Canadian Poll on opening boarder

Let's look at this from a different standpoint. Such as, what existing native owned resort/marina between Vancouver and Prince Rupert matches up to Echo Bay of yore?

BTW, I can think of several nice native owned resorts in NA, just not in this BC stretch. Port Harvey was not well supported by the band when George (RIP) was alive and really bothered him.

Not sure any of this really matters though, for many of us the allure of the Broughtons is not fixed base marinas. With Blind Channel. Sullivan Bay, Port McNeil and Port Hardy well in place, the success or failure of Echo Bay going forward may prove but a footnote.

From the Waggoner article:

The new owners look forward to maintaining relationships and communication with past clientele of Echo Bay, and existing businesses and industry. Over the coming years, KHFN will work diligently to expand current service offerings and integrate Kwiḵwa̱sut’inux̱w Haxwa’mis culture to create a unique and positive experience for all.

Sounds pretty good to me.

They will undoubtedly have access to funding that most marina owners wouldn't have for maintenance and improvements. If there is any contention it would be this:

The purchase was made possible, in part, by a Strategic Forest Initiatives agreement and funding from the British Columbia Provincial government to fund a forestry business. The marina at Echo Bay was deemed suitable for this funding as it serves as lodging for forestry field crews.

Pretty much the whole marina and shopping center in Campbell River is First Nations as well. I think that has been a success story.

As a boater, I am happy that these places can remain viable.

Most of the First Nations hire qualified people to manage their businesses, as it only makes sense. If you or someone else is interested in running Echo Bay, here is the job application:

https://khfn.ca/job-opportunities/

If I were only at a different stage of my life...

sunchaser said:

Let's look at this from a different standpoint. Such as, what existing native owned resort/marina between Vancouver and Prince Rupert matches up to Echo Bay of yore?

BTW, I can think of several nice native owned resorts in NA, just not in this BC stretch. Port Harvey was not well supported by the band when George (RIP) was alive and really bothered him.

Not sure any of this really matters though, for many of us the allure of the Broughtons is not fixed base marinas. With Blind Channel. Sullivan Bay, Port McNeil and Port Hardy well in place, the success or failure of Echo Bay going forward may prove but a footnote.

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Owning a marina in these semi remote area is not a business venture that has a high rate of success. Greenway sound, Kwatsi Bay and Belle Isle all come to mind. All the seemingly successful ventures have more then just docks Shaw, Sullivan and hopefully Echo Bay all come to mind. We (my family) have been going up there since Bob and Nancy bought it, my kids caught their first salmon there. I still have friends that bought property and built cabins there. I hope the first nations acquiring Echo Bay will provide stability and longevity to a place that has spawned many great memories and stories.

Where is the greater risk to BC, a plane of Canadian citizens from Quebec or an Ocean Alexander from Seattle? Or the Canadian citizen returning through the Detroit crossing to Ontario and then flying Toronto to Vancouver?

My own personal philosophy is never ask a question you don't want the answer too. Just read an article, either Canadian or British, discussing why Americans were having more trouble settling into a pandemic routine. And one of the characteristics discussed was the libertarian mentality (not the political party) of many in the States. You know the type well - "No government is going to tell me what to do!" In both Canada and Britain, this kind of thinking is rarer, not non-existent just not as popular.

Or to put it in a more pedantic way, Ayn Rand's concept of "selfishness" is a positive attribute. Don't get me wrong, I went cruising with two friends I had cruised with many times in the past. We were in my friends 34 foot sailboat in one of the bays of Gambier Island - Halkett Bay (BC). What I didn't know, it was to be a recruiting session to their way of thinking, the libertarian way. So I was told if a person didn't want a road in front of their place, they didn't have to pay for it, which meant no road in front of their place. So I asked how was the ambulance and fire department to get through, and who was going to pay for that. If you know libertarian thinking, it can get pretty absurd real fast.

So the long answer to your short question is easy. If the owner/family of the OA is of a libertarian mind set, the OA is a clear and present danger.

From my perspective, this is a positive result, especially compared to the sale a few years ago of Shawl Bay. The new owner closed (at least to the public) the marina permanently. Not sure about what is happening at Port Harvey now that it sold and had recent "sinking issues", Kwatsi is still for sale, and I have heard that some of the other marinas have not been doing well (and this is before Covid). Hopefully Echo Bay will thrive!

firehoser75 said:

Hopefully Echo Bay will thrive!

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It will become a year round facility. Not necessrily a yachting centre in winter but Interfor has such a huge supply of wood to yet throw in the water, there will be Echo Bay will not slow down.
The link provided by Northern Spy, speaks volumes.
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Funny we've not heard from "a lot of BCrs and Canadians who do not agree."

Pierre, up until a few years ago, lived at Scott Cove and Echo Bay year around. He had loggers, engineers, surveyors etc stay in the two apartments during fall to spring. Pierre fed the guest their meals. He also had work crews come to the lodge for meals.

I don't know if Pierre continued year around at Echo Bay after Tove retired. He told me a long time ago that he was not looking forward to Tove retirement after years of being by himself 9 months out of a year.

I retired long before my wife and my life changed dramatically after she retired.

soin2la said:

It will become a year round facility. Not necessrily a yachting centre in winter but Interfor has such a huge supply of wood to yet throw in the water, there will be Echo Bay will not slow down.
The link provided by Northern Spy, speaks volumes.
=========
Funny we've not heard from "a lot of BCrs and Canadians who do not agree."

