Help with purchase - Engine report

Hello there!


I'm just starting my trawler/cruiser journey and I'm needing some help making some choices. I'm looking to live aboard full time and do some coastal island hopping in the Canadian west coast. I've come across a Tri-Cabin Trawler that is in my price range - asking 10k CAD https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/1992-Tri-Cabin-Trawler_35979758. It does have engine issues and I'm wondering if it is something someone new to engines can handle. Here is the report https://imgur.com/XhPmrXk


Any advice would be appreciated!

Looks like the engine has been under-maintained for a while.

Fuel valve leak. Assuming it's only the lower fuel valve, it's a nuisance to replace as the tank needs to be emptied. Biggest expense will be time and absorbent diapers.

Coolers and aftercoolers - R&R them isn't more than a few hours, but the actual remediation for Volvo, especially if replacement is needed, could get to several thousand dollars USD (maybe someone with more Volvo knowledge can respond).

Injection lines - odd these need replacement. These tend to be binary - they either work or they don't. When they don't, the engine won't run. Will take a while to source from Volvo.

Raw Water Pump - under 2-hours to do, rebuilld kit is likely fairly reasonably priced. A replacement pump if needed is probably over $500 for a Volvo, perhaps a fair amount over.

Water intake - depends on whether thru-hull is operable and in good shape. If just the hose, well, that's pretty simple. Otherwise will require a haul-out.

Steering hose - curious notation. If it works, I wouldn't worry. If it's leaking, then on the list for repair. Replacing hose isn't usually awful, but takes a while.

Fuel polishing. Tends to vary by location. In San Francisco when I checked a couple years ago, it was pretty dang expensive so I took a chance and didn't do it (worked out fine). A friend recently had 700g tanks polished in Florida and it was $2500, but may have included installing an access plate. A lot of his fuel had to be placed in barrels on the dock. If your fuel is really old and doesn't smell like diesel anymore, getting rid of it is a big pain and involves hazardous waste fees unless you can find someone who wants it - unlikely. I had trouble giving away old diesel in Mexico, a land famous for re-using everything.

If I had to guess at having a decent marine diesel mechanic @ $125/hr-$150/hr attend to this list, I would say $5000 USD minimum, and could easily go to $10k if the coolers need more than basic cleaning.

Best guess only. Good luck!

Peter

seadoggo said:

Hello there!


I'm just starting my trawler/cruiser journey and I'm needing some help making some choices. I'm looking to live aboard full time and do some coastal island hopping in the Canadian west coast. I've come across a Tri-Cabin Trawler that is in my price range - asking 10k CAD https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/1992-Tri-Cabin-Trawler_35979758. It does have engine issues and I'm wondering if it is something someone new to engines can handle. Here is the report https://imgur.com/XhPmrXk


Any advice would be appreciated!

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Have you thought about what it will cost you to own the boat? Before I bought it I would at least make sure I could insure it.

From the report it appears that there is really nothing wrong with the engine. Weebles hit it right. Fix the ancillary things and the engine should be good. With bad fuel, bad injector lines and assorted leaks the engine will NOT run well.

Double check the valve at the bottom of the fuel tank. It could be the deal breaker if it is the tank leaking and not a loose or faulty valve. A tank repair could run you as much as they are asking for the boat.

Do some research on the Volvo engine. They have a terrible reputation for being hard to source parts and expensive parts and labor. KEY WORD "reputation" it may or may not be true but I suspect that in Canada you will have parts issues.

The boat itself looks good.

Go For It !!

pete

I don't see where injection lines are mentioned in the report.

#3 Fuel lines at injection pump. Guess I misread, but could be taken either way.

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

#3 Fuel lines at injection pump. Guess I misread, but could be taken either way.

pete

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I mis-read too. Explains why the engine runs - pressure line and it wouldn't run. Must mean the hose from filter/lift-pump

To the OP - engine surveyor has noted at least two hoses that are deteriorated. I would assume they ALL need to be replaced. I know it seems pretty straightforward to replace hoses, but sometimes there are several of them, and there is always one that is impossible to get off without removing something else. By the time the old ones come off, new ones are sourced, new thermostat, coolant etc, it will approach a full day for a decent mechanic, two days for me (including nap time).

From the engine report, engine doesn't sound bad, but there is a ton of deferred maintenance. Time/effort to bring back to speed is not trivial. Mostly DIY level stuff, but it takes a while. A decent mechanic will also set valves while doing an engine service.

Peter

I hate to rain on anybody's boat-buying parade, but for a person inexperienced in boating and especially with that expensive to maintain engine, I would recommend walking away.

