Admiral Happiness

Three year follow-up!

Re-reading my original post (and everyone's friggin funny replies) and thought an update is in order to the original from THREE YEARS AGO- OMG this is one long @$$ process!

Continue to lurk around yachtworld and TF. Continue to roam docks (together) and point out pros/cons. Spent several nights on a KK42 recently and got underway. To my surprise, she said "I think I could do this" w/ a twinkle in her eye. Topside cocktails in a nice breeze overlooking the water w/ a setting sun also helped.

Early on, we kept thinking Kadey Krogens and we both walked off of this one after several days and felt like we could do the boating lifestyle, just not in a Kadey. Both in great shape but climbing/worming into a very high V berth in a room w/ not a lot of natural light was not for us. Nor was a head that when sitting, knocked doors open (although I'm not Larry Craig). But man did I like the feel of being underway in a heavy displacement boat.

So now we're thinking aft stateroom. And something w/ a larger outdoor deck. Believe it or not, she's a runner and is wondering how to put a small treadmill on a boat so SHE can make it work. Seriously. Some nice DeFevers have some topside areas as big as our living room- doable? Other thoughts?

Everyone said, slowly ease in, three years before truly spending time on one is definitely easing in. We continue to negotiate and in the next phase consider a small land based condo near the water and a trawler that is a second home that allows us to travel.

Grateful for everyone's insights. You said spend some time on one- check. Go slow- double check. Still looking/interested- good sign. In the meantime, will get on my sail boat and get my fix until we can get to the next phase...

I have a KK and love it, but knowing what doesn't work for you is as important or more important than knowing what does. Good for you. One thing to also think about is if you might be more comfortable in a stateroom with a berth which goes beam to beam. Just a thought.

proudsailor said:

Re-reading my original post (and everyone's friggin funny replies) and thought an update is in order to the original from THREE YEARS AGO- OMG this is one long @$$ process!

Continue to lurk around yachtworld and TF. Continue to roam docks (together) and point out pros/cons. Spent several nights on a KK42 recently and got underway. To my surprise, she said "I think I could do this" w/ a twinkle in her eye. Topside cocktails in a nice breeze overlooking the water w/ a setting sun also helped.

Early on, we kept thinking Kadey Krogens and we both walked off of this one after several days and felt like we could do the boating lifestyle, just not in a Kadey. Both in great shape but climbing/worming into a very high V berth in a room w/ not a lot of natural light was not for us. Nor was a head that when sitting, knocked doors open (although I'm not Larry Craig). But man did I like the feel of being underway in a heavy displacement boat.

So now we're thinking aft stateroom. And something w/ a larger outdoor deck. Believe it or not, she's a runner and is wondering how to put a small treadmill on a boat so SHE can make it work. Seriously. Some nice DeFevers have some topside areas as big as our living room- doable? Other thoughts?

Everyone said, slowly ease in, three years before truly spending time on one is definitely easing in. We continue to negotiate and in the next phase consider a small land based condo near the water and a trawler that is a second home that allows us to travel.

Grateful for everyone's insights. You said spend some time on one- check. Go slow- double check. Still looking/interested- good sign. In the meantime, will get on my sail boat and get my fix until we can get to the next phase...

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Wifey B: Since this unknown entity isn't here to speak for herself, then I'm going to ask why the %#@$^&% are you still trying to push this on her three years later when you knew from the beginning she isn't in favor?

And another thing. What the heck do you mean by "The Admiral?" What are you implying when saying that. Are you saying do nothing but orders or just a figurehead who doesn't really matter? You're certainly not using a term to denote an equal partner in the whole thing. Please define "The Admiral" for me so I'll know what it is meant to convey in your mind. As Bruce B said, in Dorsey's mind it was fighting words, in my mind, in Pilou's. Others find it fine, but I'd just like to hear what it means to you. Now, we're all serious boaters so maybe different to us than those who don't boat, but still what does it mean.

"I think I could do this." Translation, "I sure as heck don't want to but since you continue to harass me over it year after year after year after year, I'll give you one small iota of hope but if you force this, you will regret it more than you know."

My advice. Go buy your boat. She'll join you for the first trip, then that will be it. One rough day at sea or being tossed all night at anchor, one storm, one disastrous docking, it doesn't take much to run off someone who didn't want to boat to start with. There are a lot of spouses who have been dragged into boating but had one bad experience and been 100% out of it. See, those of us who truly want to boat are difficult to discourage. Those in it reluctantly, don't take much to be run away from it.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Since this unknown entity isn't here to speak for herself, then I'm going to ask why the %#@$^&% are you still trying to push this on her three years later when you knew from the beginning she isn't in favor?

