fuel injection pump

I have sabre lehman 4D254 , 90 HP.* i have the owner manual and there is nothing about the injection pump...except part number.

I would like to know if i have to change oil in this pump and how to do it ( if i have to)

Some guys came on my boat to check and were not able to show me how to do it. Another one told me that i don't have to do it because it is done automatically when i do the oil change on my motor.

on the pump it says :* MINIMEC******* CAV- ENGLAND.

if i have to drain the oil in the pump...do i have to bleed the pump after?

From your photos it appears that your pump is lubed by the engine's lube oil. I'm saying this on the assumption that the hoses attached to the top and bottom of the pump are plumbed to the engine, perhaps to the oil filter fitting. If this is the case, then you don't need to change the pump oil by itself, and there would be no reason to.

The CAV/MINIMEC/SIMMS injection pumps on the FL120 and the older 4-cylnder Ford Lehmans do need to have their lube oil changed every 50 hours because they are lubed independently of the oil in the engine itself and the oil is gradually diluted by fuel leaking down past the jerk injection pistons up above. The photo below is of the pump on one of our FL120s and as you can see there is no oil plumbing attached to the pump. The drain plug for the pump oil is on the bottom of the pump case more or less under the letter "L" in "Level."

But if you have any questions regarding a Ford Lehman engine I suggest you call Brian or Bob Smith at American Diesel. Bob worked for Lehman way back when and was involved in the marinization of a number of their engines. Brian is his son. American Diesel is the best place today for Lehman advice, problem-solving, and parts.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 9th of August 2011 06:23:00 PM

thank you Marin , i was waiting for your answer.

i search other topic and the way i could see, the pump i have is lubricated by the motor.
Yes the hose is a return hose to the motor oil.

thank you.

CJ


-- Edited by septembre on Wednesday 10th of August 2011 07:09:26 AM

In the pic of the red pump, just to the right of the 90 degree fitting with some white on it, there is a two bolt flange. On mine it looks like a solenoid with one wire attached. Does anyone know what this piece is?

The plate on the pump should have the model number. You may be able to find a manual on line. Since your pump runs on engine oil, the oil needs to be kept cleaner than a pump with its own oil. Consider a finer oil filter or a bypass filter.

I have the same style pump on a 6 cylinder 120hp and was wondering where the second line was meant to go, do you change the oil in your injector pump ? mine dosent even have a drain in the bottom of it.
Thanks
M

Has anyone modified a FL 120 injection pump to be lubed by the engine oil?

It seems pretty simple to plumb hoses from to it from the engine to circulate oil.

syjos said:

Has anyone modified a FL 120 injection pump to be lubed by the engine oil?

It seems pretty simple to plumb hoses from to it from the engine to circulate oil.

Click to expand...

Certainly would be nice and sure doen't seem like a huge engineering challenge.

Feed oil into the top via the fill plug and return to sump via the "full overflow" plug on the side?
Seems legit.
You may have to fiddle with the incoming flow to keep the proper level in the pump, if that matters. Don't know if too much oil pressure will blow out seals.

If it were that easy why didn't Ford do this?

Hmmmmm

Does make you wonder why it hasn’t been done before. You would think American diesel would make a kit if it’s possible Because it looks quite simple to do but my guess is the injector pumps are different, otherwise it would of been done, because it’s so hard to change the oil every 50hrs by the looks of it on line, would sure be a great retro fit if it is possible ��
Cheers
MC

jleonard said:

Feed oil into the top via the fill plug and return to sump via the "full overflow" plug on the side?
Seems legit.
You may have to fiddle with the incoming flow to keep the proper level in the pump, if that matters. Don't know if too much oil pressure will blow out seals.

If it were that easy why didn't Ford do this?

Hmmmmm

Click to expand...

I would feed oil via the rear port on the side for checking level and the level would be correct if returned the way you described from forward port? Install a regulator to reduce oil pressure or larger diameter return line.

Or oil in from the bottom and out the side?

Maybe Ford wanted cleaner oil in the injection pump than what the engine could provide. But the 135 pump is lubed from the engine.

Hmmmmm is right.

Mobcat said:

Does make you wonder why it hasn’t been done before. You would think American diesel would make a kit if it’s possible Because it looks quite simple to do but my guess is the injector pumps are different, otherwise it would of been done, because it’s so hard to change the oil every 50hrs by the looks of it on line, would sure be a great retro fit if it is possible ��
Cheers
MC

Click to expand...

I drilled and tapped the drain plug hole on the injection pump to accept a threaded fitting and hose. All I do now is remove the cap on the drain hose, stick the hose into a plastic bottle and drain the oil.

My FL 120 has over 7,000 hours and I change the oil at 100 hour intervals.

If the oil removed has no diesel smell, 100 hours between injection oil change is sufficient.

That’s the way to go I suppose , having a drain line especially when you are meant to do it every fifty hours that’s like every other month for me .