There is going to be a lot of work to get the boat operational. An engine that runs but needs a lot of maintenance after a long period of non use will need a ton of work. (from my own experience). I would also be concerned about shaft seals, shafts, props, it's likely they haven't been maintained either. There may be work that requires extensive time out of the water. All that being said, it is also possible to just continue to use it as a liveaboard with only minimal maintenance, if you can get it insured that way.

sbman said:

There is going to be a lot of work to get the boat operational. An engine that runs but needs a lot of maintenance after a long period of non use will need a ton of work. (from my own experience). I would also be concerned about shaft seals, shafts, props, it's likely they haven't been maintained either. There may be work that requires extensive time out of the water. All that being said, it is also possible to just continue to use it as a liveaboard with only minimal maintenance, if you can get it insured that way.

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I totally agree. 1-1/2 years ago I made the decision to get my Willard 36 from San Francisco to Ensenada MX, a 500 nms trek. She had set unloved for 10-years (life got in the way). For all intents, I did what the OP has in front of them, including the Exhaust Elbow which is listed on the Engine Survey but I forgot to mention. I had a very competent and trusted mechanic go through the engine and replace every hose, every clamp, every pump, and the heat exchanger. For a Perkins 4.236, parts were pretty reasonable. All three pumps (lift pump, raw water pump, and fresh water pump) were around $750. I wouldn't be surprised if these are double or more for the Volvo. I spent around $9k with the mechanic and trusted the work 100% - she ran without a blip for 74-hours straight to Ensenada (plus some sea-trial prior to departure).

I don't disagree with rgano to walk away, though stopped short of saying so as it's the OPs decision on whether he does it via a mechanic as I did, or does it himself and save over half. I probably would have done it myself except I don't trust my abilities as much as I do my mechanic's ability and with my wife and best friend aboard, I felt it was a good place to have a mechanic's special touch.

It does sound like false economy to buy an inexpensive boat and throw money at it. Yet another example of cheap isn't the least expensive.

Peter

rgano said:

I hate to rain on anybody's boat-buying parade, but for a person inexperienced in boating and especially with that expensive to maintain engine, I would recommend walking away.

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David

Thank you everyone! Thank you Peter for giving such an in-depth answer to the report and also the very helpful anecdote. The information and advice you have provided will really help me as a first time buyer. I will continue to read the forum to be more informed as this is all new to me. I have lots to take away from this thread and definitely learning to manage my expectations is a big one. Feeling very lucky to have found this forum so early in my search. Cheers!

Great advice so far on the engine. I'm not a mechanic but most things will eventually succumb to perseverance, research, and time. Lots and lots of time. Not to mention aggravation and money...


2 red flags to your first post and while I don't want to rain on your dreams, you mentioned a budget of 10k CAD and live aboard. If your price range for your new home is 10k CAD, then I'm not sure you can afford living on a boat. $10k is nothing. Your ongoing expenses just with insurance, moorage, and fixing things are the items to look at.

dhays said:

Great advice so far on the engine. I'm not a mechanic but most things will eventually succumb to perseverance, research, and time. Lots and lots of time. Not to mention aggravation and money...


2 red flags to your first post and while I don't want to rain on your dreams, you mentioned a budget of 10k CAD and live aboard. If your price range for your new home is 10k CAD, then I'm not sure you can afford living on a boat. $10k is nothing. Your ongoing expenses just with insurance, moorage, and fixing things are the items to look at.

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Absolutely considering this as well. I have the time due to Covid but also not as much funds because of Covid. As far as budgeting goes, I totally understand and that is a big factor. The same could be said about apartment rental prices here which is why I'm considering a boat which under the right conditions might actually be less than a rental lease. I'll make sure to consider and ask about insurance and marina fees on the boats I look at but if the marina+insurance+maintenance is lower than my current rent and rental prospects, I'd go with a boat!

seadoggo said:

Absolutely considering this as well. I have the time due to Covid but also not as much funds because of Covid. As far as budgeting goes, I totally understand and that is a big factor. The same could be said about apartment rental prices here which is why I'm considering a boat which under the right conditions might actually be less than a rental lease. I'll make sure to consider and ask about insurance and marina fees on the boats I look at but if the marina+insurance+maintenance is lower than my current rent and rental prospects, I'd go with a boat!

