Using Your AP on Routes

Does anyone ever use their AP and ChartPlotter/GPS to run routes - either with or without manual authorization to change course?

I have the capability, but frankly can never see the reason why I would ever do so.

I use the AP to run the ICW so that is clearly changing course by degrees so not applicable to this conversation.

But when I run to the islands, say from The Berries to Allen Cay in the Exumas I have all the waypoints in and could set an auto route through Porgee Rocks etc. east of Nassau.

But I would much rather set it waypoint by waypoint and be in total control. Clearly then I need to use my chartbook or other list of the waypoints in order, selecting the next waypoint and using Go To, but that is a simple process.

Anyone use auto routes?

I do just like you. I like being very involved in what the boat is doing and where it is pointed. Sometimes you get to a waypoint and realize you charted the route wrong vis a vis what is actually ahead of you (obstructions, or just poor planning). I also find myself adjusting course along the way, so may not be near the plotted waypoint when it is time to turn.

I'm on autopilot 95%. When using the NAV feature, I find it faster to find the next waypoint on the plotter, highlight it, and then NAV to it.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I'm on autopilot 95%. When using the NAV feature, I find it faster to find the next waypoint on the plotter, highlight it, and then NAV to it.

Ted

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Same here, so waypoint by waypoint and not an entered route?

I do so all the time, and I change the permission level from Auto to Manual depending on route. Relieving me of the need to constantly steer at my normal 16 MPH allows me to maintain a better lookout and to tend to other things on the console, especially at night when I have radar overlay, target trails, and ARP engaged to auto for new targets and with searchlight on auto panning mode when closing on NAVAIDS. I get an alarm when approaching waypoints regardless of permission mode. When in narrow waters, I may shift back and forth from the AP route following NAV to course maintaining AUTO mode at the push of a button. Just to say the system can do it, I once ran 20 MPH up my bayou to my home which includes seven NAVAIDs and five waypoints with the final waterway width of 200 yards and last course change 60 degrees, and then I did it in the dark, experts only. Coming down the AICW in March-April through waters I have never seen before, I set routes out for each day, and I had the AP (this was a 7.5 knot boat) route following whenever the waters were open enough. Sometimes I would elect to change the next waypoint a bit to avoid a shoal more widely or to round a point with more room while the AP was locked on that WP and just let it adjust appropriately to the changed position of the WP. When it got "windey," it was too hard for the AP and nerve wracking for me; so back to manual steering, but the route-of-the-day information regarding DTG and ETA etc was there when I needed it, and as soon as waters widened, the AP was put back on the route like a bloodhound.

I run preprogrammed routes almost every time we go out. Works great but I keep a constant vigilence and am always ready to hit the button and take control. When not on full Nav, following a route, I’m typically on Auto and using the AP control knob to steer. I’ve gone weeks without actually touching the wheel.

I have routes throughout the inside passage. AP follows it from waypoint to waypoint. Wouldn't have it any other way. Course changes over 6 degrees are tough but otherwise I let it roll

I do the same thing you do. But one argument for doing it in full auto mode is the amount of time you spend "heads down". I do catch myself jacking with the next waypoint when I should be watching where I am going.....granted I run on plane at 20 knots. I only use heading mode(or steer manually) in tight quarters like the ICW.

Baker said:

I do the same thing you do. But one argument for doing it in full auto mode is the amount of time you spend "heads down". I do catch myself jacking with the next waypoint when I should be watching where I am going.....granted I run on plane at 20 knots. I only use heading mode(or steer manually) in tight quarters like the ICW.

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If the heading change is quite large I will "Go To" the next heading on the chartplotter, but handle the helm manually until I am either on the heading or a couple of degrees off and then engage the AP. This results in a smoother managed transition.

menzies said:

If the heading change is quite large I will "Go To" the next heading on the chartplotter, but handle the helm manually until I am either on the heading or a couple of degrees off and then engage the AP. This results in a smoother managed transition.

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Yep....a very common technique an an airplane so the thing doesn't yank over n a 30 degree bank to capture the course. THe problem being that if there is a significant course change, it marks the point at which you execute the command and doing a high rate of speed, your XTE increases rapidly until you get pointed in the right direction.

