New guy here !

Hello everyone, my name is Todd. My wife and I are soon to be retired and are doing careful and relentless research before purchasing our new liveaboard home.

We wish to cruise from Florida to the Bahamas frequently and seem to have settled on a Mainship 400. I have concerns over the models that have the single engine as opposed to two. Any helpful advice on the 400 or the liveaboard lifestyle in general would be greatly appreciated.

Look forward to learning from all of the experience you guys can share. Thank You!

Welcome to TF Todd.

We (some) are old guys and we like pictures of your boat and adventures...

To me the main reason for twins when going to the Bahamas would be convenience and money when and if it came t a major engine repair.


To get towed back would be inconvenient and expensive (depending on where you are).


Everything else can be mitigated by thrusters, good maintenance, carrying tools and spares, etc...etc... all hashed out many time and many places on the internet.


But the above is still personal preference and mine is not to live with those.

Twin Diesels

PSneeld
I guess my biggest concern is the 400s inability to escape or out run some unexpected inclement weather with the single engine. Have you had any similar experience or am I just being over cautious? Thank You for your response!

I would suggest not buying a particular boat for one destination as you have many years and destinations ahead of you. It depends more on the condition/dependability of the single engine. Though the point of Bahamian tows being expensive is true, it's not enough to justify paying for a second engine IMHO. Weather wise, sailboats don't outrun weather. June-Oct is the most likely time for weather popping up unexpectedly. Winter storms usually give warning. BTW if the boat has a tunnel hull, they are miserable to back into a slip without a bow thruster. How many times have you been on a 400 and piloted one?

Welcome aboard. Lots of people have single engines, we have twins but never run ove 10 knots. You just watch the weather carefully.

Todd U said:

Hello everyone, my name is Todd. My wife and I are soon to be retired and are doing careful and relentless research before purchasing our new liveaboard home.

We wish to cruise from Florida to the Bahamas frequently and seem to have settled on a Mainship 400. I have concerns over the models that have the single engine as opposed to two. Any helpful advice on the 400 or the liveaboard lifestyle in general would be greatly appreciated.

Look forward to learning from all of the experience you guys can share. Thank You!

Click to expand...

Wifey B: Would you share a bit more about your boating experience and will it be just you and your wife or others cruising with you? Might get you better answers, more directly applicable to you and your situation. Also, what do you enjoy doing on a boat? What speed preference? Anchoring or Marinas? Diving or just observing?

Todd U said:

PSneeld
I guess my biggest concern is the 400s inability to escape or out run some unexpected inclement weather with the single engine. Have you had any similar experience or am I just being over cautious? Thank You for your response!

Click to expand...

Wifey B: "Unexpected inclement weather?" Between FL and the Bahamas? Shouldn't be. The forecasts are quite good within the range of 3 to 4 days and even longer. If weather is unexpected, you weren't paying attention. Use all the available weather services and subscribe to extras in your cruising area. But don't be poorly informed and surprised. We've cruised well over 100,000 nm and not once can I remember finding unexpected weather. The worst has been following a system for days that "might develop" and it did. Storms don't just pop up out of nowhere. They come from weather systems. It's like an unexpected baby.

I have the 400 with twins. I love the boat but have not lived on it longer than a week or so. Condsiderations: Roomy salon, large aft cabin, large flybridge so lots of living space to spread out. Master cabin is a bit small, hard to even pull on a pair of pants without banging your head, but island berth is decent for two plus a small pooch. We like the separate shower in the head. Our summer kitchen has an electric grill, some came with propane. I need to run the gen to grill at anchor.

We cruise at about 9-10 knots but can go 16 or 17 if needed. I like having twins for redundancy and maneuverability. The oil filter on the starboard is the only thing I can't easily reach so far; hope to re-locate one day.

Decent storage, good handling but in a following sea it will wallow a bit, as a lot of trawlers do. Trim tabs don't seem to do much.

We don't regret our purchase. I am happy to answer any specific questions.

