Liveaboard insurance help?

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r3markabl3

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Hello! Was having a hard time getting liveaboard insurance for 1977 trojan f-32 with $1m in liability (Marina requires it), about two years boating/nautical experience but never personal owned my own boat but have CAPT I’m training with for my particular boat.

I know lots of stipulations but anyone have a good recommendation for insurance company?
 
r3markabl3 said:
Hello! Was having a hard time getting liveaboard insurance for 1977 trojan f-32 with $1m in liability (Marina requires it), about two years boating/nautical experience but never personal owned my own boat but have CAPT I’m training with for my particular boat.

I know lots of stipulations but anyone have a good recommendation for insurance company?
Click to expand...

PM me- I should be able to assist.
 
Here's some advice.....DONT TELL YOUR INSURANCE YOU'RE A FULL TIMER. It's none of their business.
 
South of Heaven said:
Here's some advice.....DONT TELL YOUR INSURANCE YOU'RE A FULL TIMER. It's none of their business.
Click to expand...

Absolutely incorrect.

Many insurers specifically do not insure liveaboards, and will flat cancel (cancel back to inception) a policy if thEy discover the insured is a liveaboard.

The insured has a duty to disclose and and all facts material to the risk (the legal term is Uberrima fides, or uttermost good faith).
 
Pau Hana said:
Absolutely incorrect.

Many insurers specifically do not insure liveaboards, and will flat cancel (cancel back to inception) a policy if thEy discover the insured is a liveaboard.

The insured has a duty to disclose and and all facts material to the risk (the legal term is Uberrima fides, or uttermost good faith).
Click to expand...

100% agree, don’t lie to your insurance company. If one company doesn’t offer what you need find another company.
 
I knew my post would elicit some quick responses. Lol. This topic is very regional specific and is nuanced.

Every liveaboard situation is different and it'd be ridiculous to put a blanket statement on every entry (as I did). But a Florida or Alabama liveaboard can't be compared to a New England liveaboard.

There are a myriad of regional specific variables which are so pertinent to the question. It's a moot point...
 
South of Heaven said:
I knew my post would elicit some quick responses. Lol. This topic is very regional specific and is nuanced.

Every liveaboard situation is different and it'd be ridiculous to put a blanket statement on every entry (as I did). But a Florida or Alabama liveaboard can't be compared to a New England liveaboard.

There are a myriad of regional specific variables which are so pertinent to the question. It's a moot point...
Click to expand...

The common denominator is the insurance coverage- has nothing to do with regions of the nation.

Travelers, for example, does not write liveaboard, period,and will flat cancel if they discover you are living aboard- from sea to shining sea. Other carries require to know if their insured is living onboard, and can deny claims if they find out after the fact.

A liveaboard is a liveaboard- period. The only regional differences have to do with windstorm coverages. Liveaboard coverages (which essentially mimic an HO-3 homeowners policy) is the same across the nation.
 
so if I did need live aboard insurance where could i find a company who will do it? Will the big insurance companies (state farm, geico, I’m blanking on the name but the one with flo as the spokes person :) )
 
Grandbanks3642 said:
so if I did need live aboard insurance where could i find a company who will do it? Will the big insurance companies (state farm, geico, I’m blanking on the name but the one with flo as the spokes person :) )
Click to expand...

There are several excellent companies that offer true liveaboard coverage (this means that they include the HO-3 coverages). Give me a shout and let’s discuss options.
 
Peter is a liveaboard, was an underwriter for Gieco and now owns his own agency. He knows the insurance game. I’ve been working with him for over 20 years.
 
Another vote for speaking with Peter!
 
Never lie to your insurance provider!

Echoing what Peter (Pau Hana) and others have said. The advice to not inform your insurance provider that you are a liveaboard was bad, bad advice. Your insurance policy is a contract and you are obligated to tell the truth to the insurance provider.

