Captains License

Taras · Jul 11, 2020

Hey all,
I'm considering obtaining my captains license for 6 Pack. I've got a tremendous amount of sea experience but just never pursued the license. I'm thinking now is the time as I may begin to do 6 pack charters. Does anyone have a recommendation as to an online company where you can get a good, legitimate captains license? I don't want to get my PhD, just want a respectable license that would be acceptable to the Coast Guard and to Insurance Companies. I've started to do some research online, but wanted to ask this community.
Thank you for any suggestions,
Steve

psneeld · Jul 11, 2020

For a six pack just about any of the courses will work, both for online or inperson, whether at public places or a "maritime university".

Go to the USCG National Maritime Center and read up on licensing.

Also, if you are thinking of using your own boat, which looks like a Choey Lee to me....there is a catch where you have to be granted special permission to use your boat for US commerce. Not sure what the hoops are but believe there still are a few.

GH41 · Jul 11, 2020

I used Sea School but it was probably 40 years ago. Looks like they are still around. Before you spend too much time getting the licence you may want to look at what is involved in running a legitimate operation. Insurance, business licence, tax ID#, payroll, booking service and a marina willing to let you run it off of their dock all come to mind. My goal was to charter enough to lower my cost of owning the boat. My problem was the IRS didn't have a sense of humor.. They didn't like me running a business operating at a loss quarter after quarter. It is hard to make it work unless it is a full time job. I am sure things have changed but I can't imagine it got easier.

alormaria · Jul 11, 2020

I got my ticket using Sea School too. It's 2 weekends and nights in between. That is just studying and passing the test. The rest of the paperwork is up to you. My package stood 2" thick when I sent it off. 3 weeks later I had my OUPV.

Stop calling it a six-pack.

MYTraveler · Jul 11, 2020

GH41 said:
My problem was the IRS didn't . . . like me running a business operating at a loss quarter after quarter.

For the benefit of OP, there is nothing wrong with running a losing business year after year. You just can't offset "hobby losses" against other taxable income. Boats and racehorses arouse immediate suspicion.

albinalaska · Jul 11, 2020

I looked online for a bit but it got pretty overwhelming pretty quick. I couldn't tell who was legitimate or not and didn't want to go through all that work to be told at the finish line that it didn't count or was a scam. I ended up registering for a class through the maritime department at the university in my town. They were offering financial aid through some federal grants (I'm in Alaska and they were trying to invest in Alaskans getting work at maritime jobs) so it really helped. Maybe explore that as an option depending on where you are located? They don't always advertise what's available financially.

If your self motivated studying on your own may help - but there is so much information to cover in the class and limits on how many times one can even test that an educational environment suits a lot of people best for this. And you'd be learning from someone who has already been out there with their license. Otherwise, youtube university may help.

OUPV/6pack is now just called the USCG 50 Ton Endorsement - 6pack is the old school term I was told though commonly used today - obviously.

To psneelds comment: If you're going that route to use your own vessel professionally - not that you mentioned it - you need to have commercial insurance, vessel registered with the coast guard and subject to yearly USCG inspections and per the Jones Act "any vessel that participates in “coastwise trade” has to be constructed in the United States..."

Eagle Pursuit · Jul 11, 2020

I believe the Jones Act is normally read to ensure that "Port to Port" trade is done by U.S. built ships and not charters returning to the Port of Origin.

ranger58sb · Jul 11, 2020

Taras said:
Does anyone have a recommendation as to an online company where you can get a good, legitimate captains license? I don't want to get my PhD, just want a respectable license that would be acceptable to the Coast Guard and to Insurance Companies.

Just because of the way you worded that, thought maybe useful to mention that the companies don't give you a license. The companies prepare you for the USCG tests, and (assuming you pass all the sections properly) USCG issues the credential.

-Chris

mvweebles · Jul 11, 2020

I did my exam prep 25 years ago. 80 hours of classroom time and I'm not sure I would have passed the exam had it been online. There was a lot of esoteric information I needed to know (when to use CO2 fire extinguishers comes to mind).

