Selene Auction

The first and most important step to our next boat has been accomplished. Much to our surprise we sold our Tiara 44 Sovran a few weeks ago and are now beginning to move forward with the first steps of finalizing our retirement and the purchase of a live aboard trawler. We had not intended to seriously begin our search until after the first of the year due to Covid-19. A friend sent me this post for a Selene listed through a salvage company. This is definitely a boat on our list. According to the listing the boat was purchased new but was not ultimately accepted by the new owner due to the following:

The boat was purchased new and after taking delivery the owner noticed seeing "print through" the paint. Print through is when you can detect the fiberglass mat with your eye when looking at the boats hull. This boat was painted jade green and the mat can be seen through the outer layer of glass. The boat operates just fine and all systems seem to operate

Posting from salvage company. https://www.cooperss.com/asset-list.php?name=marine&id=2

I’m trying to understand what repairing the hull print through issues might entail and why a cosmetic issue was not resolved by Selene under warranty. Could this be an unrepairable hull molding issue? Any insight would be greatly appreciated

There must be more to the story than simple mat print through. It may not be that easy to fix, maybe tens of thousands to strip the paint, sand it down, spray on a new gel coat layer, and repaint.

I suspect the original gel coat layer was too thin or not enough filler to make it opaque.

But I can't believe that this wasn't resolved under warranty. There may have been a legal maneuver among the buyer, dealer and Selene that blew up and resulted in it going to salvage.

David

DavidM said:

There must be more to the story than simple mat print through. It may not be that easy to fix, maybe tens of thousands to strip the paint, sand it down, spray on a new gel coat layer, and repaint.

I suspect the original gel coat layer was too thin or not enough filler to make it opaque.

But I can't believe that this wasn't resolved under warranty. There may have been a legal maneuver among the buyer, dealer and Selene that blew up and resulted in it going to salvage.

David

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Yes, an odd story. I can understand the buyer not being happy, and forcing a resolution. For Selene, the work David describes above is a very expensive solution, although who knows whether in the long term avoiding reputation damage might have made it the best option.

But in the end I think someone just said 'thats why we pay insurance premiums'. The problem for the rest of us is that our premiums increase as a result of that kind of attitude.

I'd see it as a lifestyle facilitator rather than an irreplaceable piece of art such as a masterpiece by da Vinci. Someone could well get a pretty nice near-new boat for a bargain price. Depending on layup, for example polyester versus vinylester, it might just need a bit of prep, epoxy barrier coat and awlgrip spray. Not cheap, and a fix the new boat buyer can justly baulk at, but not a huge cost either. If it is to be used rather than be a dock queen trophy asset then inevitably it will accumulate wear & tear anyway.

Wow! Good thing that this is a bit out of my league, Opus, otherwise I'd be bidding against you! Sure looks like a fine vessel. Surprising they don't show any close-ups of the "print-through" issue. I've noticed print-through, over the years, on a number of production boats and it usually isn't horribly objectionable. Perhaps it is a lot more obvious on dark green?? Anyway, I think I would probably be happy to exchange a bit of print-through for a 75% discount

Selene indeed had some hulls that showed "mat thru" issues. I looked at one about 9 years ago. Without getting into details it was one of several with hull imperfection and layup issues that a plus 1M vessel should not have.

Any new built vessel, whether Selene or another brand will have issues that need to be resolved. A commissioned vessel will have survey and inspection points during the build process to hopefully catch these issues. A spec boat does not have that luxury and will sometimes get pushed out absent sufficient internal and new owner controls.

An auction boat should have a history whether insurance, full write off, owner rejection or bank repo. A where is as is auction without a proper survey and available history is too big a risk IMHO. With a good survey and prior history things may change a bit, but the vessel will always carry an asterisk.

Full disclosure, we came very close to buying a spec new built Selene. Had the sale gone ahead we'd have been quite happy.

Good luck.

Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?

menzies said:

Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?

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I was wondering the same thing.

Im not that pickey. Depending on what it actually sells for I would certainly be interested.

Maybe a full or partial "wrap" would be the answer. They are getting more and more popular these days.

pete

menzies said:

Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?

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From the FAQ page, it appears single bid only.

Something is missing from the story. Beautiful boat, I wouldn't be bothered by print through. If it was really bad it can be filled and painted.

As I see it, the manufacturing defect blew up the sale. The owner probably either walked away or insisted on a different boat. At that point, they put the boat up for auction. A savvy buyer (who happens to be a salvage company) buys it on speculation (and a deep discount) knowing that they can find a buyer for it. The factory can't sell it as new and he dealer doesn't want cash tied up sitting on the lot.

Just speculation on my part.

Why so many hours on it then?

I feel like I’ve heard fiberglass techs say that print through on a dark hull will happen over time. It may not have been this way at the factory, but resin continues to catalyze or cure and the sun hitting the dark hull will make it worse. There’s a difference between vinylester and polyester resins as well. I think I remember that polyester is cheaper and will continue to change versus vinylester. I wonder if the owner took delivery and after things were changing for the worse they pursued legal action. Either way, it could be a good boat for a new owner. Does the auction let you survey the rest of the boat and seatrial or do you buy it ‘as is’?