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Living on a boat that doesn't run may cost less than living on land. Just make sure you can find a marina that will let you do it and what it will cost besides dockage rates. Most marinas will have an additional charge for living aboard. Some even charge for parking. You need to get all of that straightened out before you buy the boat. Just because the owner has insurance doesn't mean you can get it. Same with the slip. Take everything the owner says with a grain of salt. He may be telling the truth but his situation may not convey to you. Don't forget about the little things like a toilet that works, hot water, heat and cable. It starts to look a lot like camping without those things. Camping might also be an option less expensive than an apartment. Probably not as sexy as living on a boat but tents cost a lot less than boats.

Definitely! Living on a boat is sounds romantic and nice at a first glance but after looking into the nitty gritty is a world full of compromises and work. It does offer new experiences that greatly appeal to me but I am more and more aware of the fine print as I go along! Thank you for bringing more for me to learn.

You are still going to need a "dirt" home. When the weather turns cold you will be paying double rent. Storage rates on the hard are a minimum a couple hundred a month maybe somewhat less if you shop for a cheap marina.

Paying to store your boat will come close to eating up the savings you made by living aboard in the summer.

I almost never tell people not to buy a particular boat . This purchase, coupled with the boat problems, the location, your budget and ability to do repairs yourself adds up to a "Proceed with Utmost Caution"

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

You are still going to need a "dirt" home. When the weather turns cold you will be paying double rent. Storage rates on the hard are a minimum a couple hundred a month maybe somewhat less if you shop for a cheap marina.

Paying to store your boat will come close to eating up the savings you made by living aboard in the summer.

I almost never tell people not to buy a particular boat . This purchase, coupled with the boat problems, the location, your budget and ability to do repairs yourself adds up to a "Proceed with Utmost Caution"

pete

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The OP is in BC. Boats and boaters stay on the water year round. Heating costs are higher in the winter, risk of electrical fires are greater, but there is no reason not to live on board during the winter if he chooses.

Pete Meisinger said:

You are still going to need a "dirt" home. When the weather turns cold you will be paying double rent. Storage rates on the hard are a minimum a couple hundred a month maybe somewhat less if you shop for a cheap marina.

Paying to store your boat will come close to eating up the savings you made by living aboard in the summer.

I almost never tell people not to buy a particular boat . This purchase, coupled with the boat problems, the location, your budget and ability to do repairs yourself adds up to a "Proceed with Utmost Caution"

pete

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Here in the PNW you don't really need a dirt home in winter. We lived on ours year around this year in a covered slip. Never cost us more than $100 US to electric heat to 70 degrees F when home. That said, it gets awfully claustrophobic in the winter!

If you are just looking for lodging and not mobility, perhaps you could rent the boat from the current owner ?

I've never seen a combination cockpit/aft cabin set up like that. That was very interesting !!

It's a project boat. If you have a complete mechanics toolbox, and know how to use the tools, then it's doable. Volvo parts are expensive and hard to find. I would price the parts before any decision.

Permaglass built mostly commercial fish boats, and as I recall they had a good reputation, so the boat has promise. The size is perfect for a low budget live aboard for one person.
In that era Volvo was a very common engine in the fishing fleet, so you should find knowledgeable tradesmen, and perhaps some local knowledge to help source parts.
I lived aboard happily in that area for a few years in the mid ‘7O’s in a very basic old wooden cruiser of similar size. It was comfortable year round. A Dickinson oil stove and a tiny fireplace using presto logs kept it comfy.
Moorage, insurance, repairs, and continuous maintenance all cost money. Do your homework on the $$, and if you can swing the cost, go for it, that is a great area to live aboard and cruise.

Hi Seadoggo and welcome to the forum. That's an awful lot of boat for the money and, all things being equal, is a real bargain. You are in the finest cruising grounds in the world so, if it were I, I would look seriously at this. From what I understand the original build was quite good. That said, the Volvo engine parts are quite high, Volvo is very proud of their work and assign parts fabrication to highly compensated swedish elves or something. Nothing on that list from your mechanical surveyor would give me pause except the fuel leak at the valve. It might be simple, or it might be a leaky fuel tank. If it's the tank, I would decline the boat. Fuel tanks are expensive to replace probably costing more than the boat itself. This forum is a great place for ideas and advice and you are in a location with skilled resources. So IMHO, check the leak and if it's OK go for it.

boat buying engine problems

rgano said:

I hate to rain on anybody's boat-buying parade, but for a person inexperienced in boating and especially with that expensive to maintain engine, I would recommend walking away.

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I agree. Walk away. There are way too many boats for sale out there that don't have engine problems. Even once you get this engine up and running, you still have a Volvo, which comes with it's own set of issues. Apologies to Volvo owners who are happy.