Company I used was our of San Diego and is probably still around. Instructor was quite good. I was pretty proud when I passed the USCG exam (proctored by the school). Come to think about it, one way to separate the schools would be to eliminate any that do not have a USCG accepted proctored exam as the final deliverable of the course

psneeld · Jul 11, 2020

To be clear...dont get hung up with Jones act...just check the requirements for Uninspected Vessel requirements if all you are looking at is taking up to 6 passengers.

The definition is uninspected vessels for 6 passengers or less but there is still a laundry list of requirements the USCG requires ( country of origin for the vessel included)..... most USCG district's have a pamphlet or book that lists the requirements and CFRs that require them.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2fi1KNLRZWU8du9SoXCqq9

" More than 5 Net Tons less than 100 Gross Tons:
Documented with Coast Guard. Endorsed for "coastwise trade".
Must be U.S. built and U.S. owned."

However, exemptions may be granted if I remember correctly.

Sidclark · Jul 11, 2020

In my opinion you should skip the 6 pack license and go for the masters. You say you have plenty of sea time and the test for the masters is only slightly longer. Depending on the rating of the vessel you spent most of your sea time on is what determines whether you get a 25, 50 or 100 ton license. The big difference is now you're not limited to six people if your vessel is inspected. Or maybe you might have the opportunity to captain a charter boat or a tour boat or run a ferry. Who knows what the future holds? Might as well be ready with a masters license.

Capitaine R · Jul 11, 2020

Sidclark said:
In my opinion you should skip the 6 pack license and go for the masters. You say you have plenty of sea time and the test for the masters is only slightly longer. Depending on the rating of the vessel you spent most of your sea time on is what determines whether you get a 25, 50 or 100 ton license. The big difference is now you're not limited to six people if your vessel is inspected. Or maybe you might have the opportunity to captain a charter boat or a tour boat or run a ferry. Who knows what the future holds? Might as well be ready with a masters license.

+1 for this statement, I went for a 100 ton license. I also went for a towing endorsement just in case I needed to get a job with a towing company in the future. You never know

have a class A CDL too, haven't used it for years but I'm not giving it up.

Steve Jackson · Jul 11, 2020

The other advantage of going for the Master Licensee is if they don't give you 100GT because of the vessels that you have time on, you will still have a masters liceense but with limited tonnage. Say it is only 50 GT, all you need to upgrade to 100GT is time on the proper tonnage vessels. No additional test required.

As far as using your vessel, it will have to be a US built vessel, unless you get a waiver. It doesn't matter if you carry 1 or 6 paying passengers. Without a USCG inspection you won't get to carry more than 6 passengers even if it is US built.

Sidclark · Jul 11, 2020

As far as the Jones Act is concerned, it's about 500 bucks worth of paperwork and you're good to go...

psneeld · Jul 11, 2020

https://www.boatingworld.com/asktheattorney/ask-the-attorney-2015-03-13/

The Jones Act applies to all passengers and cargo vessels, so our reader won’t be able to escape the foreign-build restrictions by limiting his business to six-pack charters (charters that carry six or fewer paying passengers). He may, however, qualify for a waiver through the Small Vessel Waiver Program administered by the United States Maritime Administration (“MARAD”). Information regarding a waiver is available on MARAD’s web site at marad.dot.gov (follow the links to the Small Vessel Waiver Program).

https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-attorney/will-a-marad-waiver-allow-charters-on-a-foreign-built-boat/

Russell Clifton · Jul 11, 2020

Is there not also a requirement for documented proof of your years of experience?

psneeld · Jul 11, 2020

Yes but easy if an active boater....the hardest is the recency requirement of 90 days in the last 3 years. That trips up a lot of people and lying is a really bad idea. The USCG has a memory like an elephant.

twistedtree · Jul 11, 2020

I agree it's worth tallying up your "documented" sea time well in advance to be sure you qualify. You may have the time, but it needs to be documented, and that can prove problematic. When I did the training for my ticket, a couple people got surprised at the end because they didn't actually have the sea time. And your class certificate is only good for a year.

mvweebles · Jul 11, 2020

Sidclark said:
In my opinion you should skip the 6 pack license and go for the masters. You say you have plenty of sea time and the test for the masters is only slightly longer. Depending on the rating of the vessel you spent most of your sea time on is what determines whether you get a 25, 50 or 100 ton license. The big difference is now you're not limited to six people if your vessel is inspected. Or maybe you might have the opportunity to captain a charter boat or a tour boat or run a ferry. Who knows what the future holds? Might as well be ready with a masters license.

