Mantus m2

Just giving my experience with the new and improved mantus m2 ......big disappointment....I paid a lot of money for the 55lb m2 after having one of the m1 style mantus for years and the m1 always set fast and hard but this m2 did TERRIBLE in mud of all things it drug for hundred yards and refused to set multiple times in mud....I was very disappointed if the anchor wasnt still on the boat I'd ask for a refund.....I only ordered the m2 because I was worried the m1 wouldnt fit on the roller....so while the m2 set good in sand and held good it was TERRIBLE in mud and I never felt safe and had a good night sleep at anchor knowing it was my only anchor out there.....I'm sure to get slammed by the mantus reps who get paid to brag ok their anchors but m1 amazing anchor m2 fn terrible anchor

I have not looked at Mantus anchors, what is the difference between the M1 and M2?

In broad terms the original Mantus is a roll bar anchor - big skinny hoop. The M2 is the non-roll bar new alternative (similar in application to Rocna hoop vs Rocna Vulcan, although not saying they are the same anchors).

I can’t use a rollbar anchor in my pulpit. So that rules out a lot of the newer anchors. Sounds like without the rollbar they aren’t as good.

Comodave said:

I can’t use a rollbar anchor in my pulpit. So that rules out a lot of the newer anchors. Sounds like without the rollbar they aren’t as good.

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Having owned and loved the Super Sarca, one of the earliest roll-bar anchors, I would tend to agree in general, especially with respect to quick setting. However, this dragging badly in the mud with the M2 sounds a bit odd, unless it was actually failing to set properly in mud, as once set, the flukes are not that different, and I don't feel the roll-bar adds much to not dragging in mud, but might add a bit. However it is in effect, just another spade copy, and looks like in soft stuff it might just lay on its side and slide.

Personally I always felt the original Mantus was a kind of flimsy-looking, (as compared to S-Sarca, Rocna and Mantus Supreme), but owners certainly tend to rate them quite highly, so this posters experience with the M2 is rather telling.
One of the beauties of the somewhat agricultural S-Sarca was its weapons grade, made to do the business, appearance.

https://www.mantusmarine.com
https://www.marinewarehouse.com.au/manson-boss-anchors
https://rocna.com
http://www.anchorright.com.au/products/sarca-anchors/

I have always felt that the one potential weakness of all those spade types, including the Rocna Vulcan, Manson Boss, and now this Mantus possibly as well, was to get them to set and dig in. Once set, then yes, good holding should follow. But how well do they re-set on a reverse pull hard enough to un-set them..? Therein lies the possible problem.

Peter B said:

I have always felt that the one potential weakness of all those spade types, including the Rocna Vulcan, Manson Boss, and now this Mantus possibly as well, was to get them to set and dig in. Once set, then yes, good holding should follow. But how well do they re-set on a reverse pull hard enough to un-set them..? Therein lies the possible problem.

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As long as they're not clogged with a giant glob of sticky mud or anything, they should reset just fine. I know the Spade did fine in Panope's testing for a violent reversal at fairly short scope. I can say that at least the initial set on my Vulcan is pretty easy and uneventful. Just drop anchor and rode, give it a tug and it sets. I've had 1 or 2 cases where it seemed to drag a hair before setting in mud (may have dropped it on top of something), but it hasn't failed to set so far.

I have never joined in on the anchor discussions because I don't know much about them (Imagine that). I'm not certain what kind I have. All I know is that it works and I like it.

I may go back and read up on the anchor debate this winter. If this thread is any indication there is a TON of information and knowledge out there. I am impressed guys,( and probably gals).

