Engine oil level. Any way to monitor it remotely?

The recent thread on ST44 Daily Engine Checks prompted me to create this thread.


The only way to check the oil level in my 165hp turbo diesel engine is via the dipstick. In order to do this, I must take up the carpet and padding in the main salon and raise a very large and heavy engine hatch (that has the dining table permanently bolted to it). A real PITA.


I thought maybe I could find some type of electro-sensor device I could insert in place of the dipstick, such that I could have an oil-level gauge at the helm. So far, I haven't been able to come up with one. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Or, does anyone have any alternative solution to suggest?


I have ruled out cutting an access hole in the hatch because the construction of the hatch would not allow me to position such a hole in the necessary location.



Thank you, in advance, for your thoughts on this!

Not real practical for a level measuring device. There is a lot of fluid motion in the pan, a lot of splashing and rapid pressure pulses. All make level sensing instruments problematic.

You might be able to modify the dipstick so it is in a better location. Maybe cut down the tube and use a shorter stick that could be accessed by the side of the engine. Assuming you can get to the side of the engine!!

Thanks for your comments, Ski. I really am only interested in measuring the oil-level remotely when the boat is at the dock. Relocating the dipstick is something that hadn't occurred to me. This, along with cutting an access hole/hatch in the side of the engine cocoon might be a workable option.

If there is a way you can view the appropriate part of the engine without having to lift the heavy hatch, how about a sump oil sight gauge like this? https://www.grainger.com/product/LDI-INDUSTRIES-Union-Coupling-5HD47?

Interesting option, Rich! Maybe if I position it cleverly and make a small cutout in the cocoon at just the right spot, this could work, as I have fairly easy access to the engine room outside of the engine cocoon. Maybe this is a wild new use for webcams we've been discussing in other threads...

Anything that makes me go into the ER often is a GOOD think in my mind. While preflighting oil level, I'm also looking at overall condition, would probably see coolant leaks, smell any electrical issues, etc. Same reason I change my own vehicle oil . . . don't really save much money, but it gets me under the hood and under the car to look at other stuff . . .

No problem, except pan has to be removed to fit measuring device.


The L129 Series Lube Level Swichgage instrument is a combination lube level indicating gauge and adjustable low and high limit switches. It provides protection against low oil level or high level caused by overfill or fuel or water seepage into the crankcase.

L129 Series | Murphy by Enovation Controls

Murphy has other systems that are easier to install.


When cruising we do our pre- start check just after engine shutdown, so if a rapid departure is ever needed , turn the key and GO!

slowgoesit said:

Anything that makes me go into the ER often is a GOOD think in my mind. While preflighting oil level, I'm also looking at overall condition, would probably see coolant leaks, smell any electrical issues, etc. Same reason I change my own vehicle oil . . . don't really save much money, but it gets me under the hood and under the car to look at other stuff . . .

Click to expand...

I can't agree more. In fact I like going in every hour or two while on long passages, sniffing around and taking temperature readings. An ER setup as described in the OP is completely unacceptable to me.

Andy what about coolant and transmission oil levels too in addition to a number of other "preflight" checks?

caltexflanc said:

I can't agree more. In fact I like going in every hour or two while on long passages, sniffing around and taking temperature readings. An ER setup as described in the OP is completely unacceptable to me.

Andy what about coolant and transmission oil levels too in addition to a number of other "preflight" checks?

Click to expand...

I fully agree about the pre-flights and regular check of all this stuff. It's not something that occurred to me, however, before I bought the boat. I'm pretty much stuck with the setup I have, so I have to try my best to strike a balance between checks and practicality. It seems that the "solution" I've arrived at is to check engine room/oil/coolant,etc ALWAYS before going out to sea. On days spent traversing limited distance in canals, however, I only check every few days.


The only other option I can see is to sell the boat and get one with better engine access.

ScottC said:

Interesting option, Rich! Maybe if I position it cleverly and make a small cutout in the cocoon at just the right spot, this could work, as I have fairly easy access to the engine room outside of the engine cocoon. Maybe this is a wild new use for webcams we've been discussing in other threads...

Click to expand...

I was thinking camera when I wrote that, and anything that gets a camera into the ER is a good thing. The John Deere engine in the 55-foot trawler I delivered in Mar-Apr had a very heavy duty style sight gauge which was designed to be read while operating the engine. If you have a sump drain hose plumbed into the engine's drain plug like a lot of boats do, you can simply tee off that line to the sight gauge and with flex hose get it sited where you need to see the level at rest or maybe while operating.

