This can't be good

I believe this is live, happening at 1:00 p.m. PST. The ship is in San Diego. I haven't heard the name yet and can't see the ID number on the superstructure through all the smoke.

This is NOT a drill!!!!


Hope it turns out well..... but it's already a costly mistake.

That is one of our amphibious warfare carriers for landing Marines via helicopters and landing craft (assuming it has the well deck configuration). The smoke indicates a truly massive fire throughout lots of the ship. If they can save her from total destruction, it could be years putting her back in service.

It sure isn’t good particularly with the 11 sailors hurt. The fires on the USS Bonhomme Richard while it is dry dock.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-uss-bonhamme-richard-at-naval-base-san-diego

It's the Bonhomme Richard https://abcnews.go.com/US/11-sailors-injured-explosion-san-diego-naval-ship/story?id=71742603

Larry M said:

It sure isn’t good particularly with the 11 sailors hurt. The fires on the USS Bonhomme Richard while it is dry dock.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-uss-bonhamme-richard-at-naval-base-san-diego

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Not in dry dock but maybe under overhaul at the yard.

That has to be one of the most chilling sounds. Good they are not at sea, but still awful.

If they had been at sea and not in a yard where all sorts of hoses and cables prevent closing of many water- and fire-proof doors, the chances of snuffing out the fire would be much greater. Being in a yard, your crew is under constant turnover from transfers and off-ship schooling and leave. As a command duty officer (the officer in charge of the ship in port) in numerous ships, I was often in the position of denying requests from critical fire fighters in my duty section for special liberty off the ship. It was a constant challenge to be ready to fight fire and flooding. At sea, you have the full crew and the General Quarters button right at your elbow. The full crew knows every inch of the fire fighting apparatus, is organized to use it, and motivated. The Bonhomme Richard is likely now in the hands of some of her crew but quite possibly a bunch of shore-based fire fighters who do not know her so well.

Cutting or welding by yard personnel. That is the usual cause.
Now we have to figure out who was responsible for posting the fire watches and were they stationed on both sides of the bulkhead.
Next, proximity to fuel tanks and fuel lines. Type of fuel in the nearby tanks, levels too.
Flammable material nearby.
What type and how much fire fighting equipment was at the scene. Again, both sides of the bulkhead. Finally, the damage control training of the fire watches and first responders and how many minutes passed before the first attack of the casualty, with what equipment.

rgano said:

If they had been at sea and not in a yard where all sorts of hoses and cables prevent closing of many water- and fire-proof doors, the chances of snuffing out the fire would be much greater.

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I was thinking that might be the case. While it would have been much, much worse at sea, the cause may have been something that was only occurring because they were tied up. Your post puts details and experience to it.

I saw the smoke today from Mission Bay where we were messing around. It was a massive smoke cloud, I thought Tijuana was on fire...

The news reported an explosion before the fire. Don’t know much more about it.

Rich, I wondered about the firefighters from "Federal Fire". Outside contractors?

rgano said:

If they had been at sea and not in a yard where all sorts of hoses and cables prevent closing of many water- and fire-proof doors, the chances of snuffing out the fire would be much greater. Being in a yard, your crew is under constant turnover from transfers and off-ship schooling and leave. As a command duty officer (the officer in charge of the ship in port) in numerous ships, I was often in the position of denying requests from critical fire fighters in my duty section for special liberty off the ship. It was a constant challenge to be ready to fight fire and flooding. At sea, you have the full crew and the General Quarters button right at your elbow. The full crew knows every inch of the fire fighting apparatus, is organized to use it, and motivated. The Bonhomme Richard is likely now in the hands of some of her crew but quite possibly a bunch of shore-based fire fighters who do not know her so well.

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Reported only 180 navy personnel on board at the time.
That no doubt contributed to the poor initial response.

I used to work in a shipyard on submarine overhauls. Yep, skeleton Navy crew on board, lots of welding leads and hoses and various cables running through compartment hatch openings. Many systems out of service for work. Everyone takes fire safety very serious, but the ship is in a real vulnerable state.