And another thing. What the heck do you mean by "The Admiral?" What are you implying when saying that. Are you saying do nothing but orders or just a figurehead who doesn't really matter? You're certainly not using a term to denote an equal partner in the whole thing. Please define "The Admiral" for me so I'll know what it is meant to convey in your mind. As Bruce B said, in Dorsey's mind it was fighting words, in my mind, in Pilou's. Others find it fine, but I'd just like to hear what it means to you. Now, we're all serious boaters so maybe different to us than those who don't boat, but still what does it mean.

"I think I could do this." Translation, "I sure as heck don't want to but since you continue to harass me over it year after year after year after year, I'll give you one small iota of hope but if you force this, you will regret it more than you know."

My advice. Go buy your boat. She'll join you for the first trip, then that will be it. One rough day at sea or being tossed all night at anchor, one storm, one disastrous docking, it doesn't take much to run off someone who didn't want to boat to start with. There are a lot of spouses who have been dragged into boating but had one bad experience and been 100% out of it. See, those of us who truly want to boat are difficult to discourage. Those in it reluctantly, don't take much to be run away from it.

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Except you the “admrial” rant I 100% agree with your post.

My wife is “the admiral” and the term is Not derogatory, it is a term of respect to signify that in many things She has the final word. Many guys would be a bit foolhardy if it were not for the steadying hand of “the admrial”

Especially for a newbie..the label Admiral is all too common on internet threads to get beat up over.

I would love to know what "serious boater" really means...

The Defever 44 (and the cockpit equipped 44+5) checks a lot of those boxes; great outdoor living space and aft cabin. The Gulfstar 44MY likewise, I was very impressed by the one we spent a week on helping friends bring their new purchase down to NC from Solomons. Nice ER's in both those boats and overall good ergonomics.

Not sure ay all about a treadmill though. Even on our much bigger Hatteras 56MY that would eat up way too much space for my liking. And I don't know how friendly a salt water environment would be on one of those things. Maybe a compact exercise bike instead? Do you plan on being away from shore for extended periods of time? Why not take the dinghy to shore and go hiking or biking. Maybe even row over there with the right dink.

That bit about ergonomics is critical. A boat may have all the floating condo features you want, but how about ease of the two of you operating, docking/undocking, mooring, anchoring and maintaining it? These are the things that do a lot of people in on the boating life.

psneeld said:

Especially for a newbie..the label Admiral is all too common on internet threads to get beat up over.

I would love to know what "serious boater" really means...

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Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it.

Back to Admiral for a moment, as Ksanders says it means she has the final word. I ask, however, the OP what it means to him. Does it mean final word but little involvement in terms of being hands on? Does it imply that she is able to overrule his wishes so they aren't equal but she holds some military like rank over him?

I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position?

I know those of you who use the term mean in lovingly and in honor, but I just don't understand why that term has become so common and what it really means in this regard. Ksanders says, "final word". Is that the universal meaning?

In the OP's case, if it means the final word, then seems he's not accepted that along the way.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it. ......I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position? I know those of you who use the term mean in lovingly and in honor, but I just don't understand why that term has become so common and what it really means in this regard

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I agree with your definition of "serious boaters" but to me, using the term "admiral" with respect to your wife is "over the top." In my stint aboard the carrier Enterprise, the admiral commanded the fleet and the captain the boat. I feel that the use of the word "admiral" to describe one's wife is extremely over used. We use "first mate" and the captain has the last word. It's exactly like PIC (pilot in command) when flying.

Watch the movie "Sink the Bismark"....its on youtube. Simplicity of reality.

Like the Captain and Admiral aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt issue.

No, the admiral aboard is not superfluous....and it fits private boats almost to a "T" also.

You might compare it like a captain and cruise director on a cruise ship.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it.

I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position?

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psneeld said:

You might compare it like a captain and cruise director on a cruise ship.

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Geez, Wifey B... many good points, but maybe you can take a deep breath for a minute...

Proudsailor can get where he and his own wifey want to get without having his knuckles slapped for (what many of us think are) minor details...

Yes, Captain commands the boat, Admiral commands the fleet. (As well as the composition of the fleet, in many cases.) No, not at all superfluous in family recreational boating. PSN's description (captain and cruise director) is right on for many when it comes to onboard activities (not particularly related to safe operations of the boat underway) and what to do when the boat gets "there."