FF said:

No problem, except pan has to be removed to fit measuring device.


The L129 Series Lube Level Swichgage instrument is a combination lube level indicating gauge and adjustable low and high limit switches. It provides protection against low oil level or high level caused by overfill or fuel or water seepage into the crankcase.

L129 Series | Murphy by Enovation Controls

Murphy has other systems that are easier to install.


When cruising we do our pre- start check just after engine shutdown, so if a rapid departure is ever needed , turn the key and GO!

Click to expand...

Thank you for the Murphy tips, FF! I was not aware of these products.

rgano said:

If you have a sump drain hose plumbed into the engine's drain plug like a lot of boats do, you can simply tee off that line to the sight gauge and with flex hose get it sited where you need to see the level at rest or maybe while operating.

Click to expand...

I do! I do! Thanks!!

A simpler and maybe cheaper approach is to lengthen the dipstick tube and dipstick.
The tube can be a section of oil compatible hose and the stick can be steel cable.
A small access port could be cut to avoid lifting the whole floor section to check it.

KnotYet said:

A simpler and maybe cheaper approach is to lengthen the dipstick tube and dipstick.
The tube can be a section of oil compatible hose and the stick can be steel cable.
A small access port could be cut to avoid lifting the whole floor section to check it.

Click to expand...

Interesting idea, KnotYet! Hadn't thought of that one either.
Thank you!

ScottC said:

Interesting idea, KnotYet! Hadn't thought of that one either.
Thank you!

Click to expand...

Cars and trucks have used cable as a dipstick for a long time.
With a pipe nipple on the free end of the extension hose you can just
cap it between oil level checks and store the cable dipstick nearby, too.

How about a motorized hatch lift. Make it easier to get into the er.

Some cars have an electronic oil level sensor that check oil level before you start the engine, you may look at retrofitting this in your boat.

L

Allison transmissions self monitor fluid levels and there is an Allison guy in iRV2 sister site to TF that really knows his stuff.
You might query him how Allison monitors levels.
He is known as Allisonman
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4327474

The ER is the classroom...

A couple boat buddies had similar ER access problems with their Krogen Manatees. They "invested" in ER hatch modifications that joined 2 or 3 separate panels into 1 rigid panel, then hinged it and added gas shocks to make it easier to life. They were both satisfied with the modification and improved ER access.

I go to the ER ~2-3 hours underway, or immediately if I see, hear, smell or feel a change I do not recognize. I would never want to tempt myself with "I wonder what that was..., oh well, too much of a pain to open the ER..."

On my ER visits, I have discovered several variances before they became problems. I have also tightened my understanding of normal systems operations, and been able to trouble shoot performance underway, then affect and confirm changes later. One example: tweaked my alternators & regulators to have proper battery charge profiles while also de-rating my alternators ~20%. Great performance, less wear and heat.

Especially with a new-to-me boat, the ER is the classroom.

I've never tried it, but I wonder how well a Maretron pressure transducer would work, teed into the drain plug somehow? With the engine off, I expect it would work flawlessly. But running, there might be too much splashing and pulsing. But there are a variety of smoothing settings for the data, so it may very well work. Now I'm thinking I might try it on my boat....

What about having the carpet cut and bound around the hatch? It would remove 1 step in the process.

Comodave said:

What about having the carpet cut and bound around the hatch? It would remove 1 step in the process.

Click to expand...

That is a very logical suggestion, Comodave. I have thus far tried to avoid that because it would create a mind-numbing jigsaw puzzle of little pieces of carpet around the perimeter of the hatch location. Still, I have not ruled this option out yet.

The pictures below better explain my situation. I probably should have included them at the start of this thread! You can see the oil dipstick in the last picture in the upper right corner (Orange loop).


You can see that I have to take all the carpet up. What you can't see is that I have to take all the cushions off all the sofas in order to raise the hatch too. While traveling, this is an awful task, as you know how clutter tends to accumulate.... These photos were taken at the beginning of the season. B.C. (Before Clutter).

twistedtree said:

I've never tried it, but I wonder how well a Maretron pressure transducer would work, teed into the drain plug somehow? With the engine off, I expect it would work flawlessly. But running, there might be too much splashing and pulsing. But there are a variety of smoothing settings for the data, so it may very well work. Now I'm thinking I might try it on my boat....