I have know idea what motor and transmission mine is maybe a 135hp I’m starting to think , I will post some plates I’ve taken photos of and some photos maybe someone may be able to shed some light on its origin or age, would sure be handy when trying to reference things for the motor and gearbox

syjos said:

Maybe Ford wanted cleaner oil in the injection pump than what the engine could provide. But the 135 pump is lubed from the engine.

Hmmmmm is right.

Click to expand...

I thought about the oil cleanliness also. But then again dark looking oil doesn't mean it wont lubricate.

Hmmmmmm indeed.

According to Bob Smith in the seminar that I took was that the oil in the 120 injection pump would get diluted by diesel. They recommend changing it every 50 hours until you learned what your engine needed. He said that you could extend the hours if there was no diesel dilution based on the individual engine. One guy in the class had twin 120s and said that one of his needed the change at 50 hours and the other one could go 100 hours. Bob said that was fine. One guy in the class asked what Bob was talking about as he had never changed the oil in his 120...

Someone here posted they thought they had run their engine for quite awhile with no oil in the pump at all.... they found the drain plug out.



Not sure why they though it was quite awhile...but cant remember why they thought so.


Supposedly the pump was still working after many hours since finding the drain plug out.

I have an acquaintance who ran his FL120 for 14 years before he found out about the need to change the oil in the injection pump. That was a number of years ago. That pump still lives to this day. He has no idea how many hours that was but this is a guy who uses his boat. Even if just 100 hours per year, that pump oil had at least 1,400 hours on it. He did say that the oil was very fuel diluted. Makes me wonder about the 50-hour change recommendation. I wonder if there ever ever was an empirical test done? Hey, how about this? We know that these engines have been used for continuous duty in agricultural and industrial environments sometimes in remote locations. Do we really think the oil was changed out every 50 hours? Just wondering, no facts.

psneeld said:

Someone here posted they thought they had run their engine for quite awhile with no oil in the pump at all.... they found the drain plug out.



Not sure why they though it was quite awhile...but cant remember why they thought so.


Supposedly the pump was still working after many hours since finding the drain plug out.

Click to expand...

Ok, so who is going to step up and drain their injector pump and run it without oil so we can find out if that is really possible or not? I would be willing to do it except that I have SP225s that are lubed with engine oil or else I would sacrifice mine...

Not I. But my musings were not of running the pump without oil, just not changing it. Wouldn't do that either. But, I still wonder about remotely used engines being run a long time without an oil change. Again, I have no facts, just an inquisitive nature.

Comodave said:

Ok, so who is going to step up and drain their injector pump and run it without oil so we can find out if that is really possible or not? I would be willing to do it except that I have SP225s that are lubed with engine oil or else I would sacrifice mine...

Click to expand...

A bypass hose and a couple plugs...easy peezy.

With twins, even a control engine as well.

Mobcat said:

I have know idea what motor and transmission mine is maybe a 135hp I’m starting to think , I will post some plates I’ve taken photos of and some photos maybe someone may be able to shed some light on its origin or age, would sure be handy when trying to reference things for the motor and gearbox

Click to expand...

The green tag in your picture clearly shows 2725E in the upper left corner. That means it’s a 135, a “Dover” engine. Not a 120.

Ken

A fellow at our marina never drained his pump in 10 years and he had an engine runaway. When he investigated he found no engine damage (although he saw 3500 r/m before it quit) and changed his pump oil. So far so good.

Anecdotal, scary as hell. Has anyone considered an air cut-off device in case of runaways? I have a bucket that fits over the intake perfectly, but not a Lehman.

Xsbank said:

A fellow at our marina never drained his pump in 10 years and he had an engine runaway. When he investigated he found no engine damage (although he saw 3500 r/m before it quit) and changed his pump oil. So far so good.

Anecdotal, scary as hell. Has anyone considered an air cut-off device in case of runaways? I have a bucket that fits over the intake perfectly, but not a Lehman.

Click to expand...

Did you ever hear how the actual runaway occurred? What broke or came loose in the pump?


Or was this not on a standard Lehman 120 pump and it DID use engine circulating oil that finally dumped enough fuel into the crankcase?

Thanks Ken I just gained 15hp and didn’t have to do a thing living the dream
Happy days
Mobcat

If the oil gets contaminated by fuel then that’s a reason to not use the engines oil system

I think any diesel fuel that were to go back to the engine crankcase would pretty rapidly evaporate out. Plus, I don't think we would be talking a large quantity of fuel in a short time . . . . Heh, I'd volunteer to try it, but we're still looking for a boat to buy! . . . and it might not even have FL120's!

Well, I wish it weren"t me but my newly rebuilt fuel injection pumps ran flawlessly for 50 hours, then I discovered they didn't have a drop of oil. Advised by Brian Smith to have an oil analysis on the oil that I put in after I 've 50 hours on it. Getting close, my friend suggested pouring the oil into a glass to look at it for metal. What I have noticed is that there is a sign of fuel on the water that wasn't present before so maybe one of my freshly rebuilt pumps is not working so well.