Single engine boat:

1) The dinghy and motor is your emergency back up, you should get a reasonable tow doing 5 knots if the motor is 9.9 +

2) For difficult situations maneuvering, this always occurs at low speed, usually around docks - bow thruster.

WifeyB
We are from the midwest. The "unexpected" inclement weather I was referring to are sudden pop up thunderstorms we frequently have that are the result of the days convection. I dont have any experience with weather between Fl and the Bahamas. Your information regarding that was a welcome relief.

I am a previous boat owner of "weekenders" & "open bow" vessels 21'-23'. I have no experience with a Mainship 400 and have never piloted one nor do I have any experience in open waters.

We have many children and grandchildren who frequently will fly to our location for "free vacations" aboard. We simply love being on the water and enjoy the journey as much or more than the destination. We dont snorkel or dive, we love the solitude. I enjoy and look forward to fishing and we simply want to island hop in the Bahamas and explore, as slow and comfortable as possible.

We will liveaboard in Florida and would like to simply cruise at our leisure with no particular time frame, anchoring or taking moorings along the way. Just want to absorb the splendor that is Florida and the Bahamas

Gary
Thank you so much for your response. Your information is of great help. After extensively researching 1000's of vessels, the 400 appears to fit our needs and lifestyle the best. As I mentioned in my earlier post I'm just concerned that the 400 lacks that acceleration to get out of a jam. I feel like having that second engine certainly is an extra safety measure that will provide peace of mind.

Can you share how many GPH your burning at 9-10 knots? And is that figure for one or both engines. How is your visibility from the cockpit helm looking through the windows? Is your electric grill able to easily be converted to propane? Thank You again for your time!

Thanks for the update on your boating history. It's like going from hiking hilly county parks to full on mountain hiking. It can be done but lots of prep. Twin engines are 20X easier to maneuver at the docks. Especially with a boat like Mainships that have lots of "sail surface" where the wind blows you into boats docked nearby. So I edit my earlier comment about single engine boats for you. There are ways to mitigate this issue but learning to maneuver a large boat with no previous experience, twins are going to give you a low stress experience. Definitely worth the higher price.

SWfla
I have never been on or piloted a 400. The positive opinions I have developed about the 400 come merely from research, and thousands of photos and videos. I am a sponge from current and former Mainship owners. I am a previous owner of open bow and weekender vessels however have zero experience on the open water. Cruising in no particular hurry is a leap that my wife and I want to take in our soon to be retirement years. I have been actively researching that perfect cruising vessel and seem to keep coming back to the 400 that checks nearly all of our boxes. Thank you so much for your information!

SwFla
The maneuverability issue never even occurred to me. Was so preoccupied only with the security that second engine would provide. Thanks again for your insight

Todd U said:

WifeyB
We are from the midwest. The "unexpected" inclement weather I was referring to are sudden pop up thunderstorms we frequently have that are the result of the days convection. I dont have any experience with weather between Fl and the Bahamas. Your information regarding that was a welcome relief.

I am a previous boat owner of "weekenders" & "open bow" vessels 21'-23'. I have no experience with a Mainship 400 and have never piloted one nor do I have any experience in open waters.

Click to expand...

Wifey B: Once heard of a weather forecast given on April 1 in Chattanooga reportedly. "High in the upper to mid 80's, low in the upper to mid 60's with a chance of afternoon thunderstorms through September." Well, afternoon thunderstorms are the norm here but that's not the weather impacting you on the water. We've got that today, but still seas only 3'.

Now, we came from the lake environment you did, bowriders up to 30'. So the word for the day is (oh teacher me coming through), "Training."

You need to think about how you're going to get from where you are to where you want to be in order to cruise the coast and to the Bahamas. I'd say two parts are needed as you need some formal classroom type training ("book learnin') and some practical hands on training. A number of ways to get them. After the formal, you'll probably want to cruise a couple of days with a captain who is willing and able to train and may even want to engage one for your first trip to the Bahamas.