Unless something has changed, you don't have a choice. The exam is the same (or dang close to the same) . The endorsements are the same. Difference is the qualifying time and vessels which the USCG examiner will determine. I guess you could say "gee, thanks - I really don't want the 100T license, let's just stick with the OUPV, okay?".

psneeld · Jul 11, 2020

I I believe there is a OUPV license, course and testing...same as when I taught it.

This is from a Sea School website....

OUPV - Captain's License Details
Sea School is proud to have been approved by the United States Coast Guard to offer this unique course for the OUPV (6-Pack) Captain's License.
It is unique in that successful completion of this course will result in a United States Coast Guard license being issued without requiring the usual United States Coast Guard exam.

The U.S. Coast Guard calls this license Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV). The rest of the world refers to it as the "6-PACK" License. The word "uninspected" is a technical term meaning that the equipment required, and the design of the boat, are less regulated. "6-PACK" refers to the 6 passenger limitation placed on the boat, and additionally, on the license.

The OUPV (Captain's License) license comes in 3 versions: Inland, Great Lakes and Near Coastal.

The Near Coastal version enables one to travel up to 100 miles offshore of the United States, it's territories, Great Lakes and inland waters.

Inland waters means lakes, bays, rivers, sounds, etc., of the U.S.

All OUPV licenses are for vessels less than 100 Gross Tons.

BandB · Jul 11, 2020

There are actually three options now.

First is OUPV. At MPT (using them as an example to show differences) it is an 8 day course and costs $699. It requires 360 days of which 90 must be in last three years.

Second is a Masters with tonnage of up to 100 Tons. At MPT, it adds three days and $100. Now, this is a National license, only good in the US just as is the OUPV. Inland requires 360 days but near coastal requires 720 days.

Third is a Masters that is also valid outside the US. This is a Masters with an STCW endorsement. It requires additional courses and an assessment. It also requires 360 days of Sea Time while licensed as a Master. It can add $2000-3000 in cost.

I would encourage anyone with the Sea Time to go for a Masters with tonnage, instead of just the OUPV. Very little more work or cost.

Are any of these worth the effort and cost? Definitely if you want to run charters. Otherwise, you can debate, but I do value the additional education that comes with them. I don't see people who don't intend to be professionals go for the STCW endorsement. However, if you do want to run charters to other countries then it is required.

lwarden · Jul 11, 2020

mvweebles said:
I did my exam prep 25 years ago. 80 hours of classroom time and I'm not sure I would have passed the exam had it been online. There was a lot of esoteric information I needed to know (when to use CO2 fire extinguishers comes to mind).

Company I used was our of San Diego and is probably still around. Instructor was quite good. I was pretty proud when I passed the USCG exam (proctored by the school). Come to think about it, one way to separate the schools would be to eliminate any that do not have a USCG accepted proctored exam as the final deliverable of the course

I think you are referring to Mariner's Preparation License School in Point Loma. This was where I took my classes, but that was 35+ years ago. They don't appear to be around, but there are other classes available. I would suggest going to one of the onsite ones vs. online. They are usually taught by ex-USCG and the insight and stories they tell to go along with the training is invaluable.

I let my license laps long ago when I started my career as a "professional", but now I wish I had kept it current, it's a nice thing to have.

78puget-trawler · Jul 12, 2020

psneeld said:
I I believe there is a OUPV license, course and testing...same as when I taught it.

This is from a Sea School website....

OUPV - Captain's License Details
Sea School is proud to have been approved by the United States Coast Guard to offer this unique course for the OUPV (6-Pack) Captain's License.
It is unique in that successful completion of this course will result in a United States Coast Guard license being issued without requiring the usual United States Coast Guard exam.

The U.S. Coast Guard calls this license Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV). The rest of the world refers to it as the "6-PACK" License. The word "uninspected" is a technical term meaning that the equipment required, and the design of the boat, are less regulated. "6-PACK" refers to the 6 passenger limitation placed on the boat, and additionally, on the license.