The boat is in a salvage yard. That information alone tells you there is a bigger issue. I wouldn’t bid sight un seen and unless you have surveyor skills I wouldn’t bid with out a survey. As mentioned already, why would Selene let a warranty issue end up here, they wouldn’t, and how did a boat end up with 700 hours. There is a lot more to this story and if it was good, it wouldn’t be in a salvage yard.

lwarden said:

Why so many hours on it then?

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Good observation--750+ hours is a fair amount of use.

You can see print through on almost any boat after a few years. The different materials shrink at different rates over time. This is true even of very high end construction. The (temporary) solution is to scuff, surface with a high build primer, block sand, then topcoat with Awlgrip or similar. But don't be surprised if, 5 years on, you see it again. Fiberglass isn't a stable material like metal - it is always moving a bit. A white boat hides it well, a dark color does not.

About $50-60K for a white paint job with some good primer and the print through wont show. The whole story doesn't make sense. Even though the boat looks great.
I would want to look very carefully for evidence on sinking.

Insequent said:

I'd see it as a lifestyle facilitator..... Someone could well get a pretty nice near-new boat for a bargain price. ..... it might just need a bit of prep, epoxy barrier coat and awlgrip spray.

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The minimum bid is listed at 450K, meaning that the salvage yard probably paid significantly less than than and would still make a profit at the low bid price. So they put it up for auction to see how much more they can make.

Bottom line for me would be to get it surveyed prior to the auction deadline, assuming an expert surveyor thinks it's worth considerably more, I would tender a bid above the minimum asking (my decision as to how much) and if successful I would have bought a potentially great boat at a rock bottom price! Print through is not that big a deal & if it's anything worse than that the surveyor will probably find it. The number of hours indicate that someone was running it successfully!

Conclusion: If I were in the market for this type of boat (long distance trawler) and had the financial backup to absorb a complete meltdown on it's condition, given the above, I would certainly take a chance!

If I was interested I would go directly to the folks at Selene. I am sure they are well aware of the history of this vessel. If they would share the info is another question though.

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

If I was interested I would go directly to the folks at Selene. I am sure they are well aware of the history of this vessel. If they would share the info is another question though.

pete

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Bingo...it's a recently built boat and I'd go to them in search of the true history of this boat. If the answer is that the bleed through happened after a good bit of use but was not something they could easily fix and boat couldn't be sold as new boat so their insurer paid for it and then sold it to salvage but that the boat operates fine, then go for it. If everyone is evasive and salvage company has no more detail, then proceed only knowing it's at your risk.

Oh Man, I just might go check this out! This vessel has just about everything!

If the back story is true, given the obvious nature of this defect I would be very suspicious of other hidden defects.

If you read down on the description, The owner took delivery of the vessel. The bleed was noticed, was repainted not to the owners satisfaction. The owner and his insurance company came to a settlement. The owner was paid by the insurance company for the vessel. Cooper is just the broker for the insurance company. They do not own the vessel. They are charging 12% added to your bid for this service. No survey is allowed, Full Payment is usually required in 48 to 72 hrs after the acceptance letter is signed within 24 hrs of your emailed notice of high bid accepted by the insurance company.

vacser said:

If you read down on the description, The owner took delivery of the vessel. The bleed was noticed, was repainted not to the owners satisfaction. The owner and his insurance company came to a settlement. The owner was paid by the insurance company for the vessel. Cooper is just the broker for the insurance company. They do not own the vessel. They are charging 12% added to your bid for this service. No survey is allowed, Full Payment is usually required in 48 to 72 hrs after the acceptance letter is signed within 24 hrs of your emailed notice of high bid accepted by the insurance company.

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All sounds great but I would have to verify it with someone other than the salvage company. Was the bleed the only problem? Why did the repainting not satisfy the owner? How did the boat perform? Were there other problems? Why was it owner and his insurer, did Selene and their insurer totally escape liability?

It is a beautiful boat. But that is why I like white boats.

I am just explaining how the process works and the stated facts given by Cooper. It is up to each individual bidder to do their own homework.

It's a 2017 boat. If it hasn't sunk by now I don't think the see-through hull is a show stopper. Obviously it didn't sink during the first 700 hours of operation. Guessing the PO owned a law firm.

Crusty Chief said:

Oh Man, I just might go check this out! This vessel has just about everything!

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Keep us posted if you do.
The Selene 47 is on my short list of boats I am interested in, BTW...

KnotYet said:

Keep us posted if you do.
The Selene 47 is on my short list of boats I am interested in, BTW...

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You really are tempting me. Got my feelers out on this one, she is set up very nice.

Cheers

Crusty Chief said:

You really are tempting me. Got my feelers out on this one, she is set up very nice.

Cheers

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It's one I'd want to find out everything I possibly could about and see. If there is no other negative, could be great. Just can't be sure without a lot of due diligence. And, I absolutely would not share my findings or make them public if I had any interest in buying it.