Flare Disposal

Finally! This seems like a good idea.
https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indu...EYGg&utm_content=91436339&utm_source=hs_email

I used to have this same flare disposal problem in Sweden. I solved it by telling the marine store where I buy my flares that I would only place my $200 flare order with them if they took my old flares back. Miraculously, they said yeah, we’ll send them in one of our shipments of old stock back to the manufacturer. They do this every time for me.

Nice idea but it will be so limited in areas that it won’t be much use to the majority of boaters. Too bad this isn’t like Sweden...

If you can find any campers, RVers that like campfires the normal hand held flares make great fire starters.
The orange smoke ones... not so much!

Subscribed. Been wondering why I am storing flares I would never have time to use.

Bacchus said:

If you can find any campers, RVers that like campfires the normal hand held flares make great fire starters.
The orange smoke ones... not so much!

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And hope that rocket/parachute flares don’t get mixed up in the bunch going to to the campers!
Seriously, aren’t there a zillion regulations about lighting emergency flares in anything other than an emergency?

ScottC said:

Seriously, aren’t there a zillion regulations about lighting emergency flares in anything other than an emergency?

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I'm sure you are correct and as usual LEO can quote all kinds of regs re what you can't do!
But they dont have a clue what you Can do to get rid of them?
Maybe BoatUS can lobby to make it a requirement that anyone selling flares HAS to take old ones in for proper disposal. And likely disposal will only cost the the same as purchasing new!

If it works in Florida the program can be expanded nation wide. The incinerator would show up at every major boat show so you just save up your flares until you go to a boat show. It might not help everyone but I think a lot of boaters would take advantage of it.

A camper lighting a campfire with a flare isn't even remotely going to be setting off an emergency device. No one will know it is anything but a road flare.

Obviously you don't use a smoke or aerial flare.

I have done it countless times, never an issue. Even the occasional orange smoke is gone long before any LEOs show up unless they have a cruiser in the neighborhood.

A possibility is each Sea Tow franchise buys a proper storage container and stores them till the incinerator makes its rounds. I see it very doable if the grant is enough to make it work.

Here's a better idea--several times in the past few years our club (meaning ME!) set up a Flare Disposal/Demo Day. I picked a location on the bank of the Columbia River, set the date, notified the CG, local fire and police and printed up fliers to post in the boat stores and sporting goods stores. The fire dept even had an ambulance on standby at our location in case of an injury.

It was done in the day time and we had buckets of water to dispose of the flares that had been shot off.

Each of the Demo Days was attended by about 50-75 people and each time we shot off around 250 flares of all shapes, sizes and types. I kept track of the flare types that failed most often and it was the small, hand held flares where you pull the string to ignite it.

It's good PR for your club if you have a club and a good time was had by all who attended.

.....its a different idea...not necessarily better as there are lots of folks that just aren't always around for flare days or know of them.

GFC said:

Here's a better idea--several times in the past few years our club (meaning ME!) set up a Flare Disposal/Demo Day. I picked a location on the bank of the Columbia River, set the date, notified the CG, local fire and police and printed up fliers to post in the boat stores and sporting goods stores. The fire dept even had an ambulance on standby at our location in case of an injury.

It was done in the day time and we had buckets of water to dispose of the flares that had been shot off.

Each of the Demo Days was attended by about 50-75 people and each time we shot off around 250 flares of all shapes, sizes and types. I kept track of the flare types that failed most often and it was the small, hand held flares where you pull the string to ignite it.

It's good PR for your club if you have a club and a good time was had by all who attended.

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It is a great idea. The CG in San Diego used to take them for disposal but then 9/11 happened and they didn’t want anyone bringing any kind of explosive onto the station. The nice thing about a flare day is that people get to experience setting one off. Most people have never done that so this is a good training event. One caution is that you probably should not use any that are beyond 5 years of their expiration date. According to the CG they are not as stable and there have been incidents where people got hurt using them. How many incidents, they never said but they would not allow them on an Auxiliary facility beyond 5 years out of date.

This program by Tow Boat is fine as are all of the flare disposal "fairs" setup by local clubs with the USCG's concurrence. All means of disposal are needed to attack the massive numbers of old flares out there. Also fine is disposing of these things in safe areas during the daytime by requiring crew members unfamiliar with the procedure to light up the handheld ones and even shot the aerial ones if only into a pile of dirt just to get the feel of it.

Better to have an outdated flare that might not work even if one has current flares? More the better?

markpierce said:

Better to have an outdated flare that might not work even if one has current flares? More the better?

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I share that sentiment, though I've heard tell of overly aggressive 'safety inspections' citing you for violations if they find ANY expired ones on board. I sort of get why, because they don't want someone in an emergency situation finding anything other than un-expired items.

wkearney99 said:

I share that sentiment, though I've heard tell of overly aggressive 'safety inspections' citing you for violations if they find ANY expired ones on board. I sort of get why, because they don't want someone in an emergency situation finding anything other than un-expired items.

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I have heard this before but have never seen a reference to an actual regulation that states that...
Can you provide a reference??
psneeld... Any truth or just a dock talk myth?

I believe there have been suggestions made to separate outdated and current flares.

The laws state what you must have, not what you can't have on your boat. As long as you can meet the law....anything beyond a suggestion seems pretty hollow. I have never heard of a violation by a Coastie.

Now other Leo's? Who knows, they might write a ticket, but I would think it is easily beat in court. If you keep flares separate and only show the required ones...how would they know you have expired ones? I guess there could be local or state laws that prevent the carrying of expired flares, but I have never heard of them.

As far as USCGAUX.....too many personal and second hand stories of "opinion" overriding what is and isnt the law or even generally accepted good practices.

psneeld said:

I

As far as USCGAUX.....too many personal and second hand stories of "opinion" overriding what is and isnt the law or even generally accepted good practices.

