Anchor chain

Tidahapah said:

With my own anchor /chain/windlass set up I can not fit a chain counter. So over the years I have tried various systems. Recently I went back to the in link coloured markers (gummy bears) and after 24 months I am not having ant problems. I mark my chain every 10 mts with about 5 markers so they can't be missed and use Red, Yellow. Blue , Green. After 40 mts I start to use guess work. I carry 110 mts of 1/2" proof short link anchor chain.
I very rarely anchor in any depth over 20 mts.

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Highly visible markers are a good thing, but over time, I used to have trouble with the paint disappearing or the plastic markers getting pulled off. In order to more easily relocate the location for paint or plastic marking, I resorted to using the solid core copper wiring from some house wiring to permanently mark the chain. I used a repeating pattern of three wraps around one side of a link at whatever interval of chain I wanted to mark. One link wrapped at the first interval, then two, then three, then repeat to pattern. The wildcat couldn't tear that system up.

Nomad Willy said:

So many things in trawlering like chain counters are just an unnecessary toy.

Engines, props, anchors, bilge pumps, radios, windows ...
Just huck-um over the side and be a real man.

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LOL Sure, Eric and those sissies that ride horses with a bridle and saddle make me laugh! Anyone nows that riding bareback with just a hackamor is what real men do!

Peter B said:

Ok, so everyone has 20:20 night vision, right..?

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Ever anchored on a black night Peter?
I never have .. at least that I recall.
I admit the counter is a clever idea but really who needs it?
On the Willard Owners Group (Yahoo) we have/had a professor that made a counter based on the principal that every link was equal length and it counted links. I assume your counter and all the others work the same. All of us creative people need something to challenge us. I experiment w anchors and you conceive and build a chain counter. We both came out smell’in good I assume. Neither one of us had a bad experience as a result of our messing around .. that I know of. I didn’t and I assume you didn’t.

Hope you’re all well and happy down there Peter. We are

Walt .... I’ll pass on the jackhammer. You be da man.

backinblue said:

Although you are correct, it seems more complicated that it needs to be. All you need to know is the true depth of water at high tide + height of your bow roller from the water. Take that and multiply by whatever scope you want (4 or 5 or 7) and pay out that much chain/rope.

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Agree. The question is what is the true depth of water at high tide. I simply outline the steps I use to get an accurate answer to that. The calculation is simple and it uses real time data.

The point I was trying to make is that 92 feet of rode in 12 feet of water....seems like a lot until you do the calculation, using your simple method or my more detailed one.

Coastal Cruiser said:

Agree. The question is what is the true depth of water at high tide. I simply outline the steps I use to get an accurate answer to that. The calculation is simple and it uses real time data.

The point I was trying to make is that 92 feet of rode in 12 feet of water....seems like a lot until you do the calculation, using your simple method or my more detailed one.

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I agree with you and didn't mean to sound critical. My depthsounder is calibrated to read true depth of the water. So I add 5' height of my bow to that and also add the estimated rise in tide based on tide tables. But your point is well taken. If you just look at your depth gauge and let out 5:1 or whatever scope you want, that is only part of the equation and not nearly close to being enough. Thanks for your input!

Caballero II said:

I tried those plastic "gummy bear" markers. My chain spit them out with a vengeance. I keep finding them all over my foredeck. I would have gone back to spray paint, but for the hassle of having to repeat that every so often because it does wear out. This time I tried colored wire ties to code for each 30", easy to divide, converts to fathoms, and so forth. I note that the windlass does chew them up a bit, but replacing so far is easier than laying the chain along the dock and spray painting.

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I meant each 30 feet.

Nomad Willy said:

On the Willard Owners Group (Yahoo) we have/had a professor that made a counter based on the principal that every link was equal length and it counted links. I assume your counter and all the others work the same.

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They don't! Mine and most others count the revolutions of the windlass gypsy that has a small magnet installed in a pocket on the gypsy. A sensor mounted just below the gypsy's wheel counts each time the magnet passes over it. 1 revolution on my gypsy is a little over 11 inches in circumference. So, 10 revolutions is very close to 10 feet of chain which is deemed close enough for anchoring info. On a dark night, it has an LED so that the depth is easily seen.

