspect we remain rather parochial and fixated on the "trawler mindset" which to most of us means retirement or near-retirement bags of money available which we had none of at the early age or minimal finances some dreamers come here with. When I think back to the earliest trawler email list in 1998 and the early years of TF, I get it that they were established with "us" in mind, but in order to grow and get new blood here I think we need to be as non-judgmental as we can to all comers, or we will just become a tied-off blood vessel of a group of old know-it-alls. Don't say, "You're nuts!" but rather like I saw Ted do with something like, "Well, have you considered the storm sea state effects out there on that platform you want to put a house on?" I do not mean that the valuable focus on trawlering and good practical boating should shift, but that while doing that we need a big enough tent in order to accommodate others in the same way the weathered old salt drapes his arm over the young sailor's shoulders saying, "Gee, I wish I was your age wanting to do THAT too; now what about this way......." - even for the guy who wants to build a home on a platform offshore....

rgano said:

Your sage comment reminded me that I looked through quite a bit of the Sailing UMA videos, and I quickly noted the savviness of the pair (mostly him with her willing participation and support) in regard to seeking out and heeding advice and parts, largely through the internet. Some of their work had to be redone because of earlier misapprehension of all the factors involved, but by and large they have done well. I would also credit a LOT of their success (50% or more) to their outgoing and engaging personalities which enable them to "market their brand" - work ethic alone probably would not have seen them achieve what they have. Typed verbiage here for the most part leaves us with precious little to go when dreamers jump in here; it's not like we have the opportunity to discuss at length a proposal face-to-face. For that reason, I suspect we remain rather parochial and fixated on the "trawler mindset" which to most of us means retirement or near-retirement bags of money available which we had none of at the early age or minimal finances some dreamers come here with. When I think back to the earliest trawler email list in 1998 and the early years of TF, I get it that they were established with "us" in mind, but in order to grow and get new blood here I think we need to be as non-judgmental as we can to all comers, or we will just become a tied-off blood vessel of a group of old know-it-alls. Don't say, "You're nuts!" but rather like I saw Ted do with something like, "Well, have you considered the storm sea state effects out there on that platform you want to put a house on?" I do not mean that the valuable focus on trawlering and good practical boating should shift, but that while doing that we need a big enough tent in order to accommodate others in the same way the weathered old salt drapes his arm over the young sailor's shoulders saying, "Gee, I wish I was your age wanting to do THAT too; now what about this way......." - even for the guy who wants to build a home on a platform offshore....

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Nicely said Rich - I remember you from the very old T&T days.

Peter

If you are good at commodities trading, you should devote yourself to that for 5 - 10 years and save up enough money that your choices and decisions aren't fundamentally limited by financial considerations. Being cheap out of necessity may result in the alternate lifestyle you seek that is only a small step above homelessness.