I love this forum for exactly this reason.

pete

Yes I believe to my knowledge that's what the anchor did in soft mud just laid on its side never setting ...it drug forever I literally had to tie a rope around a channel marker...... maybe if once set in the anchor would hold but I will say I did not sleep well after almost dragging into boats the first two nights on anchor using it ..
.I believe in sand it does ok as I anchored it in a place with a fast current and when the tide changed and current switched directions and started ripping the other way it reset immediately...but mud ...took 100 yards+ to set

Whgoffrn said:

Just giving my experience with the new and improved mantus m2 ......big disappointment....I paid a lot of money for the 55lb m2 after having one of the m1 style mantus for years and the m1 always set fast and hard but this m2 did TERRIBLE in mud of all things it drug for hundred yards and refused to set multiple times in mud....I was very disappointed if the anchor wasnt still on the boat I'd ask for a refund.....I only ordered the m2 because I was worried the m1 wouldnt fit on the roller....so while the m2 set good in sand and held good it was TERRIBLE in mud and I never felt safe and had a good night sleep at anchor knowing it was my only anchor out there.....I'm sure to get slammed by the mantus reps who get paid to brag ok their anchors but m1 amazing anchor m2 fn terrible anchor

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Thanks for review.

There's a big thread here from a couple years ago about anchor tests (sponsored by Fortress) in the Chesapeake mud; you might want to review that.

They only tested maybe about 10-12 different anchors though, IIRC, so all of the more recent types my not be represented.

And FWIW, one anchor they did not include but that I know works very well in soupy mud is the SuperMAX.

-Chris

I am surprised to read this, I friend purchased an me for his 52 ft sailboat. Dropped it in the water about 10 weeks ago and his boat hasn't moved an inch since. Mud and sand bottom. I will be interested to hear other users reviews. I suspect this anchor is so new there is not much experience yet

Pete Meisinger said:

I have never joined in on the anchor discussions because I don't know much about them (Imagine that). I'm not certain what kind I have. All I know is that it works and I like it...
pete

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Pete, Pete, I find that unbelievabubble. That you don't actually know what kind of anchor you have..? That's a bit like asking someone what make of car they drive, and them saying..."I'm not certain what make I have. All I know is that it works and I like it..."

This phenomenon has me intrigued. It has to be a first. Pete, please go check and get back to us on that. Take a photo and post it. We'll soon tell you what you have, even if it's a knock-off...

Years ago, I had a couple of 35-lb Danforths I was trying to set as stern quarter anchors in the bottom of our bayou in preps for a hurricane. Great sand and sandy-mud anchors, but on this occasion in about 5 feet of water with two hundred feet of 5/8-inch nylon rode and 20 feet of 5/16" BBB chain at the anchor they just winched right on up to the boat, AFTER I had gone out and stood on their fluke tips to get them started. That was SOME soupy mud. A couple of FX-37 Fortresses set on "mud" solved that problem the next time setting in no discernable distance, and the Danforths were trashed.

So maybe you were in exceptionally soupy mud which is a challenge for most anchors, except the Fortress and maybe some shovel anchors like my current SuperMax.

I've quite successfully set Deltas, CQRs and Danforths in mud bottoms like found in the Chesapeake (a Delta many many times in many places in the USA and CQRs quite a bit) so it would really surprise me if the M2 wouldn't.

Anchoring is 80% technique.

caltexflanc said:

I've quite successfully set Deltas, CQRs and Danforths in mud bottoms like found in the Chesapeake (a Delta many many times in many places in the USA and CQRs quite a bit) so it would really surprise me if the M2 wouldn't.

Anchoring is 80% technique.

