Live aboard haters

I have been looking into living aboard, but is finding out marinas don’t like live aboards . Why is that? I m new to boating an it will take me some time before I m able to cruise full time.

Varies by Marina, but no shortage in FL.
Mine charges an extra $200 a month for the additional services, which seems fair to me. About 25% of boats at my Marina are live aboards.

Pretty much most of the marinas up this way are happy to have liveaboards.

Where are you seeing the hatred specifically?

It only takes one bad Apple to spoil the whole barrel. Four out of five liveaboards look like every other boat in the marina but that 5th one is usually a blue tarp special with bikes and plants all over it. Boat hasn’t been washed or left the dock for years, there is a collection of derelict dingys around it and the owner has three broken down cars in the parking lot. Not to mention this same person keeps throwing tenant rights Complaints at the port manager. Same individual is probably pumping black water at night and has a barking dog that defecates on the dock regularly.

tiltrider1 said:

It only takes one bad Apple to spoil the whole barrel. Four out of five liveaboards look like every other boat in the marina but that 5th one is usually a blue tarp special with bikes and plants all over it. Boat hasn’t been washed or left the dock for years, there is a collection of derelict dingys around it and the owner has three broken down cars in the parking lot. Not to mention this same person keeps throwing tenant rights Complaints at the port manager. Same individual is probably pumping black water at night and has a barking dog that defecates on the dock regularly.

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Didn't know we were in the same marina....I think that guys name is Jack.

What tiltrider1 says. And more. Then you have the self appointed watch dogs who think liveaboards are getting away with something for free. And in the state of Washington regulators think liveaboards are an unnecessary additional source of pollution. And the revenue department thinks liveabords are escaping paying taxes. In my opinion marinas are tired of fighting the battle and just limit or shutdown liveaboards.



Me? I think responsible liveaboards, which are the majority, are a benefit to the marina and community. And I like the lifestyle. I've livedaboard for 5 different multi year stretches. I moved ashore again about 18 months ago and probably won't liveaboard in Washington state again.

Yeah Jack's the guy, and that dog of his pee's on my dock lines every time he hits the docks!

What marina is it ?

What marina is it ? Where in Fl

Certainly agree with tiltrider, most Marina's have one or two as stated.

Personally I prefer a marina with a number of liveaboards scattered evenly throughout, to keep an eye on things developing, issues with my boat and basic security, and always make a point to get to know them.
They usually have tools to borrow, advice to give, and often more friendly than the random boat user, offering to grab a line when berthing etc.

I like to have some liveaboards around when we kept our boat in a marina. They were the security guards because they knew what was normal. But there are some like Jack that screw it up for everyone. We had a liveaboard in California that was next to our boat. It was nice, if I had a delivery he would open the boat and accept the delivery for me. He also like to make some cash on the side so he would wash our boat fo us. The dock master hated him and was constantly asking me to complain about him so he could build a file to evict him from the marina. I always said no that he was a good neighbor. Not sure exactly why he hated him but he did.

By regulation, liveaboards here are limited to ten percent of the berths. Not wanting marinas as a major source of low-cost housing verses recreational boating, and, I suppose, to reduce black-water pollution from those not paying for pump-out service or wanting to move their boats to the local pumps.

Here, liveaboards are good neighbors.

Hint: being a transient is not a "liveaboard."

Portage_Bay said:

What tiltrider1 says. And more. Then you have the self appointed watch dogs who think liveaboards are getting away with something for free. And in the state of Washington regulators think liveaboards are an unnecessary additional source of pollution. And the revenue department thinks liveabords are escaping paying taxes. In my opinion marinas are tired of fighting the battle and just limit or shutdown liveaboards. ...

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Here, boat owners pay property taxes on their boats, and in my municipal marina, property taxes on their rented berths. Just like having a "dirt" home. If wanting to avoid paying taxes, live in a "mobile-home" development.