But in our case, my Admiral also mostly decides our "fleet movements" first, as Admirals are wont to do. I suggest, of course, as does she... and we have an equal partnership... I mostly defer to her judgement when it comes to really deciding where we go when.

Perhaps it's a more comfortable relationship for us than you might imagine from the terminology than it would be for you... but perhaps we're also influenced by several decades of working with actual Admirals and Captains... and Generals and Colonels and so forth.

Anyway, it comes down to job descriptions, and for us "Admiral" is a legit and honorable role.

-Chris

I'm with psneeld and ranger on this one. I've been boating since I was too young to remember. She hasn't been. So she gets a lot of say in the what / where / how long kind of stuff, as something that seems reasonable and fun to me may seem crazy, boring or just be too much in her mind.

When it comes to actual boat operation, she becomes the first mate. She's still getting used to spending some time at the helm, but fortunately, she doesn't mind slightly rough seas when I'm at the helm. She described it once as "better than driving in the snow" while blowing through a 2 foot chop on the way home one evening.

ranger42c said:

Geez, Wifey B... many good points, but maybe you can take a deep breath for a minute...

Proudsailor can get where he and his own wifey want to get without having his knuckles slapped for (what many of us think are) minor details...

Yes, Captain commands the boat, Admiral commands the fleet. (As well as the composition of the fleet, in many cases.) No, not at all superfluous in family recreational boating. PSN's description (captain and cruise director) is right on for many when it comes to onboard activities (not particularly related to safe operations of the boat underway) and what to do when the boat gets "there."

But in our case, my Admiral also mostly decides our "fleet movements" first, as Admirals are wont to do. I suggest, of course, as does she... and we have an equal partnership... I mostly defer to her judgement when it comes to really deciding where we go when.

Perhaps it's a more comfortable relationship for us than you might imagine from the terminology than it would be for you... but perhaps we're also influenced by several decades of working with actual Admirals and Captains... and Generals and Colonels and so forth.

Anyway, it comes down to job descriptions, and for us "Admiral" is a legit and honorable role.

-Chris

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Wifey B: I'm calm, but just find the proliferation of the term to be strange. You say you have an equal partnership. Well, Admiral and Captain aren't terms of equals. Cruise director is an interesting label. I don't mean to be picking on the OP as much as just asking all of you who use the term. I believe a lot of you use the term Admiral but describing different situations. I don't fault any of you using the term but it lacks a consistent definition I believe. I wish there was a better term for your partner in boating.

The OP hasn't described their relationship. My slapping of the OP isn't over the labels but him ignoring her choices.

Somebody woke up cranky today. The man has a plan and is including the distaff side of the family in a way she seems to enjoy.

If we are all being brutally honest, my wife is slowly working her way out of LTJG for the last few years.

She'll make full Lieutenant if she remembers how a telescoping camlock boathook works next time out.

I know all have heard the term " The Admiral" out of me many times, to be honest my wife, partner, spouse calls herself "The Admiral". It never comes out of my mouth or is written out of any disrespect or malice. In all our boating life we have split responsibilities ( almost like the colors on the deck of a carrier) of the voyage. I take care or the mechanical and running of the boat, she plans the voyage, stops,provisioning, guests, kids, activities, social calendar etc. Her focus is the big picture, mine is the boat. Its not a sexist statement, there are boats out there that these roles are reversed. Look up " Mermaid Monster' a Nordhavn that is out cruising where the roles are reversed.

I truly believe that there can only be one person that has ultimate responsibility on the operation of a boat, they don't do well when ran by a committee... it take too long to make decisions when time counts. My wife has only 5-7000 less offshore miles than I have, and all of hers is under sail. She is a very accomplished and tough sailor, she has navigated with celestial navigation across the Pacific.. done multiple sail changes at night.. offshore by herself and on a boat she is totally capable and self assured. I proudly call her My Admiral, if I called her the Captain she would probably give me crap and tell me it was not in my power to demote her.
HOLLYWOOD

Appreciating your admiral/companion/first-mate/deck-hand is good, and is regardless of your descriptive.

My Admiral picked her preference. If there were a term with a better fit, we’d be using it.

Referring to the OP, my Admiral and I bought a high quality, low-profile mechanical elliptical exercise machine while living in Germany, featuring hand tension controls and sans the usual touch screen or LCD display crap. Part of the strategy was that we may indeed need such a unit for our boating plan. Keep in mind, you’ve got to have the ceiling clearance if you want it inside. Otherwise, if it’s on deck, even the stainless steel units (mostly 304 grade SS) will quickly rust in salt air.