As I say that....on one aircraft I used to fly I would actually put it into NAV mode before selecting the GOTO or Course. I would get the normal message "NOT ON INTERCEPT HEADING" or something like that. I would then select the GOTO waypoint and the tansition to the course would be perfectly smooth. I am going to try that on the boat and see if it works.

I have 20 routes already programmed in. There are only 4 options when leaving my home berth so I select the appropriate route before I even leave the dock.

Now if I am leaving early in the morning I will use the Track feature and the AP will not deviate more than 25’ from the track line. It also won’t continue to the next waypoint until I acknowledge reaching the current waypoint.

If I am traveling during the 9am-6pm time frame I will control the AP manually, this makes it easier to navigate around the traffic and makes me more predictable to other traffic. I still leave the route lines up as it makes it easier dial in an appropriate AP heading.

Use AP most all the time (definitely not in narrow waters), not counting embarking and disembarking maneuvers. Nevertheless, remaining at the helm, observing.

Baker said:

Yep....a very common technique an an airplane so the thing doesn't yank over n a 30 degree bank to capture the course. THe problem being that if there is a significant course change, it marks the point at which you execute the command and doing a high rate of speed, your XTE increases rapidly until you get pointed in the right direction.

As I say that....on one aircraft I used to fly I would actually put it into NAV mode before selecting the GOTO or Course. I would get the normal message "NOT ON INTERCEPT HEADING" or something like that. I would then select the GOTO waypoint and the tansition to the course would be perfectly smooth. I am going to try that on the boat and see if it works.

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At eight knots that is never an issue!

markpierce said:

Use AP most all the time (definitely not in narrow waters), not counting embarking and disembarking maneuvers. Nevertheless, remaining at the helm, observing.

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The question is on using routes - i.e. multiple waypoints
mnaged automatically by your AP.

menzies said:

The question is on using routes - i.e. multiple waypoints
mnaged automatically by your AP.

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Don't use them

I plot the next days route on the plotter like I used to do on paper charts. We do 8 knots.

We run the route using the Nav feature. The AP asks permission for every course change and we acknowledge. We use the Dodge feature to go around floating debris and other boats. We use the Nav feature 95% of time while on AP.

Here in the PNW with strong currents, the Nav feature can steer a lot more accurately and faster as the tidal strength and direction changes. Also in certain areas with rocks just below the surface, such as Beware Passage in the Broughtons, the Nav feature can make the sharp turns between rocks, with current running, a lot faster and more accurately than I could. It takes a while before the trust builds.

I usually use a route and NAV to destination, and one reason is to have an ETA. Often I will go to AUTO or manual steering to dodge a bunch of trailer boats that are fishing, but when clear of them its back to NAV. At times I will just click & drag the waypoint instead.

When returning to my marina, in the city but 12nm upriver from the Port of Brisbane, I select the existing route that is a bunch of straight segments in a curvy river. I activate the route to get an ETA to the marina as I like slack tide to dock. I adjust my speed if required to arrive at slack tide. But I always use AUTO rather than NAV while in the river due to traffic etc.

I thought that function was only for nooners.

I’m an “auto-route kinda guy”. As noted, in the PacNW the system does a great job of eliminating. Ross track error. Our Axiom/Navionics creates the route and our auto pillow follows the route. EVERY turn requires my intervention. As a result there are times I will select a waypoint farther along g and change to “auto route from here”. I feel that using these tools usually creates the most efficient routing and piloting. It frees me to watch the waters for all the floating crap we have up here; I bet 50% of the time I have to “dodge” but then it’s hit the “track” button and we’re back on course. We *never* leave the helm unattended. I’m not distracted by trying to enter the next waypoint, etc. and it is much less fatiguing.

The one major downside in the San Juans are all the charter boats using Navionics auto routing. We’re all on the same or reciprocal courses!

Last week I let the AP follow a route through Rocky Pass and it worked well. I have to acknowledge each turn, but not a problem. I always use a route on a long straight passage so the AP compensates for wind and current.

Tom

I'll activate a route so I can get a full ETA but I'm usually too impatient to wait and let the course change without intervention. But it really depends on the trip. My 500nms trip from SF to Ensenada last year had about 10 waypoints. Contrast to a trip on a friend's boat in the ICW - 10 waypoints wouldn't get us out of his canal .