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Thanks for confirming.
As far as USCGAUX... That's an understatement. How well we know!

We just use the 4th of July for "training" using up expired flares.

You can just drop them on a campfire. They burn but not violently. If you do it at night the smoke grenades are not visible.

Do not burn launch able flares, like those fired from a flare gun.

pete

I have a rotation scheme going. I keep most of the current flares in my ditch bag and the rest of the current flares in an aft cockpit storage compartment. I keep the previous set of flares in the aft cockpit storage as well because, like others have mentioned, it seems like a good idea to have them as possibly-working backup. When it's time to replace the "current set", I do the shuffle and the very oldest set is disposed of.


I read in another thread in this forum that one should not keep a flare for more than 5 years beyond its expiration date due to risk of it exploding (or something like that) on the user. With flares having a "life span" of about 3 years here in Sweden, my expired back-up set should never be more than 3 years beyond the expiration date. Nevertheless, it's good to be aware of that 5 year caution.

We have "Svenska Kryssarklubben" (The Swedish Cruising Club) here in Sweden www.sxk.se Probably 75% of the members are sailors, but also excellent for motorboat owners. There are regional divisions spread around the country plus a Mediterranean division (!!). All divisions are very active and every spring, they host a variety of activities/classes/open houses and the like covering safety topics:

- Inflatable life vest check and component replacement
- CPR and Defibrillator training
- Life raft demonstration and instruction
- "Q&A" meeting with representatives from the coast guard

Anyway, I mention the above because this discussion has inspired me to suggest to the SXK that they add flare instruction and flare disposal facilitation to their annual routine. There probably will wind up being too many bureaucratic hurdles for this to become a reality, but I think it's worth a try.

I haven't done anything with marine focus in the States in the long time, but aren't there national "clubs" that could also consider helping with annual flare disposal? US Power Squadrons, for example??

Virginia does mention "not expired"

https://dwr.virginia.gov/boating/wog/equipment-regulations/

Maryland also mentions not expired:

https://dnr.maryland.gov/boating/Documents/recreationvessels.pdf

The safety checks likewise mention expired as a potential reason for not passing. (though that's a completely optional process, not regulatory)

https://www.lhboats.com/blog-vessel-safety-checks-for-boating-anglers.html

Now, do any of these mean the presence of them on the boat is a problem while there are also non-expired ones on the same vessel? I'd venture an overzealous LEO could flip the coin either way.

A USCG pamphlet does mention:

Expired signals may be carried as extra equipment, but cannot be counted toward meeting the visual distress signal requirement.

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In the spirit of the USGC's guidance, I keep the 'most recently expired' ones in a forward locker, along with some emergency plugs/bungs and heavy weather rain gear. Any others that are older I've taken to the county's landfill hazardous materials drop-off.

I realize to meet state and fed equip reqmts that pyrotechnics must not be expired.
I was asking to see ANY reference that said you can not carry expired ones and I dont see it yet.
In fact the USCG statement clearly says its OK and doesnt even put a time limit on it. I would be very surprised if s state reg disagrees w USCG.
Can someone misinterpret the regs... certainly but I doubt it would stand up.
Still dock talk myth IMO but will stay open minded if shown differently.

WE simply anchor in LI Sound in front of the coasties and inform them we will bre doing crew training for 30 min.


Never a hassle , but don't ask them tell them.

It is my understanding from the USCG that you must have the required number of unexpired flares (sorry, signalling devices) on board. You can have expired devices on board, but they must be stored separately from the unexpired devices and clearly marked "EXPIRED" either on the device itself or the container that holds them.

Having an electronic visual signalling device in good order eliminates the pyrotechnic device requirement, although you can have both on board. In those cases, the expiration date limit becomes moot.

wkearney99 said:

I share that sentiment, though I've heard tell of overly aggressive 'safety inspections' citing you for violations if they find ANY expired ones on board. I sort of get why, because they don't want someone in an emergency situation finding anything other than un-expired items.

Click to expand...

having been stranded 30+ miles offshore in a situation where I needed flares, I would welcome this "confrontation". Of the two packs of pistol flares, one expired and one pack not expired, 3/4 of the expired pack worked and only ONE of the un-expired pack worked! Both packs were new in the package and kept in an air-tight container, so the new ones should have all worked. After this I ALWAYS keep the most recent expired flares on board. No way you can have too many when you *really* need them.

I love the idea of a flare day at the local Yacht Club, but now I take my old flares to the hunting camp where the land owners use them after hunting season to set fires after clearing timber.

Once in a while, our USCG Auxiliary and the fire department host a boating safety program. During the program, we are allowed to shoot off our old flares. Maybe your city would like to host such an event.

Well I told my wife this 4th of July that it was illegal to fire off flares unless there was an emergency. Something I have never done. But, my fairly new to me 30 year old boat has a zillion expired flares all perfectly marked. I told her, if others start firing their flares, I will also and I guaranteed her that someone would. No one did. I was pleasantly surprised. Yet there were plenty of illegal personal fireworks. Go figure.

markpierce said:

Better to have an outdated flare that might not work even if one has current flares? More the better?

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I bought my first boat, and flares to go along with it, in the late 1970s. If I had not found a way to dispose of expired flares at some point, I would be buried in them! So, it may not hurt to have a few expired flares around, but there comes a point where more is NOT better. Eventually you have to dispose of them.

The good news is that every county I have lived in, throughout my life, has had some sort of toxic waste disposal option. I have disposed of expired flares and disposable fire extinguishers (as well as things like paint, old gasoline, used oil, etc.) without any problems. Depending on what you bring, and how much of it you bring, they sometimes charge a couple of dollars.

It really is not all that difficult.