Without the head clearance inside, one might be better off with a sitting design like a bike or rower.

WOW... another classic TF debate re "correct" terminology!
I guess "Admiral" gets added added to the list of hot topics... starting with Trawler, anchor, twins/single, thruster(s), diesel/gas, etc, etc

If any of us use terms that imply a Title or Duties we best be careful of how others might interpret it and beat us up for incorrect usage. I'm pretty sure that those of us recreational boaters that use terms like this have our own definition or interpretation that fits and works. I dont see where it's necessary to have one universally accepted definition - after all recreational boating doesn't fall under any command and control structure.
Why is it that I dont see anyone being beat up for using the term Captain? I think that is equally misused here on TF and I dont recall any rants over its use.
Shouldn't Captain be reserved for licensed captains? and maybe "skipper" be used for unlicensed re reational boat operators?
Also - how do you recognize two "partners" sharing and swapping duties? CoCaptains, CoSkippers,
What about where duties are defined or understood and are different but each have veto power... how to define that arrangement.
Many feel "mate" even "first mate" is derogatory...
then what are we to do to please everyone?
Is it necessary to please everyone or better to just understand your own situation and listen, understand, and respect each others opinions / inputs.

B&B...
I'm curious how you define each other? Captains? CoCaptains?
Also you have explained well why the use of Admiral is wrong but I dont recall seeing a clarification re: what is the "correct" terminology to use under the various situational relationships aboard?
Please enlighten us.

Bottom line... who really cares? and is it important?
Should I be concerned how others define their relationship when aboard? (Or when ashore for that matter)

BandB said:

You say you have an equal partnership. Well, Admiral and Captain aren't terms of equals.

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It's not a matter of equality (or not) in terminology; instead it's a matter of mission. Admirals are in charge for one thing, Captains for another.

Wifey likes to pick areas with wildlife viewing in mind; she can spot a turtle on a branch at 200 yards... whereas I wouldn't see that kind of wildlife it if bit me in the a$$. Wifey can drive the boat (dock, etc.), but doesn't really enjoy it. It's a pretty good partnership.

-Chris

This entire discussion about the use of the term "admiral" is silly. I don't use it to refer to my wife but, IMHO, it's none of my business how another couple chooses to interact with their spouse. I sometimes refer to my wife, adoringly, as my "plump peach". She is not offended at all but I'll bet some here would say it's offensive. It's our business, no one other's.

In today's world....and greatly so right here sometimes....it seems like other people's business IS everyone's business....

ranger42c said:

It's not a matter of equality (or not) in terminology; instead it's a matter of mission. Admirals are in charge for one thing, Captains for another.

Wifey likes to pick areas with wildlife viewing in mind; she can spot a turtle on a branch at 200 yards... whereas I wouldn't see that kind of wildlife it if bit me in the a$$. Wifey can drive the boat (dock, etc.), but doesn't really enjoy it. It's a pretty good partnership.

-Chris

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Wifey B: And the real issue isn't terminology between two consenting adults, but what it means to those involved. My original post was a concern the OP wasn't hearing his wife who had over the years repeatedly said "no."

Only thing I'd remind about Admiral is don't use it to refer to someone that you don't know likes the term.

Bacchus said:

Why is it that I dont see anyone being beat up for using the term Captain? I think that is equally misused here on TF and I dont recall any rants over its use.
Shouldn't Captain be reserved for licensed captains?

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Bacchus, I've followed your posts since you joined TF and learned from them. Even incorporated several suggestions you've made on to my own vessel.

In the Navy, the word captain is used to describe any officer that is in charge of a Naval vessel. A commander may be the captain of a submarine or a Lt. Commander the captain of a destroyer and so on. Many of TF's members are ex military (A lot of Navy guys, including me!) and may refer to anyone who helms a recreational boat as "The captain." Using the word "Skipper" is synonymous with "Captain" and is used interchangeably with captain by a large portion of the crew. Possibly why you see no one raising the question as to its use. To me, you are indeed the captain of your vessel! Licensed or not.

Codger2 said:

In the Navy, the word captain is used to describe any officer that is in charge of a Naval vessel. A commander may be the captain of a submarine or a Lt. Commander the captain of a destroyer and so on. Many of TF's members are ex military (A lot of Navy guys, including me!) and may refer to anyone who helms a recreational boat as "The captain." Using the word "Skipper" is synonymous with "Captain" and is used interchangeably with captain by a large portion of the crew. Possibly why you see no one raising the question as to its use. To me, you are indeed the captain of your vessel! Licensed or not.