You might even want to do a couple of charters before buying. Two excellent charter companies on the west coast of FL and they provide both bareboat, which you're not ready for, and captained, which could also help you in learning.

https://www.swfyachts.com/

https://www.chitwood-charters.com/

Great way to get your first exposure to coastal boating and to boats somewhat similar to what you'll be looking for.

Todd U said:

Gary
Thank you so much for your response. Your information is of great help. After extensively researching 1000's of vessels, the 400 appears to fit our needs and lifestyle the best. As I mentioned in my earlier post I'm just concerned that the 400 lacks that acceleration to get out of a jam. I feel like having that second engine certainly is an extra safety measure that will provide peace of mind.

Can you share how many GPH your burning at 9-10 knots? And is that figure for one or both engines. How is your visibility from the cockpit helm looking through the windows? Is your electric grill able to easily be converted to propane? Thank You again for your time!

Click to expand...

I can't imagine my 400 getting into a jam and I can't get out of with my engines, but I would also say the same thing about a single. Trawlers are not known for their acceleration

I have only rarely driven from the lower helm, I prefer the view upstairs. If I had to comment, I would say the forward visibility is not as good as from the flybridge, but still perfectly fine. The rear visibility is better from below.

Here is the fuel chart, which I would say is optimistic. It probably assumes a new boat with little gear and half full tanks. Still, it should give you an idea of what to expect.

Awesome advice! Thank you for the links! Will most certainly make this happen!

Agreed enthusiastically. There are charter companies/sole proprietors who give 3-4 day hands on instruction. Finding someone like this with a Mainship would be worth going out of state for. I can say for certain that many new boaters have sold their single engine boat due to docking difficulties after one season. It can be done, obviously and maybe you'll take to it like a duck to water. I believe that the 400 no longer has tunnels in the hull which is a big improvement from the 350/390 model. There's enough boating season left to get some hands on experience. It may solidify your love of the 400 or completely change your mind. On another aspect, many marinas don't allow live aboard for more than 2-3 nights per week. This may mesh with your plans but wanted you to be informed.

I owned a twin engine trawler for a lot of years. It went eight knots give or take, and there was no such thing as being able to run from a sudden weather event. Then I downsized to this single engine, zippy little mainship. Guess what? Still can't do much running from a sudden weather event. They are just too big and your options are usually limited by local geography. Rare if ever will you be in waters where you can successfully evade with a 360-degree option. I suggest you place "ability to avoid sudden weather" WAY down on the list and then see whether you thing twins are as desirable. Full disclosure: In 29 years on the trawler, I never had tow insurance, and never entered port on one engine - ever. Three years after buying this single engine boat, a seawater cooling line blew, and we got a tow home (2 miles) through our towing policy with TowBoatUS. Go figure. The maneuverability issue with the tiny rudder of this small boat is pretty much nullified by the bow thruster. One last thing is the protection of the prop and rudder afforded on most single engine vessels NOT available on most twins. Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances.

Excellent knowledge and insight.

RGano
Thank you for taking time to share your experience! Is very helpful

Hi Todd,
We’re pretty new also just shopping for our boat
Welcome, Barb & Don
We’re on the east coast central Fl.
We are enrolled and paid to take a 6 day, three days back to back course on a mainship 400 the end of Aug in Cape Coral Fl. Excited about the adventure and learning.

Lavmaul
How exciting that you guys have reached this stage of your search. May I ask how much the course costs? Is this the "Burnt Store Marina"? Can you provide the company name or a link? Are you using your own boat? Do they take you out to open waters? Sorry so many questions. Thank You!

That's just perfect for you Todd. Very excited and hopeful you and wife can go there.

Proud owner of Pathfinder, Mainship 400 single engine. We love our boat and cruised her from Newport RI to Florida & Bahamas (Pathfinder's Log - Trawler Cruising Blog)

Don't worry about buying a single vs. twin -- most problems are fuel related which affect both engines, single has easy access in the engine room to both sides of the engine, and speed differential isn't large. She handles well with single and bow thruster.