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All I can give is my account of what happened....I had just gotten to my boat which the previous own had anchored 1 from bow 1 from stern and I never liked anchoring this way as wind can blow from beam and boat cant pivot so knowing a bad storm was coming within my first hour on the boat I rushed to get both danforths up which in retrospect I should have left there as they were buried DEEP in that mud ...so I rushed to drop my m2 and it drug everywhere first time never set at all drug so bad I gave up pulled it back up and chose to just motor through the storm out away from other boats as I almost hit multiple boats....it drug for every bit of 30 mins as I tried everything to get that anchor to set ...fearing getting the rode caught in prop and anchor that wouldn't set I opted to pull it up and rode the storm out under power doing circles around the crowded Anchorage......very dissapoited and disastrous first start of ownership....that was with a 10 to 1 or longer scope as well
2and time was at peck lake which also is mostly mud at least where I was anchored ...it once again drug for ever and I almost ran into a quite pricey catamaran that was prob 100 yards behind me ...I had to pick the anchor up in a blow and retry setting it 3x before I finally moved about 1/4 mile away from the Anchorage to allow it to drag....it finally dug in and quit dragging but after those first two times I really lost a lot of faith in the anchor
I've had nothing but mantus anchors for 6 years on a sailboat (m1 style and smaller being a 26' sailboat) but I trusted mantus anchord with my life ....those m1 anchors never drug one time in any bottom .....the new improved m2 ...I feel is not an improvement at all ....only purchased it based on mantus reputation and my previous experience with the m1 and because I wasnt sure if an m1 would fit on my bow
Watch the videos of mantus showing how fast it sets and resets .....in sand yeah maybe it does.....mud is definitely a weak spot with this anchor though....technique used is same technique I had always used ... however deep water its dropped in multiply by 7 -10 and let that much chain rode out .....hell with my m1 I never even backed down on the anchor to ensure it set ....I just dropped it and forgot about it ...it ALWAYS set immediately so I never worried always knowing when or if a storm came the stronger wind would bury it for me....hundreds of nights on anchor never drug a foot through some quite powerful storms .....this m2 you better ensure its buried is all I'm saying and I have no idea what the anchor would do in mud if a storm rolled through and wind switched direction .....in sand the anchor did well ....I anchored it in the canal behind the stuart sandbar and the current really starts to rip when the tide changes and it was set on outgoing tide in stiff current and it reset fast when current changed and moved boat 180 degrees but that's purely soft sand bottom ......mud I'll never trust that anchor again

I went with the 45 Mantus M2 on our 34 Mainship. That is probably overkill but I have never had any issue with it moving an inch. But our mud is more of a clay consistency so can't speak to the soupy kind.



Don

DonW28 said:

I went with the 45 Mantus M2 on our 34 Mainship. That is probably overkill but I have never had any issue with it moving an inch. But our mud is more of a clay consistency so can't speak to the soupy kind.



Don

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I've got the 55 on a 36 cym that I think weighs 24k lbs ... maybe it was just too soupy I dunno it really shocked me

The biggest variable in anchoring is the sea floor.
Most anchors that fail, fail to set.
I applaud Steve G. for seemingly knowing this as he set out to do anchor testing.

Even the old Claw anchor that has the best old anchor reputation for setting will at times stick one side fluke down into the bottom and never rotate to an upright position thereby having all three flukes set into the seafloor. Just plowing along (at 90 degrees to vertical) with probably 1/4 of it’s holding power. I’ll bet many many Claw users have spent the night only half set and never knew it.

These hatchlings (That I refer to above) that hatched from roll bar anchors seem to have in common a wide throat angle that has, effectively a wide angle at the fluke tip ... where all the action starts could likely be a bit similar to a bull dozer (at 90 degrees) and it’s blade. With a wide throat angle the fluke tip may be more inclined to plow along on the surface not penetrating the seafloor. One anchor that lacks this wide throat angle is the Excel. Shaped more like a Delta the fluke tip is closer to ideal In setting angle that would be a zero degree throat angle. The angle of the tip as it starts it’s setting drag of a few inches is a critical angle IMO. Danforths have an extremely low set/drag angle initially ... possibly to a fault. I sometimes envision a Danforth trying to set on a seafloor of golf balls would just slide along.
The Excel seems to have that angle just right. And many to most of the “hatchling” anchors try to penetrate the bottom .. too much sideways with a wide throat angle.

Mantus is aware is of this problem with the new M2 setting in soft mud. They have resigned the shank angle and are replacing them on the first batch. They will send you a new redesigned shank to bolt on your self. Good on them for admitting a flaw.

Sounds like the OP was in a hurry and had reasons to be. Never optimal. If you can afford to be patient, shank angle is less of an issue.

freshalaska said:

Mantus is aware is of this problem with the new M2 setting in soft mud. They have resigned the shank angle and are replacing them on the first batch. They will send you a new redesigned shank to bolt on your self. Good on them for admitting a flaw.