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Agreed. The license (or military rank) may determine what you're allowed to captain, but the title of Captain applies regardless.

Back to the OP's status post...
My wife (sometimes the Admiral, sometimes First Mate) didn't grow up on boats and doesn't love them like I do. But, we have moved up from ski boats, to small ocean fishing boats to our current 36' Lindell. When she met me I was racing in ocean sailboats and up to recently before I met her worked in the boat business. It was clear I had a boat addiction and being around me meant being around boats if I was going to be happy. One of the first sailing trips offshore before we were married we were on our ear in rough weather and she was down there cooking breakfast. I thought she was a keeper at that point, but she still didn't love boating, but I would say she likes it much better now.
Over the years I've tried not to force it. Often I went on my own, and that is fine. When we first started to go to Catalina, she took the ferry and met me over there. Then she started coming back with me, finally she was comfortable enough to go both ways and actually enjoyed driving for part of it.

So, after several years with our previous 26' Shamrock I started to suggest we move up. It was a bit of a hard sell, but my wife isn't big on change so pushed back a bit. Things changed when we started to look at boats, she became pretty interested, even cruising Yachtworld on her own. We had a lot of fun looking at boats and doing a bit of traveling around the country to check one or the other out.

Now with the new boat she is much more into it and really enjoys being on the boat. I wouldn't say she is super crazy about it like I am, but she is enjoying herself. I hear her talking to friends now about the new boat and she is clearly on board.

I bring all this up to point out to the OP that if your spouse didn't grow up on boats it might take some time to relax and get to enjoy boating. Don't force it, go slow and take small steps and there is a good chance she may come to enjoy boating.

Back to the original subject.... To The OP and any of the “Dreamers” out there

DO NOT pressure your significant other into a lifestyle choice that they do not want, especially something as big as full or part time living aboard.

Also...

DO NOT pressure your significant other into a financial purchase that affects your lifestyle in other ways due to its cost.

If you fail to heed this advice you might find yourself going it alone. IF you want to be in a relationship you NEED to take into consideration your significant others desires and goals.

YES, you only get this one shot at life, but the same goes for your partner. If she (or he) does not want to cruise full time and “live” on a boat that is their decision to make, and theirs alone. You need to communicate with your partner in life and make arrangements that accommodate their needs. That might mean deciding to cruise or boat alone. That might mean choosing a different lifestyle. It might even mean deciding that the two of you are not compatible.

The big thing is that you need to be upfront with those discussions.

ksanders said:

Back to the original subject.... To The OP and any of the “Dreamers” out there

DO NOT pressure your significant other into a lifestyle choice that they do not want, especially something as big as full or part time living aboard.

Also...

DO NOT pressure your significant other into a financial purchase that affects your lifestyle in other ways due to its cost.

If you fail to heed this advice you might find yourself going it alone. IF you want to be in a relationship you NEED to take into consideration your significant others desires and goals.

YES, you only get this one shot at life, but the same goes for your partner. If she (or he) does not want to cruise full time and “live” on a boat that is their decision to make, and theirs alone. You need to communicate with your partner in life and make arrangements that accommodate their needs. That might mean deciding to cruise or boat alone. That might mean choosing a different lifestyle. It might even mean deciding that the two of you are not compatible.

The big thing is that you need to be upfront with those discussions.

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Wifey B: Very well written, Kevin. If you win through pressure, you really will have lost. That kind of win isn't worth it.

I feel for couples whose interests don't match up. If it's small things that take a day here or there, no big deal, but something like RV'ing or Boating or Travel in general or living in the city or country, it's a real challenge.

And that's also why we have terms like "irreconcilable differences" and one really needs to think of what things are worth ending up there.

Sometimes "irreconcilable differences" work out WAY better for one and/or both.

I was single and owner of a GB42 which I lived in when I met my wife. She rode aboard the boat the first day we met. So my boating "baggage" was never in question. The issue I faced fifteen years later was getting her to go along with the idea of downsizing to this 30-footer. And she quite agrees with being referred as the admiral and understands and enjoys the relationship between and admiral and the captain.

rgano said:

I was single and owner of a GB42 which I lived in when I met my wife. She rode aboard the boat the first day we met. So my boating "baggage" was never in question. The issue I faced fifteen years later was getting her to go along with the idea of downsizing to this 30-footer. And she quite agrees with being referred as the admiral and understands and enjoys the relationship between and admiral and the captain.

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I bet you REALLY understand the relationship between captain and admiral....


Don't know your personal life..... but I am sure your Navy career saw that relationship loud and clear.