The OUPV (Captain's License) license comes in 3 versions: Inland, Great Lakes and Near Coastal.

The Near Coastal version enables one to travel up to 100 miles offshore of the United States, it's territories, Great Lakes and inland waters.

Inland waters means lakes, bays, rivers, sounds, etc., of the U.S.

All OUPV licenses are for vessels less than 100 Gross Tons.

No CG test?! Wish I could have gotten my 200/200 tugboat operators license that easy! :banghead:

Went to school for nearly a month then sat for 3 hours long exams. I don't think my feet hit the ground for a month afterwards.

twistedtree · Jul 12, 2020

78puget-trawler said:
No CG test?! Wish I could have gotten my 200/200 tugboat operators license that easy! Went to school for nearly a month then sat for 3 hours long exams. I don't think my feet hit the ground for a month afterwards.

Agreed that the "no test" comment doesn't make much sense. There is definitely a test for OUPV And a little bit more of a test for Masters. So "no test" really means "no extra test".

Sailor of Fortune · Jul 12, 2020

Not sure how the regional exam centers are operating these days but they have been giving extensions for license renewals due to covid related shutdown of schools issuing STCW classes and revalidations. My license is up for renewal in September and I have been extended to end of year.

psneeld · Jul 12, 2020

78puget-trawler said:
No CG test?! Wish I could have gotten my 200/200 tugboat operators license that easy! Went to school for nearly a month then sat for 3 hours long exams. I don't think my feet hit the ground for a month afterwards.

When I taught, it was tests made from the bank of 10,000 USCG questions .

Unlike the USCG exams they were all closed book. My friends that took their exams from the USCG said only the Navrules was closed book for them.

The main differences in the courses and studying on your own is that the courses teach how to test and learn heavily on tested material instead of the way out stuff.

Cant say currently is what is going on, but I haven't heard of any changes.

Here is the statement at the finish of what I posted previously....

"Additional Materials needed for this course:
Parallel Ruler
Dividers
TSD Wheel
Calculator
*This course requires a proctored exam."

BandB · Jul 12, 2020

twistedtree said:
Agreed that the "no test" comment doesn't make much sense. There is definitely a test for OUPV And a little bit more of a test for Masters. So "no test" really means "no extra test".

No test for an OUPV means if you attend an approved school you do not have to take any CG test.

BandB · Jul 12, 2020

78puget-trawler said:
No CG test?! Wish I could have gotten my 200/200 tugboat operators license that easy! Went to school for nearly a month then sat for 3 hours long exams. I don't think my feet hit the ground for a month afterwards.

Big difference between a 200 and an OUPV. Today a 200 with STCW and with no restrictions on the license, so maximum, would require 37 days of training plus assessment.

BandB · Jul 12, 2020

Sailor of Fortune said:
Not sure how the regional exam centers are operating these days but they have been giving extensions for license renewals due to covid related shutdown of schools issuing STCW classes and revalidations. My license is up for renewal in September and I have been extended to end of year.

Here is a summary of the situation as of the last update:

https://www.mptusa.com/article.cfm?a=144

and here directly from the CG.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/.../MSIB-08-20-CH2.pdf?ver=2020-06-04-125639-513

78puget-trawler · Jul 12, 2020

psneeld said:
When I taught, it was tests made from the bank of 10,000 USCG questions .

Unlike the USCG exams they were all closed book. My friends that took their exams from the USCG said only the Navrules was closed book for them.

The main differences in the courses and studying on your own is that the courses teach how to test and learn heavily on tested material instead of the way out stuff.

Cant say currently is what is going on, but I haven't heard of any changes.

Here is the statement at the finish of what I posted previously....

"Additional Materials needed for this course:
Parallel Ruler
Dividers
TSD Wheel
Calculator
*This course requires a proctored exam."[/QUO

Only thing open book in my exams was the so called "general" section, a lot having to do with the infamous CFR manual as I recall. I scored lowest on that part oddly enough. The rules and Nav sections were not open book where I did about 98 percent. This was in 1984 in Seattle.

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