(Don't take this personally, Eric as a lot of people don't know how chain counters work!) Just another helpful tip from Jim Venture.

I just count the seconds with about three feet of chain per second based on observation/experience on my boat.

Sliding a sentinel/Kellet about 15’ further down a nylon anchor line than the depth can reduce the risk of another boater’s prop cutting your anchor line. For infrequent use a big Clorox bottle full of sand topped off with water to push out the air will take the anchor line down in very light conditions, lead shot is better. But something is better than nothing between chain (I use 50’) and the boat.

NCheaven,
What is the weight of your Kellet?
I made a 12lb kellet out of ballast weights for fishing gear.
Was something Rex in Australia recommended re my lightweight ground tackle.
Survived two 50 knot gales w/o the kellet. Motivation to use it kinda dried up after that. I still have it aboard though.

markpierce said:

I just count the seconds with about three feet of chain per second based on observation/experience on my boat.

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Same here. 15 seconds of down windless is about 25 feet of chain on my boat.

NCheaven said:

Sliding a sentinel/Kellet about 15’ further down a nylon anchor line than the depth can reduce the risk of another boater’s prop cutting your anchor line. For infrequent use a big Clorox bottle full of sand topped off with water to push out the air will take the anchor line down in very light conditions, lead shot is better. But something is better than nothing between chain (I use 50’) and the boat.

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My kellet. 26 pounds machined from a billet of stainless steel.

rgano said:

My kellet. 26 pounds machined from a billet of stainless steel.

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Nice job Rich. Might as well do it right!

backinblue said:

Nice job Rich. Might as well do it right!

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It's a bit of gummint surplus.

Rich - outstanding! I’m guessing my Clorox bottle with sand/water is around 10 to 12 pounds, enough take the line down, not much use in dampening chop. 15 kg - 33 lb. Rockna on our boat with 50’ chain, 150’ nylon is adequate ground tackle in our shallow NC waters. Deepest point in Albemarle and Pamlico Sounds is reported to be 25’.

I must say I had a good laugh at the contrast between those who have worked out sophisticated calculations as to rode length needed to be able to sleep tight knowing they've put out exactly the correct amount to give them an exact 5:1 or 4:1 rode at anchor, versus those who are just happy with the old one-potato-two-potato-three-potato approach, that gives them about x length of rode out.

Those of us with chain counters just total up the depth, allow whatever for tidal rise, add about a coupla metres for the height of the bow, and considering conditions, put out what seems to be about right by the counter, and settle down quite happily...day or night...eh Walt..?

NCheaven said:

Rich - outstanding! I’m guessing my Clorox bottle with sand/water is around 10 to 12 pounds, enough take the line down, not much use in dampening chop. 15 kg - 33 lb. Rockna on our boat with 50’ chain, 150’ nylon is adequate ground tackle in our shallow NC waters. Deepest point in Albemarle and Pamlico Sounds is reported to be 25’.

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With a 33lb Rocna you won’t need the kellet for catenary and performance.

Nothing beats lead for a kellet. Because of the density, 20# of lead would have the same effect as 26# of stainless steel. There was a YouTube video that showed a fancy aluminum kellet being demonstrated on the dock. Yes, but drop it in the water and it is nothing compared to the same weight of lead. A clorox bottle filled with sand and water would sink, but not do much once in the water. In fact 3 or 4 pounds of the water in the bottle does absolutely nothing.

Here is an "Alaskan Sleeping Pill" that should do the job. For a while, people were shipping lead ingots in USPS flat rate boxes. I don't know if the Postal Service put a stop to that.

Marco Flamingo said:

Nothing beats lead for a kellet. Because of the density, 20# of lead would have the same effect as 26# of stainless steel. There was a YouTube video that showed a fancy aluminum kellet being demonstrated on the dock. Yes, but drop it in the water and it is nothing compared to the same weight of lead. A clorox bottle filled with sand and water would sink, but not do much once in the water. In fact 3 or 4 pounds of the water in the bottle does absolutely nothing.

Here is an "Alaskan Sleeping Pill" that should do the job. For a while, people were shipping lead ingots in USPS flat rate boxes. I don't know if the Postal Service put a stop to that.