There were rules where anything routed through a compartment hatch had to have quick connects nearby so the hatch could be closed somewhat quickly, but that is of little use when things go bad fast and yard crew scatters for self preservation. They don't have the same priorities as the Navy crew when at sea.

180 out of a 1000-person crew aboard in a weekend duty section while in the yard is not out of line with normal peacetime policies. Consider that there may be as many as six duty sections and a goodly number of personnel at training schools and others who are not assigned to regular duty sections. My guess is that due to critical damage control positions needing to be retained aboard, the ship could not put together more than five duty sections. You can do the math.


Fire watches for welding by shipyard civilians were always provided by the ship's crew in my experience. Training of these people for an unaccustomed duty used to be, "Hey, here's a CO2 fire extinguisher; go watch for fire while this guy welds." I am sure it is a bit more involved nowadays including ensuring no flammables are nearby, but it was still a drain on the shorthanded crew in the yard back then and doubtless no less now.

If what I would consider highly unusual weekend welding was going on, I wonder if it was crew members and not yard workers doing it. Fire watch for either was probably the crew's responsibility which rolls right uphill to you know who, the captain.

I don't have the article to hand now (was a local SD one), but it mentioned that the "explosion" was something like a very hot compartment releasing vs. one caused by fuel. I'm not sure I understand exactly what that means though.

I'll post a link if I find it again.

rgano said:

If they had been at sea and not in a yard where all sorts of hoses and cables prevent closing of many water- and fire-proof doors, the chances of snuffing out the fire would be much greater. Being in a yard, your crew is under constant turnover from transfers and off-ship schooling and leave. As a command duty officer (the officer in charge of the ship in port) in numerous ships, I was often in the position of denying requests from critical fire fighters in my duty section for special liberty off the ship. It was a constant challenge to be ready to fight fire and flooding. At sea, you have the full crew and the General Quarters button right at your elbow. The full crew knows every inch of the fire fighting apparatus, is organized to use it, and motivated. The Bonhomme Richard is likely now in the hands of some of her crew but quite possibly a bunch of shore-based fire fighters who do not know her so well.

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This is the best explanation i've heard. During interviews last night on TV I was wondering why a civilian fire company was taking the lead. The fire chief said all they would do is passively try to control the fire. WHAT??? When I was on active duty we had fire drills every night, and often twice a day. I was on the damage control team for the engine room (rescue 5) and it was always attack. attack, attack. We knew every inch of the ship and had drilled in every compartment. With most of the ships company gone and doors unable to close, well it doesn't look good.
John

I believe many military facilities have civilian based fire departments these days....augmented with some military.

From..... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1UGJGdaI-18iV1V_4tfjK4

"Navy Fire and Emergency Services
Protecting Those Who Defend America
The Department of the Navy utilizes civilian Department of Defense firefighters to protect many
of their domestic and foreign installations, high value assets and assigned personnel. Navy
Region Mid-Atlantic Fire & Emergency Services members include Firefighter-EMT’s, Firefighter-
Paramedics, Fire Protection Inspectors and Fire Protection Specialists. They provide a wide
variety of emergency services, prevention, training, and other operations to support the
missions of the Navy.
Navy Region Mid-Atlantic Fire & Emergency Services is the DoD fire department that supports
Navy operations on the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast coasts of the United States. This includes
naval installations from North Carolina to Maine, and West to Indiana and Illinois.
Responsibilities of the department include structural, shipboard & aircraft firefighting operations,
emergency medical services, hazardous materials response, and technical rescue. The
department also has a fire prevention branch that performs inspections, promotes fire safety,
and interacts with civilian and active duty installation personnel."

I'm sure the Navy Dept will figure out some way to blame and fire the Skipper for alleged shortcomings over this. (Wonder if he sent any e-mails recently?!?)