A few reasons why marina managers are careful about liveaboards.

1. Regulatory. As stated by markpierce, in some areas such as San Francisco Bay, there are governmental restrictions.

2. Cheap living isn't cool. Marinas often coincide with expensive real estate (again, San Francisco). Someone looking for cheap housing is not a great value proposition to a marina. Owner's often compromise condition for size and expense (ergo the blue-tarp comment on a previous post).

3. Clutter. Many people do not adapt well to the space constraints. Exhibit 1 are the cars and vans parked in a parking lot that are fulled to the brim with belongings and haven't moved in months. It's annoying when you can't find a decent parking space. And then there are the rusting carcasses of bikes, etc. Or every shower stall is filled with liveaboards. List goes on.

Marina managers are in charge of developing and managing the ambiance at their marina. Too many liveaboards and it becomes a low-rent trailer park that is not attractive to day-sailors.

I've lived in a couple marinas that did not allow liveaboards, but I didn't move in as a liveaboard. I got to know the harbor master first and eventually asked for permission. I remember one such conversation at Treasure Island when it was still under Navy control: "Peter, if you were to ask, I'd have to say 'no.' So my recommendation is for you to not ask." Classic military response! Had I tried to fly under the radar, he would have figured it out quickly and booted me to the curb.

Peter

The marina I stay at in Florida is part of a country club. The lease you sign gives the club express permission to remove your boat if the appearance committee decides your boat isn't in keeping with their high standards, and they've done it. At one point they were going to throw the few sailboats out as they felt the mast spreaders attracted birds that crapped on boats. Cooler heads prevailed. But you will never hear a halyard slapping an aluminum mast in that marina. All in all, it's a very nice clean place with well cared for boats owned by friendly people. Probably less than 10% are liveaboard.

Ted

Basmith1971 said:

What marina is it ? Where in Fl

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It's not about a specific marina but very many along the East Coast...

markpierce said:

Here, boat owners pay property taxes on their boats, and in my municipal marina, property taxes on their rented berths. Just like having a "dirt" home. If wanting to avoid paying taxes, live in a "mobile-home" development.

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Washington State are taxed on the boat as well. The taxes I referred to in my earlier post are what the state sees as missing out on waterfront home property tax. In addition to the tax on the boat they are trying to pass a law that will tax liveabords for the "waterfront" they occupy. Nonsense, the marina is already paying property taxes.

mvweebles said:

A few reasons why marina managers are careful about liveaboards.

1. Regulatory. As stated by markpierce, in some areas such as San Francisco Bay, there are governmental restrictions.

2. Cheap living isn't cool. Marinas often coincide with expensive real estate (again, San Francisco). Someone looking for cheap housing is not a great value proposition to a marina. Owner's often compromise condition for size and expense (ergo the blue-tarp comment on a previous post).

3. Clutter. Many people do not adapt well to the space constraints. Exhibit 1 are the cars and vans parked in a parking lot that are fulled to the brim with belongings and haven't moved in months. It's annoying when you can't find a decent parking space. And then there are the rusting carcasses of bikes, etc. Or every shower stall is filled with liveaboards. List goes on.

Marina managers are in charge of developing and managing the ambiance at their marina. Too many liveaboards and it becomes a low-rent trailer park that is not attractive to day-sailors.

I've lived in a couple marinas that did not allow liveaboards, but I didn't move in as a liveaboard. I got to know the harbor master first and eventually asked for permission. I remember one such conversation at Treasure Island when it was still under Navy control: "Peter, if you were to ask, I'd have to say 'no.' So my recommendation is for you to not ask." Classic military response! Had I tried to fly under the radar, he would have figured it out quickly and booted me to the curb.