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, TwistedTree. I'll read up on this on Maretron's website. I wasn't aware of these products. First thing that has me scratching my head, though, is the "pressure" bit. I wouldn't think there should be any pressure to measure in the oil pan/dipstick tube. I will have to read up, as this is an area with which I have no familiarity.

Knot Fast said:

A couple boat buddies had similar ER access problems with their Krogen Manatees. They "invested" in ER hatch modifications that joined 2 or 3 separate panels into 1 rigid panel, then hinged it and added gas shocks to make it easier to life. They were both satisfied with the modification and improved ER access.

I go to the ER ~2-3 hours underway, or immediately if I see, hear, smell or feel a change I do not recognize. I would never want to tempt myself with "I wonder what that was..., oh well, too much of a pain to open the ER..."

On my ER visits, I have discovered several variances before they became problems. I have also tightened my understanding of normal systems operations, and been able to trouble shoot performance underway, then affect and confirm changes later. One example: tweaked my alternators & regulators to have proper battery charge profiles while also de-rating my alternators ~20%. Great performance, less wear and heat.

Especially with a new-to-me boat, the ER is the classroom.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Knot Fast!


You guys, with all your REAL engine rooms make me so jealous...

Bacchus said:

Allison transmissions self monitor fluid levels and there is an Allison guy in iRV2 sister site to TF that really knows his stuff.
You might query him how Allison monitors levels.
He is known as Allisonman
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4327474

Click to expand...

Thank you, Bacchus! I'll have a look!

ScottC said:

Thanks for the tip, TwistedTree. I'll read up on this on Maretron's website. I wasn't aware of these products. First thing that has me scratching my head, though, is the "pressure" bit. I wouldn't think there should be any pressure to measure in the oil pan/dipstick tube. I will have to read up, as this is an area with which I have no familiarity.

Click to expand...

The pressure, as measured at the bottom of any tank, tells you the "weight" of the water column above it, and hence how deep the fluid level is. But it only measures what's above the sensor, so the sensor needs to be at or below the tank bottom. That's why you would need to install it off the drain plug, like you would install plumbing for an oil change system.


I'm quite confident it would work with the engine off. But unclear with the engine running. Ski pointed out that there is lots of sloshing of oil, not to mention crankcase pressure from combustion, all of which will cause the pressure reading to dance around. I just don't know how much, nor whether the "averaging" capability in the sensor can filter that out. Fuel sloshes around too, and this pressure sensor approach works great for fuel - I know that first hand. In fact I think it's the best level monitoring you can get. But oil level sensing is an intriguing application. I'd love to be able to monitor engine oil level on extended runs where the engine never gets shut down for days on end.

Scott- Is that the only access to the engine compartment? You mentioned a "cocoon". Sounds like it completely boxed in so you really don't have an engine "room". Do you have access to the sides of the box? You could cut out panels in the sides of the box and install plastic hatches.

They really made engine access fun with that design!!!

I think I see the yellow tipped dipstick on the top of the motor. You probably could shorten the tube and stick then access it from one of those hatches.

Hate it when boat builders bury the engines.

Many here in the states have the carpet cut and bound around engine hatches, then cover the whole area with a throw rug.

caltexflanc said:

I can't agree more. In fact I like going in every hour or two while on long passages, sniffing around and taking temperature readings. An ER setup as described in the OP is completely unacceptable to me.

Andy what about coolant and transmission oil levels too in addition to a number of other "preflight" checks?

Click to expand...

+1

I'd argue that there are more important reasons than engine oil level requiring an ER check on a regular basis.

ScottC said:

That is a very logical suggestion, Comodave. I have thus far tried to avoid that because it would create a mind-numbing jigsaw puzzle of little pieces of carpet around the perimeter of the hatch location. Still, I have not ruled this option out yet.

The pictures below better explain my situation. I probably should have included them at the start of this thread! You can see the oil dipstick in the last picture in the upper right corner (Orange loop).


You can see that I have to take all the carpet up. What you can't see is that I have to take all the cushions off all the sofas in order to raise the hatch too. While traveling, this is an awful task, as you know how clutter tends to accumulate.... These photos were taken at the beginning of the season. B.C. (Before Clutter).

Click to expand...

The Greenline boats have some really cool features but whoever designed the access to the engine on that boat should be shot.


HOLLYWOOD

IIRC US boats have a composite floor, no table, and no “cocoon” with easy access to all systems. I haven’t been on one in about a year but that’s my recollection. Doesn’t help in this situation, but others should know that the current US boats are not configured like this.