I took the diesel engine glass at Max Boring (Training – Mack Boring & Parts Company) before our long voyage but never had any engine problems.

Pull the trigger and start your voyage!

New guy

Todd U said:

Hello everyone, my name is Todd. My wife and I are soon to be retired and are doing careful and relentless research before purchasing our new liveaboard home.

We wish to cruise from Florida to the Bahamas frequently and seem to have settled on a Mainship 400. I have concerns over the models that have the single engine as opposed to two. Any helpful advice on the 400 or the liveaboard lifestyle in general would be greatly appreciated.

Look forward to learning from all of the experience you guys can share. Thank You!

Click to expand...

One engine or two? What kind of anchor is best? Blondes or Brunettes?
I'm kidding because all of those questions will get you more advice than you bargained for.

Here's my two cents worth:

When I was searching for my boat one of my main criteria was 1 engine. With diesel engines, the vast majority of the time, a failure of one engine is due to fuel issues. If that's the case then if one engine quits, the other is probably not far behind. I think the redundancy and safety issues of two (diesel) engines is overblown. Not saying that people with two engines haven't been saved by having an extra, I'm just saying the odds are that if you lose one you will likely lose the other. The cost of buying a boat with two is generally higher and whether you are talking about annual maintenance or large repairs, two engines are twice as expensive as one. (Two engines, two heat exchangers, two transmissions, two shafts, two stuffing boxes, two cutlass bearings, two props, etc). Then there is the issue of room and convenience. I can walk (crawl) 360 degrees around my one Ford Lehman 120 and I have easy access to every part on it, my transmission and everything in the engine room.
That means a lot.
The down side is that I don't have thrusters and backing, particularly if it's windy, is a bear. Practice will overcome that. I've had people tell me that it's nice to have thrusters after watching me back into a slip and they are surprised when I tell them that I don't have any. I'm not bragging here, I'm saying that you shouldn't avoid a single engine powered boat because of maneuverability issues. It's a painful but learnable skill.

If you are looking at gas powered boats, that's a horse of a different color.

Todd U said:

Hello everyone, my name is Todd. My wife and I are soon to be retired and are doing careful and relentless research before purchasing our new liveaboard home.

We wish to cruise from Florida to the Bahamas frequently and seem to have settled on a Mainship 400. I have concerns over the models that have the single engine as opposed to two. Any helpful advice on the 400 or the liveaboard lifestyle in general would be greatly appreciated.

Look forward to learning from all of the experience you guys can share. Thank You!

Click to expand...

It depends, and today we have electric options for ‘limp to port’ capabilities. There is also handling to consider. You can put a single screw boat anywhere you can put a twin screw boat, the difference is the twin screw boat gives you 2 options of how to get it there. As the single screw operator it’s up to you to understand which is available to you, and which will screw you over, and then execute the one the boat will accomplish.

Personally I would prefer a single screw with electric hybrid drive that feeds off battery and genset. That way electric or mechanical drive gives the same propulsion/full handling, and I get the option for limited full silent for ghosting around a Harbor for a 2 hr tour.

As for live aboard, the combo washer/dryer units are nice if you don’t already have laundry aboard. They’re slow, but you can start it and forget it, and when you open it the stuff is dry.

Boating course

Todd U said:

Lavmaul
How exciting that you guys have reached this stage of your search. May I ask how much the course costs? Is this the "Burnt Store Marina"? Can you provide the company name or a link? Are you using your own boat? Do they take you out to open waters? Sorry so many questions. Thank You!

Click to expand...

The three day back to back courses are approximately 5600.00 we stay on the boat for six nights, move right in ! But weighting what the boat will cost when we purchase one plus really needing a vacation, like everyone else we canceled all our trip plans. Hopefully a good investment and Totally looking forward to the experience

Three days on open water one night on the hook. You can do two nights on the hook if you choose. Class is 9 am to 5 pm the Capt spends two of those days 24/7 with you. Happy it’s a mainship 400, good deck plan