Depending on extent/severity of the damage, the ship may likely be judged not salvageable, especially since it's 23 years old. If it IS repairable, it will be years before it is available to the fleet again.

Now I see why the Navy was so serious about fire control.

The BR is an old ship. I was aboard her in the early 60’s. Just looking for a Navy friend.

Slowgoesit,
Not very up-beat but you’re probably right about the outcome.

Article said, the halon system had been shut down for maintenance.

The Bonhomme Richard was commissioned after I got out of the Navy in 1996. I wouldn't call it old.

Halon would not have been a option in the hanger deck, AFFF systems should have been available unless in maintenance. Then of course contingent options ought to have been implemented to cover these sorts of things. I read, from one account, a barrel of "tool cutting oil" went up after the initial fire began and that's what drove it to it a uncontrollable status.

The on base federal fire departments or even local state and community based fire departments really have no idea how to fight these kinds of fires. Compartmentalization, system and piping interactions, magazines, hazmat storage, fuel distribution etc. make these infinitely more difficult that a typical structure fire. Heck, even dealing with tanks and voids is a specialty unto itself that shore-based firefighting units have limited application.

They would have been much better off underway. A limited duty section, yard work and obstructions, tagged out systems etc make for a much easier line up of the holes in the swiss cheese...

Being on a ship in shipyard sucks. It is like hanging out with a person on life support in ICU. Tubes and wires everywhere, and just a shell of their former self and in a very vulnerable state. As if the life force is sucked our of them.

Rgano, Rich, the following is a Facebook post by a CPO who helped get one of the two guided middle destroyers that were close by the BHRichard. I am sure you can speak to the dedication and bravery of these sailors. How do we find kids like these? My son, also CPO in San Diego, re-posted a personal story by another CPO, Kim Husser. Isn't amazing how casually she refers to what I would consider to be at least somewhat serious injuries.

"I am home from the ER, smoke inhalation, abrasions to both eyes, and a pretty intense sunburn with blisters. So far we have no deaths and only 2 Sailors needed to be admitted overnight. BUT...It’s not over, the fire is still raging. Sailors and civilian first responders are still there. For those conspiracy people, it wasn’t a terrorist attack. It just got out of hand and once the explosions began, they didn’t stop. With all that said, let me tell you....TODAY WAS A GREAT DAY TO BE A CHIEF IN THE WORLD’S FINEST NAVY. We got two ships underway with no cranes, no port ops, no briefs, just Sailors from multiple ships coming together and putting their training to work. Officers and Enlisted...hand to hand...it wasn’t about rank, it was about expierence and leadership, following orders, and taking charge. We got two ships underway in conditions where you couldn’t see the Sailor in front of you. We got two ships underway basically blindfolded with nothing more than the standardized training across the waterfront AND THAT is AMAZING!

Update: I am not a BHR Sailor, just one of many Sailors across multiple waterfront commands standing at the lifelines to fight beside the crew of the BHR."

Northern Spy said:

The Bonhomme Richard was commissioned after I got out of the Navy in 1996. I wouldn't call it old.

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Yep.... from Wikipedia....


Name: Bonhomme Richard

Namesake: Bonhomme Richard

Ordered: 11 December 1992
Builder: Ingalls Shipbuilding
Laid down: 18 April 1995
Launched: 14 March 1997
Commissioned: 15 August 1998

Funny...even an article in Military.com mentioned the ship was named after...then went on only about Ben Franklin....sure he was the namesake....but no mention of John Paul Jones who made her famous and why the current one was probably named?

Nomad Willy said:

The BR is an old ship. I was aboard her in the early 60’s. .

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???

My son is at the SEAL base in Coronado. He has friends that were to deploy on this vessel although they were not aboard when this happened. It is said to be carrying 1,000,000 gallons of fuel. Last count 51 injured. Fire crews changing every 15 minutes due to the high heat. If I hear anything interesting I'll pass it on.

The local news from San Diego says ship is a total loss.