Peter

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Every bit of what you say about "low rent" liveaboards is true. Regarding the don't ask approach. That used to work at some marinas around here if you kept a low profile in terms of your points 1 to 3. Not so much now with the state being on the war path against liveaboards marina managers are left with little choice but to chase liveaboards out. And it isn't just boats the govt is after. Seattle's famous floating homes came under fire not too many years ago.

tiltrider1 said:

It only takes one bad Apple to spoil the whole barrel. Four out of five liveaboards look like every other boat in the marina but that 5th one is usually a blue tarp special with bikes and plants all over it. Boat hasn’t been washed or left the dock for years, there is a collection of derelict dingys around it and the owner has three broken down cars in the parking lot. Not to mention this same person keeps throwing tenant rights Complaints at the port manager. Same individual is probably pumping black water at night and has a barking dog that defecates on the dock regularly.

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Right on the $$ at every marina on the West Coast.

A lot of people were buying $2000.00 22 foot + junk sail boats and living on them for the cheap rent. Everett had a few more than other places and now there is no longer even a wait list for a live aboard slip.

tiltrider1 said:

It only takes one bad Apple to spoil the whole barrel. Four out of five liveaboards look like every other boat in the marina but that 5th one is usually a blue tarp special with bikes and plants all over it. Boat hasn’t been washed or left the dock for years, there is a collection of derelict dingys around it and the owner has three broken down cars in the parking lot. Not to mention this same person keeps throwing tenant rights Complaints at the port manager. Same individual is probably pumping black water at night and has a barking dog that defecates on the dock regularly.

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There's always one in every marina.

There are many avid boaters who simply want to live the boating lifestyle full time. We live on our boat 6 months of the year. We take the boat out as much as we possibly can (Time (work) and weather permitting). Our boat is tidy and almost always ready to run.

We have been in marinas where there are people who are one tick above homeless. They manage to buy themselves a boat barely above a derelict and live on that because it is cheaper than renting an apartment. Crap everywhere on the boat and often a crapalanche spilling out to the dock. Get two or three together on the same dock, and it's a perpetual 'ghetto party'. Not Awesome. We've actually left a marina because of this situation.

Basmith1971 said:

I have been looking into living aboard, but is finding out marinas don’t like live aboards . Why is that? I m new to boating an it will take me some time before I m able to cruise full time.

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You might want to consider your wording. Your title was "Live aboard haters" and then you said "marinas don't like live aboards." Both are misrepresentative of the situation. Some marinas don't allow live aboards, others restrict the number. Then the smart ones that if you call our of nowhere and they don't know you, they'll say no. If they get to meet you and see your boat and you're an early stage cruiser they'll welcome you.

They face the problem of derelict or otherwise bad liveaboards who are not boaters at all, not employed so sit around all day drinking. Poor neighbors. Very difficult to get rid of too once allowed in. This is in sharp contrast to the full time liveaboard who also cruises a little but mostly looks after the marina and others there.

All liveaboards are not the same, nor are all marinas. I've seen marinas where a few retired liveaboards make things very nice. I've also seen marinas with frat boys....correction wanna be frat boys as they all flunked out...using their boat as a party boat and disturbing all others or nearly homeless who came upon a cheap boat and can pay the slip fee with their SSI and don't pump out, leave trash around, drink beer all day, curse when kids are around and make everyone uncomfortable with their behavior.

In South Florida, there are plenty of marinas that will welcome liveaboards.

Basmith1971 said:

I have been looking into living aboard, but is finding out marinas don’t like live aboards . Why is that? I m new to boating an it will take me some time before I m able to cruise full time.

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So many good replies in this thread. If you end up dealing with a marina that indicates they "don't like live aboards" (but do not have a policy prohibiting them), send them this article:

https://48north.com/news/theres-a-fire-in-the-marina/

As live aboards, we have saved boats in the marina during storms in the middle of the night, reported fuel spills, continuous running bilge pumps, electrical outages, etc. Some of which would have gone unchecked until the next day with potentially disastrous consequences. They like us around here!