I have several friends who are now liveaboards and they are great boaters, maintain their boats to the highest standard, and any provider would love to insure them. But there are also idiots who buy the cheapest boat possible, use it as an apartment and know nothing about maintenance.

At any rate, don’t lie.
 
Peter,

From an insurer's point of view, what is a 'liveaboard'?

Is it a period of time or something else?

Jim
 
I know insurance is primarily a numbers game but just wanted to mention some insurance irony in our experience;
When we were away from the boat for longer periods, the insurance company was very emphatic that we explain to them "who is going to watch the boat when you're away?".... Then early this year when we shifted to at least one of us being aboard almost all the time, the agent said they didn't like this either because it means higher incidence of cruising and therefore higher possibility of a claim :facepalm:
I guess they want us to watch the boat very consistently but they'd prefer we do not actually cruise it anywhere.... Ha!
 
JLD said:
Peter,

From an insurer's point of view, what is a 'liveaboard'?

Is it a period of time or something else?

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, it's as easy as a few question:

  • if your vessel is your primary residence, and it burns to the waterline/sinks/is eaten by Godzilla (hey, this IS 2020!)- in other words, a total loss- where will you go to reside?

If the answer is a hotel/couch surf till I figure it out/a family member or friends- you are pretty much a liveaboard. The liveaboard endorsements on a policy will mimic a traditional homeowner's policy by extending the coverages in 3 areas from "onboard or onloading/offloading from the vessel" to "worldwide". These coverages are the liability, medical, and personal effects portions of the policy.

Other questions that are considered:
  • Are you a snowbird that has real property you part time at?
  • Do you own real residential property that is not income producing (rented)?

If you own a house/condo that is not an income producing property, you will most likely be settled in after a calamity in a familiar environment. Thus, you would not be a true liveaboard policy wise, even if you spend months or years onboard- you have a place to go home to.

In either case, be upfront with your agent and carrier- the last thing you want is an awkward conversation if a claim arises, and in discovery your liveaboard status is revealed...
 
sledge said:
I know insurance is primarily a numbers game but just wanted to mention some insurance irony in our experience;
When we were away from the boat for longer periods, the insurance company was very emphatic that we explain to them "who is going to watch the boat when you're away?".... Then early this year when we shifted to at least one of us being aboard almost all the time, the agent said they didn't like this either because it means higher incidence of cruising and therefore higher possibility of a claim :facepalm:
I guess they want us to watch the boat very consistently but they'd prefer we do not actually cruise it anywhere.... Ha!
Click to expand...

It's standard practice to inquire about the status of the boat if your primary residence is over 300-400 miles away, especially if the primary moorage is in a CAT (hurricane) zone. If a storm occurs, who will move the boat to safety (haulout or out of the path of the storm) is critical, as the owner may not be able to get to the vessel in a timely manner to safeguard the vessel.
 
Pau Hana said:
Jim, it's as easy as a few question:

  • if your vessel is your primary residence, and it burns to the waterline/sinks/is eaten by Godzilla (hey, this IS 2020!)- in other words, a total loss- where will you go to reside?

If the answer is a hotel/couch surf till I figure it out/a family member or friends- you are pretty much a liveaboard. The liveaboard endorsements on a policy will mimic a traditional homeowner's policy by extending the coverages in 3 areas from "onboard or onloading/offloading from the vessel" to "worldwide". These coverages are the liability, medical, and personal effects portions of the policy.

Other questions that are considered:
  • Are you a snowbird that has real property you part time at?
  • Do you own real residential property that is not income producing (rented)?

If you own a house/condo that is not an income producing property, you will most likely be settled in after a calamity in a familiar environment. Thus, you would not be a true liveaboard policy wise, even if you spend months or years onboard- you have a place to go home to.

In either case, be upfront with your agent and carrier- the last thing you want is an awkward conversation if a claim arises, and in discovery your liveaboard status is revealed...
Click to expand...