My only caveat would be, if this is the boat of your dreams that you've been searching for forever and you have very deep pockets, then buy it and do a complete rebuild. Did I read correctly that the price is 10k? If so, you could put $75 k into it and essentially have a new boat for less than most trawlers in average condition sell for. If this is just a boat you found that fits your needs but isn't anything you are madly in love with, walk away and keep looking.

buying a boat engine problems

seadoggo said:

Absolutely considering this as well. I have the time due to Covid but also not as much funds because of Covid. As far as budgeting goes, I totally understand and that is a big factor. The same could be said about apartment rental prices here which is why I'm considering a boat which under the right conditions might actually be less than a rental lease. I'll make sure to consider and ask about insurance and marina fees on the boats I look at but if the marina+insurance+maintenance is lower than my current rent and rental prospects, I'd go with a boat!

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That boat will probably cost you $8,000 US/year (conservatively speaking) all expenses considered. Might go as high as 10k depending on variables. On the other hand, living on a boat would be an adventure for you and might open up a whole new world. Just go into it with eyes wide open and know what you are signing up for. One final caution. If living aboard turns out to not be for you, boats don't sell overnight and you have to continue to dock, insure and maintain them while they are "for sale". Most people aren't looking for a project boat so they typically take longer to sell. Consider re sell value and ease when buying, just as you would do when buying a house.

Good luck!

10k boat

I can't imagine a boat listed for this price is a good investment. Too much wrong.$$$$ big money for repair, double your repair estimate to cover the unknown things not identified in the survey. I'd be concerned about shaft pitting and prop electrolysis

Find a boat that has been lovingly cared for and still budget $10,000 for repairs. Insurance, mooring, utility and taxes will be at least $1,000 a month

All the marina's where I have lived aboard in BC require insurance and engine running to achieve moorage. Some also require a holding tank. Check to see what this particular marina requires and if you can be grandfathered into the berth? Ascertain that you can meet these requirements before moving forward with the other concerns.

I owned a Permaglass 38' freezer troller for many years. She was fairly well built and finished. She had some problems but every boat does. She was better built and finished to yacht standards that most commercial boats of her day. So the actual boat is likely not an issue?


From the survey it is obvious that much work has been identified as needing attention. More work than any survey of any vessel I purchased to date. Having owned boats for over 50 years I would bet that even the best mechanical inspection would have missed some important, needed repairs. Rest assured that once you start these repairs other items will rear there ugly heads. Most costing more labour and money.

This could two bit or rather hundred dollar you into wishing you never tackle the project? It could also be a reasonably good deal? It all depends on investigating the details, details, details.

I would not say don't buy it but I would say cost out repairs, chase down other items mentioned above, then decide. But, accept that it will still likely cost you more than you calculated, possibly much more? If you are looking for a cheap vessel, or a reasonable cost one, this may not be that boat even with the initially low purchase price?

Several other cautions. Check into parts availability for that particular (model) of engine. Even some relatively new Volvo engines are hard to source parts for! It varies by model. Hard to repair an engine if you can't get the needed parts.

Many marinas do not allow live aboards or at least limit the number they allow. They almost always have several requirements. Check into all of this ahead of time.
Insurance. Some insurance companies will not even insure boats over a certain age. Most companies require a full survey and then require that ALL LISTED repairs are completed within a certain time period (likely only a couple of months). Failure to do so will void coverage. Check into insurance carefully prior to purchase or put a clause in the offer.
Another area to be aware of, in the winter, living aboard can be cold and/or damp. Breathing, heating, cooking, etc. will increase humidity and create condensation. Ventiliating (cold), or heating and running a dehumidifier is probably required in these parts.
Just for info, when I purchased my boat (a 2002 model), it was found to be in excellent condition. I still spent over $30,000 repairing, setting a baseline for maintenance, and updating a few things. I still have 18 year old electronics, so no money spent there. This was for a boat in very good condition! Moorage here in Nanaimo is approx. $500+ per month (for 40 feet). Electricity is a flate rate of $80 per month, and insurance is about $150 to $200 per month. Also remember the old adage: "everything on your boat is broken, you just don't know it yet." Need to have funds for repair, maintenance, and add ons.

What do you want to do with the boat, dock queen live aboard or an actual cruising boat? If you want a dock queen there are a couple of things need repairing, the fuel leak and the intake hose. If you want to cruise it then they all need fixing. And since it is a Volvo engine, the parts may or may not be available. If they are available then the cost of the parts alone may approach the price of the boat. I am not a fan of Volvos due to parts availability, parts cost and lack of support for the older engines. YMMV though.