A true boater who loves the boating lifestyle can be a blessing for a marina. We watch the docks. We notify management when repairs are needed. We watch peoples boats for them. We are the unofficial dock hands and are at the ready with a line when you're coming in. We help new boaters with experience. We're there to lend a tool or a hand. We use our boats and our boats are neat, tidy, clean and in generally good repair (there is always a project, isn't there?). When wind kicks up, we take care of people's lines, fenders, etc.

IMHO your best bet....rent a slip, keep the boat clean and tidy. Be friendly. Use the boat. Use YOUR resources (Head, shower, etc). Park in different spots in the yard, and in particular, don't constantly occupy the best parking spots in the lot. People notice obvious patterns. Nobody notices who is on vacation and who is not. Some people boat on weekdays and work weekends, while others weekends only. Some people have swing shifts (Police, Fire Dept, Nurses, and their schedules change. In other words, there are always people on the docks. Most people don't really 'police' your time. Don't bring attention to yourself. If you are a 'good marina samaritan' and you're not an eye sore......by teh time they realize you live aboard, they usually just ignore it. However, if you are an eye sore or a problem, or a delinquent, they will use the policy (official or unofficial) to ask you to leave.

Unfortunately, in my experience, there are just too many liveaboards that are a thorn in the marina managers side to leave a good taste.

Sure, some marinas liveaboards are welcome, but my close association with more than a few marina managers suggest most boaters are a PIA, liveabords even more so.

psneeld said:

Unfortunately, in my experience, there are just too many liveaboards that are a thorn in the marina managers side to leave a good taste.

Sure, some marinas liveaboards are welcome, but my close association with more than a few marina managers suggest most boaters are a PIA, liveabords even more so.

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When I first brought my sailboat into the marina I'm in now, I found a former high school classmate was living on board his 40' Beneteau. It was great for me as he did call me a couple times when he noticed issues with my boat.


However, he didn't last that long. From friends of his, I found he had been kicked out of a number of marina's over the years just for being a PITA.

psneeld said:

Unfortunately, in my experience, there are just too many liveaboards that are a thorn in the marina managers side to leave a good taste.

Sure, some marinas liveaboards are welcome, but my close association with more than a few marina managers suggest most boaters are a PIA, liveabords even more so.

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Dealing with so many different personalities on a frequent basis is always going to be challenging, and as a marina manager you have the business side weighing in against the will and expectation of the various tenants, and trying to keep things balanced and in perspective.
If there is a big wait list for berths you can be more selective of course, but if you are struggling to find tenants to keep a positive cash flow, you may have to compromise.
Non boaters, down on their luck looking for low cost housing options are of course going to be a big challenge for all the reasons previously stated, often recently divorced, substance abusing and in a poor frame of mind.
On the other end of the spectrum, loud, wealthy, self righteous, pompous gits demanding the world needs to stop and give into their demands can also ruin your day

dhays said:

When I first brought my sailboat into the marina I'm in now, I found a former high school classmate was living on board his 40' Beneteau. It was great for me as he did call me a couple times when he noticed issues with my boat.


However, he didn't last that long. From friends of his, I found he had been kicked out of a number of marina's over the years just for being a PITA.

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I remember a pedantic/obsessive guy who had just retired from a fairly high flying position, moved onboard, obviously got bored quickly and tried rallying the marina tenants into forming a “tenants association” to meet with the marina owners once a month to discuss the issues and future direction of the marina, requiring a daily meeting with the manager to run over things

Like I mentioned in the other post, sometimes folks can be a little challenging

From my personal relationships with marina owners and managers...too many boaters want a good deal and constantly pressure managers past their point of caring.

In fact many people I know in the marine fields tend to dislike boaters in general after about 5 or so years dealing with them.

Just way too much "me first" mentality.

psneeld said:

In fact many people I know in the marine fields tend to dislike boaters in general after about 5 or so years dealing with them.

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After about 5 years (of age) I felt that way about most people.