Peter, thank you so much for this! I was going to ask the definition of "Liveaboard" for insurance purposes as well. We are currently looking for our next boat and plan on spending 3 to 6 months at a time on her, alternating with a Class A RV for some of the remainder, and stick and brick for the rest. Lots of confusion out there as to what a liveaboard is. Similar to insurance definition of "full time" for an RV. Some companies say if you spend over a certain cumulative number of days a year sleeping in RV, you are "full time". I've been told from 30 days to 179 days. Others say X number of days at a stretch . . . and the numbers change even with the same insurance company, depending on who you are speaking with!:nonono: We'll be talking when we get closer to choosing the boat. . .
 
Peter- If we still own a home but spend most of year onboard, does that qualify as a live aboard? We live in st. Lucie County, Fl, near Ft. Pierce. And am I correct i assuming live aboard insurance is more costly?
Thanks
Rick
 
Just curious, but sure seems like a live a board would be a lower risk. He's there all the time to watch the boat, regardless of where it is. He's also there to better maintain it as it's his home, so he'd most likely have things up to snuff.


Would think a higher risk is one that keeps his boat at a marina in Fl during hurricane season and commutes several hundred miles to home. Not there to watch it, and a marina certainly has more risk than a private dock.


Is this correct?
 
Sorry for the delay in answering- been tending to my wife due to a serious infection...it’s been rather all consuming.


Monk36 said:
Peter- If we still own a home but spend most of year onboard, does that qualify as a live aboard? We live in st. Lucie County, Fl, near Ft. Pierce. And am I correct i assuming live aboard insurance is more costly?
Thanks
Rick
Click to expand...

In your situation, you wouldn’t be considered a liveaboard, as you have a place to lay your head. Plus, your homeowners policy affords you the same coverages as the liveaboard endorsement.

Seevee said:
Just curious, but sure seems like a live a board would be a lower risk. He's there all the time to watch the boat, regardless of where it is. He's also there to better maintain it as it's his home, so he'd most likely have things up to snuff.


Would think a higher risk is one that keeps his boat at a marina in Fl during hurricane season and commutes several hundred miles to home. Not there to watch it, and a marina certainly has more risk than a private dock.


Is this correct?
Click to expand...

I agree that liveaboards should constitute a lower risk group- but, actuarially speaking, the same things that make a liveaboard a lower risk (constantly onboard to monitor the vessel/repair faults) also tend to lead to higher rates due to higher claims frequency and severity.
 
Pau Hana said:
Sorry for the delay in answering- been tending to my wife due to a serious infection...it’s been rather all consuming.




In your situation, you wouldn’t be considered a liveaboard, as you have a place to lay your head. Plus, your homeowners policy affords you the same coverages as the liveaboard endorsement.



I agree that liveaboards should constitute a lower risk group- but, actuarially speaking, the same things that make a liveaboard a lower risk (constantly onboard to monitor the vessel/repair faults) also tend to lead to higher rates due to higher claims frequency and severity.
Click to expand...

I hope Mrs. Pete is feeling better!
 
Pau Hana said:
Sorry for the delay in answering- been tending to my wife due to a serious infection...it’s been rather all consuming.
Click to expand...


Yes, take care of the wife... infections ARE very serious.
 
Thanks for the kinds words, all- the Admiral is well!
 
Reading between the lines. Rent or own a residence within a short drive to the boat. That implies you're likely to visit it regularly/daily. It also shows that you're able to tend to the boat in case of a named storm event. Personally, I'm researching a move and will try to find a residence and marina that are near each other. I'll visit the boat more and have the best chances for insurance coverage. Not everyone can do that.
 
Try https://www.gowrie.com/ they pulled a big assed rabbit out of the hat for me....

All this talk about subverting the truth, this is all highly bad advice. There are only a few conditions under which insurance can deny a claim, and any fraudulent statement on the application allows them to void the policy.
 
Last edited:
Agreed. Lies by omission are likely to cause claim payout issues as well.
 
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