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Great point about density of material once submerged. As an example, tie a 20lb log to your rode and it will float! I won't argue that kellets have their place in certain situations. In 40-odd years of boating I've never used one and don't think most people need them in general, especially the people here who like to use 100s of ft of chain. Most anchoring issues are either inadequate ground tackle, or improper scope or setting. Rather than adding kellets, a better idea might be to go up a size in your primary anchor and never worry about it. My boat was supplied from the factory with a 22 lb danforth. It dragged a couple times and I always thought it was undersized. I upgraded to a 35 lb Ultra anchor and now never worry. As their motto says, "drop it, set it, forget it". I know it's crazy expensive, but so is boating in general. A coast guard instructor taught me long ago, "when buying a piece of equipment, buy the best one there is for the intended purpose."

Kellets are fun to play with, until someone is dragging down on you in 50 mph winds/rain with green water splashing over the bow. The extra time to un-kellet might make a difference?

Peter B said:

Those of us with chain counters just total up the depth, allow whatever for tidal rise, add about a coupla metres for the height of the bow, and considering conditions, put out what seems to be about right by the counter, and settle down quite happily...day or night...eh Walt..?

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Absolutely correct! If I live to be a "thousand", I will never understand why anyone would question the value of a chain counter! Expensive anchors, expensive chain, expensive electronics, etc. but don't think a chain counter is worth it!

I strongly considered a chain counter when I put in my new windlass. There were 2 things that stopped me. Reviews indicated they're quite accurate with chain, but not so much with the line portion of a mixed rode. On top of that, I like to stand on the bow to see what's going on while anchoring anyway (with the admiral at the helm). The wireless chain counters are very expensive, so I decided it wasn't worth it, considering reading marks on the rode is easy enough. And if I ever have to drop from the helm, as long as I'm standing I can see the rode coming off the windlass to see the marks.

jeffnick said:

Kellets are fun to play with, until someone is dragging down on you in 50 mph winds/rain with green water splashing over the bow. The extra time to un-kellet might make a difference?

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Very true. I would think the time I would want a kellet would be in benign anchoring conditions in a relatively confined (either by geography or other vessels) anchorage.

rslifkin said:

I strongly considered a chain counter when I put in my new windlass. There were 2 things that stopped me. Reviews indicated they're quite accurate with chain, but not so much with the line portion of a mixed rode.....The wireless chain counters are very expensive, so I decided it wasn't worth it, considering reading marks on the rode is easy enough. And if I ever have to drop from the helm, as long as I'm standing I can see the rode coming off the windlass to see the marks.

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I have all chain & I don't believe in wireless for that application and I had a problem seeing my painted markers at night. BTW, Anchoring from the helm is one of the big advantages of having a chain counter!

Every time I read an anchor thread on TF I pine for the pre Internet days when I just threw the hook over the bow per Chapman and forgot about it.

sunchaser said:

Every time I read an anchor thread on TF I pine for the pre Internet days when I just threw the hook over the bow per Chapman and forgot about it.

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LOL

sunchaser said:

Every time I read an anchor thread on TF I pine for the pre Internet days when I just threw the hook over the bow per Chapman and forgot about it.

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The Chapman chain counter. One for the main. Check. One for the spare. Check. Total is two. Done.

The kellet shines in a storm or other similar situation. It allows one to have and use a much smaller anchor 90% of the time.

But many here don’t even lay a hand on the anchor or even the rode. Much can be learned from the vibrations of the rode under tension.
And if/when your winch quits (I’ve read of that many times here on TF) you have a much easier time of it retrieving your ground tackle. First the kellet and then the rode and anchor.

You can keep the kellet line and use it for anchor retrieval after removing the kellet.

You could retain your inexpensive anchor that has only medium performance (Like a Claw) and use a heavy kellet. Can’t imagine an anchor that wouldn’t perform considerably better w a kellet. You could even consider it inside ballast. Retain a slim deep diving anchor and insure it dosn’t lack for not having ballast.

Both kellets and snubbers? Too much inconvenience. Get one's self to a safe anchorage or marina. Personally, don't see a benefit off a kellet on an all-chain rode. Snub is the word.

Why use a kellet to make up for an undersized anchor? Fix the root cause rather than a bandaid. I don't argue a kellet is useful in certain situations, but 99% of the time if you have adequate ground tackle and know how to use it, it's not necessary.