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Really that's the first I'd heard of that

Have spent the last 7 years living in the hook with a Rocna and all chain rode. The nexgen anchors are awesome but have their issues.
Every test done consistently shows they need a different mindset when anchoring in loose mud. Drop chain and wait....and wait.....and wait. Don’t back down just wait. They need to sink through loose mud ( Chessie, Block island and the like) then they will grab. For mud nothing beats a danforth or fortress. We have a fortress as the secondary anchor.
Every nextgen has trouble with 180 shifts. Unless on loose sand they will skip a bit before resetting. The fastest resets are with the Spade.
The Rocna does much better than prior CQRs I have had. Does just fine with 5:1 through anything. Even did great at 3:1 through a 35-45kn squall in Marigot bay St.Lucia.
Never like any of the Mantus. Don’t like bolts. Don’t like places where crevice corrosion can cause failure. Think bolts are ridiculous on an anchor.
If I ever need to replace the Rocna it will be a Spade. I’ll never go away from all chain used with dual snubbers.
I was brought up always backing down. After talking with many people more experienced than me I now never back down until at least a 1/2 hour has passed. If I’m in grass I might gently back down just until the chain is straight but that’s it. Convinced a strong initial backdown just rips them out but pull from wind even if strong causes them to bury and bury. It’s common to not see the anchor at all after you’re on the hook for a week.
I don’t ever leave the boat without checking my set. See backing down with the nexgen as not part of the initial setting anchor evolution but rather to be used long after that event to check set. So check set either with backing down or diving the anchor. I want to see it totally buried with just a bit of the roll bar showing

To the OP. First, +1 for not hitting anyone. Must have been a tight sphincter event. Had a similar situation anchoring off Norfolk waiting for passage. Was on a sailboat but same problem. Tired from it being snotty on the Jersey coast and blowing dogs off their chains. Fortunately no one near. However from prior experience in Block new harbor knew to lay out my scope then power forward enough that there was slack in the chain and wait. Repeat forward and neutral with just the weight of chain creating the set. Use that technique regardless of wind strength. It’s stressful having to wait at least 15 m before being able to go to neutral permanently before shutting down. Mantus may change the angle but doubt that will change things much if at all. Think they all “float” on the surface of loose mud with nothing of substance on the top of the flukes. Even with big scope and a higher shank angle they won’t get enough pressure on the top of the flukes with soupy mud to bury. With its weighted tip the spade is said to do better in mud. But none of the nexgens do as well as a original Danforth or a Fortress. Nature of the beast . Agree a danforth/Fortress is lousy in so many other settings can’t see using one as a primary but every dog has his day.

In Peter B's 2nd link see how the aft edge of the Boss anchor levers up the anchor so it tips over in the desired direction. Fine on a hard surface, but on a soft mud seafloor the "winglet" probably penetrates the mud and won't provide the "purchase" or resistance necessary to allow the CG to move the anchor into the upright position. The winglet needs a bigger "foot" to keep that part of the fluke corner up so it will rotate correctly.
Whgoffrn,
Take your anchor to a good weld shop and have them weld a bigger ear onto the winglet for greater surface area. Should work fine in mud then ..................

New edit at 7:30 pm PST
Just got back from the Mantus site. Can clearly see the shape of the fluke tips.
The problem w the tips is that they don't have a "winglet" vertically. They have a wingtip extension but that no doubt just slides down into the seabed and hence the anchor dosn't achieve the position that the original Mantus does.
A fix that would get you by or be permanent would be to weld onto the top of the very edge of the horizontal "winglet" a steel tube about 1" to 1 1/4" dia. and about 1" to 2 inches high. The 2" high side outboard. Cut it off at an angle to get 1 1/4" inbd. and the 2" height outboard. That will work. However Mantus may provide you w a better solution. But then they obviously didn't do testing in soft mud.
Their solution will probably be a vertical winglet (like you see on passenger jets.) You could do that too. It would look better. If you go w the vertical winglet Make it at least the surface area as the tube I describe. Maybe a little bit bigger.
This is for you only and I take no responsibility for what you do w your anchor.

The above was probably too confusing.

What I should have said was something like this;

The fluke outboard tips stick straight out and thus straight down (like a knife) when the anchor is in the setting position. Nothing to impede the wingtip from sliding down into the slimy bottom.