While a waypoint arrival alarm is appropriate, I want the turn to be made even if unacknowledged (unmanned) vs continuing on old bearing past way point. There was a reason for the waypoint - failure to make the turn very likely has consequences..

Peter

Overall, I probably use the auto-pilot tracking feature 10% of the time. Mostly on long runs with few course changes. While tracking, I always have to manually confirm course changes at each waypoint. This is a good thing, in my opinion.
I use Navionics auto-routing only on the most simplest of routes...and even then, I don't think I'm close to the point to where I trust it yet. It's primary benefit, in my opinion, is to put the waypoints on the chart for you to check and tweak. Not for you to blindly trust.


Like mvweebles, I almost always set up and start a route for the benefit of the ETA feature.

I use routes and the Nav function to follow them probably 95% of the time we are underway. Prior to departure I research and lay out the route. Then while underway you are looking it over again and can make fine tuning adjustments. It's also a very important part of planning many passages where you need to hit certain areas within a tight window of time. I can play with the departure time to get the desired arrival time at a pass where I need slack current, for example.



Our autopilot alerts when there is a waypoint change, and you need to acknowledge to silence it. But I have it set to make the turn regardless. I think that's safer than the alternative.


I think a lot may have to do with whatever charting system you use, and how easy or difficult it is to create and modify routes. The chart plotters I have owned (Raymarine C120, Furuno NN3D, and Furuno TZtouch) were all instruments of torture when it came to creating and editing routes, so I didn't use them. It was when I started using Coastal Explorer that routes because easy and useful. You just click click click with the mouse to drop waypoints along your route, and can double click along an existing route to insert an additional waypoint. I usually do a rough plot of the route first, then go though segment by segment to inspect and tidy it up. Then each segment gets checked again while underway, and any waypoints can be moved by simply dragging them. A mouse or equivalent makes all the difference in the world.


Also, once you have established routes and have run them, they become very handy resources the next time you are in the area. I have a whole bunch of them for various tight passages, and I know they are good routes. And others have given me their routes for passes.

No I do not use routes. My AP wanders off the base course too much (+/- 120 ft) to trust in in any close quarters or complicated route. Not to mention the chart-to-real life differences. No thanks.

When Loran and GPS and autopilot were young there were lots of stories about people who set a straight course for their home marina, got distracted or fell asleep and ran aground on a jetty of land or an island or whatever.

In theory I could set my waypoints with A/P and negotiate the five miles of river between me and the open water without any intervention on my part. It just doesn't seem like a good plan. Even on open water I like to be in more control.

pete

To me, the time it makes sense is in fairly open spaces where there's no obvious visual indication that it's time to turn. Letting the A/P make the turn means you're looking up / around and not watching the instruments to see when it's time to turn. Of course, as Pete pointed out about being in control, I'd still be ready to kick the A/P off and take over (or make a manual adjustment to the A/P) at any point, particularly if there's traffic around.

tpbrady said:

Last week I let the AP follow a route through Rocky Pass and it worked well. I have to acknowledge each turn, but not a problem. I always use a route on a long straight passage so the AP compensates for wind and current. Tom

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Great to see some AK cruisers reporting in. We've never done the full Rocky Pass. How was the kelp? With your excellent four legged mate is it one bark for hard a port, or two? How's the fishing? We're envious and I betcha ASD is too.

I used routes once... to learn how to do it.

Otherwise, I only used either the "go straight" of "go to waypoint" mode on our AP.

Partly, too lazy to create routes; partly not much benefit -- for me -- from doing all that work; partly because our normal boating area doesn't really need much "routing;" partly because I enjoy driving the boat and using routes would reduce some of that.

-Chris

I have used my cheap, older pilot (Ravmarineon 5000) on Track/route in a long straight canal (Alligator/Pungo for those who know it) as a test and it kept me pretty well centered for around 8 miles. Other canals too but this was the longest leg I tried.

Not every boat, pilot, pilot settings will perform the same....but with the right combo....it will generally outsteer most of us except in wild conditions.

MV Wanderlust said:

When not on full Nav, following a route, I’m typically on Auto and using the AP control knob to steer.

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Same here. It keeps me in control and I enjoy steering with the "small wheel."