On the old Mantus the first two inches of the roll bar provided enough surface area to support the anchor enough to allow the anchor to roll around to the upright position. One could perhaps cut 2” off the ends of the roll bar and attach them to the outboard ends of the fluke of the new anchor.
But the new anchor, it seems was designed to indeed penetrate the seafloor. Mantus seemed to not realize that a footprint there was needed. Perhaps they didn’t realize the original Mantus roll bar was performing this essential job.

Nomad Willy said:

..... Perhaps they didn’t realize the original Mantus roll bar was performing this essential job.

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Precisely what roll bars do, and which is why I will always advise anyone whose pulpit arrangement will accommodate a modern roll bar anchor should still go for that. The spade types may well, if they set, dig in really deep, and have great holding power. But what most folks want, is not an anchor that, if well set, will see them through a hurricane, but one that sets quickly and well - and essentially every time...and has great holding power..! That's what the roll bar anchors do.

freshalaska said:

Mantus is aware is of this problem with the new M2 setting in soft mud. They have resigned the shank angle and are replacing them on the first batch. They will send you a new redesigned shank to bolt on your self. Good on them for admitting a flaw.

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That is good to know. I am somewhat underwhelmed with my M2. I will be calling them to see what we can do about it. I hope I don’t already have the new improved version. Otherwise I think I will be looking at replacing it with the M1.

So Mantus thinks it’s the shank.
That’s what I thought at first too hmmmmm.

Opps ... I was wrong .. probably.

I had an anchor w a high extension On top of the shank. I put it there thinking if the anchor was trying to drag along up-side down the anchor would roll over w a very high shank. The anchor worked. It always set .. but very slowly. Also it didn’t have a ballasted tip so it probably just layed on it’s side too long. And the Mantus may be laying on it’s side too. The shank IS very high. But then the Boss is too.

So maybe it is the throat angle. Peter B agreed w me when I thought it was. And I agreed w Peter that the Mantus 1 looked sorta flimsy. I thought that of the Boss too. But re the shank being too high that would tend to cause the anchor to stay laying on it’s side. But what if the ballast was just a very small amount AND the shank was heavy and tall.
On the M1 the shank is very long and not very heavy looking. I suspected it might bend in the past and perhaps they made the M2 shank out of thicker material and thus upsetting the balance CG wise. ??

The Boss has a “winglet” that (as far as I can tell from pics) is sort-of a hook .... and may insure that the fluke tip pulls down into the seafloor.

Well when our OP gets the new “fixed” anchor we should be able to see what was changed and the mystery will be solved.

The pic shows my modded Supreme at some point in the past. Notice the very tall shank extension as a kind-of a lattice fence work. The upper curve does look much like the Mantus M2.
Also notice the foot or pad at the edge of the fluke. All or most all roll bar anchors have essentially the same "pad" to keep the aft end of the anchor high so the fwd. fluke tip will point down into the seafloor. The M2 is lacking such a pad. Now I'm going to be very curious to see if Mantus changes the fluke edge w a pad.

Pete Meisinger said:

I have never joined in on the anchor discussions because I don't know much about them (Imagine that). I'm not certain what kind I have. All I know is that it works and I like it.

I may go back and read up on the anchor debate this winter. If this thread is any indication there is a TON of information and knowledge out there. I am impressed guys,( and probably gals).

I love this forum for exactly this reason.

pete

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I doubt that you will manage to do it in only one winter

Have a Rocna which obviously has a roll bar. It’s the best anchor I’ve owned in 35+ years of doing this but in some circumstances the roll bar is a negative. First with a significant wind shift. Actually had occasion to watch this. We were doing zincs, the bottom and hull chores. So in and out the dinghy and water. Roll bar anchors don’t pivot position under the surface of the bottom. They come up and reset. This usually fine as it happens in a very short distance when on a good bottom. But I can see if you drop in a small patch of sand with grass around you it could lead to issues. My observation is antidotal and in 15-20 with a shift over 30-45 minutes. They don’t do well in soupy mud. The roll bar may sink before the flukes and take quite awhile to sort itself out. Part of the roll bar is above the shaft in many positions. Regardless of scope it offers resistance causing the tip to rise. Not an issue in sand or packed mud where even the tip grabbing is more than sufficient to overcome this but when the whole anchor is in soup with lousy resistance to pull think this comes into play. Just my 2 cents.