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It has been a year around facility for years, before pierre, before bob and nancy there was an active school at the head of the bay. The school served Scott cove and surrounding areas. Echo Bay had a year round post office and store.When we first started going there there was a fourplex and a hotel with a bar. Scott cove was an active logging camp.

Ka_sea_ta said:

It has been a year around facility for years.

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Well of course it has, but concern has been expressed for years on here, whether Echo Bay and others would last another season.

The FN forestry agreement and access to funds, will make it much busier and viable.

ASD forgets that that he is descended from immigrants who took First Nations land by force, starvation and disease.
By the time WASP's(white Anglo Saxon Protestants) came to BC, the First Nations knew that white mans paper and promises were bad news. Most First Nations refused to sign treaties. Well the white man has his laws, courts, police and racism to occupy the best land.
Europeans (us) believe that we live in a democracies as long as the system benefits WASP's.
First Nations people of the New World felt the full weight our so called democracy.
Our European ancestors and governments tried to exterminate the First Nations people in the new world, by murder, starvation, infected blankets, culturally, banning Pot-latch's, instituting residential schools and worse.
Thankfully they did not succeed.
Its ironic when First Nations use our institutions against us and win, somehow that sets our hair on fire.
The Supreme Court of Canada made history in 1997 with Delgamuukw decision. This just a start, by no means are First Nations claims anywhere near settled law.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/delgamuukw-case

Maybe we need to be more kind and understanding towards ASD. I get the sense, he is just a little misguided, like a guy who has a four hour layover at JFK and is an instant NY expert.

And those “signs all over BC” really are a challenge, like this one in his blog;
“The entrance is narrow and there is a pilling with a black square! OK what does that mean? Danger? Inside a harbor?”

soin2la said:

Maybe we need to be more kind and understanding towards ASD...

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I think we have been...nobody has flown off the handle at him, giving him ample room to explain his position.

Nowadays, more than ever, people can enclose themselves in media and 'news' echo chambers where they only get fed information supporting certain views, interact with people who do the same, and where posting a one-liner is understood by everybody.

ASD has shared stories (particularly anchoring with sailboaters who complain about his generator and/or boat fumes) that tells me he is rather inflexible by nature. Something also tells me he is averse to considering alternate views in order to understand where someone with opposing views might be coming from.

So to get away from bashing ASD (hi Tom) and speculating on Echo Bay (don’t go there anyway), I can offer some one sided observations from further north. SE Alaska will be pretty well devastated financially by Canada closing the border. All of the large cruise ships need to stop in Canada to be able to legal cruise Alaska, and with the border closed, all those sailing are cancelled for the summer. That is a large percentage of income for many of the communities here. Knowing this, and speculating that many of the communities here will be severely challenged this summer, I still totally support the decision to keep the border closed.
Most of the residents in SE have spent the past months reading the news from the rest of the country, and the world, of this pandemic, with little or no first hand experience. Recently we left town for an extended weekend crabbing trip, when we left there was one actual positive Covid test in town and when we returned there were eleven. This coincides with easing of travel restrictions into the state. I sit here in the marina and daily I see new faces, either commercial fisherman or charter fisherman, not wearing masks and visits to local stores right after arrival with no quarantine or isolation. I applaud anyone, community or country, that can find effective ways to mitigate spread and then hold those in place.

Ventana said:

SE Alaska will be pretty well devastated financially by Canada closing the border.

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Canada did not close the border, it was a joint collaborative deision made by both US and Canada and extended twice.

Some of those new faces, would be US citizens, who have succeeded in convincing the Canadian CBSA, they had legitimate reason to travel to AK, through Canada.

Many of whom abused the courtesay granted to them and are now likely wandering AK with no concern for others.

No one is bashing ASD, just pointing out the obvious, from a door that was flung wide open, both recently and months ago.

I'm pretty sure there are no cruise ships calling anywhere in the USA:

Cruise Lines International Association, the leading trade organization for the global ocean-going cruise industry, says its member cruise lineshave voluntarily extended the suspension of U.S. cruise operations until Sept. 15 amid coronavirus concerns.

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention's current "no-sail order" is scheduled to expire on July 24, but no extension has yet been announced

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...until-sept-15-industry-group-clia/3222379001/

soin2la said:

Canada did not close the border, it was a joint collaborative deision made by both US and Canada and extended twice.

Some of those new faces, would be US citizens, who have succeeded in convincing the Canadian CBSA, they had legitimate reason to travel to AK, through Canada.

Many of whom abused the courtesay granted to them and are now likely wandering AK with no concern for others.

No one is bashing ASD, just pointing out the obvious, from a door that was flung wide open, both recently and months ago.

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I used that phrase because this thread is about Canada closing it’s border to incoming visitors. As of now it is closed in both directions, but most of the Canadians I know aren’t whining about not being able to get out of Canada.

I’m also not blaming Canada for the decreased tourism here. Now that I am finally out of the tourism industry I am glad the ships will not be here this summer, although I also understand how much this will affect my community.

And FWIW, some are bashing him, politely or otherwise. It may not be you, and it may or may not be deserved, but that doesn’t make it not true.

Not bashing anyone here and trying for an informed discussion.

Having said that, ASD’s “ kool aid “ post was over the top and blanket bashed multiple posters in one fell swoop.

Uncalled for and actually quite rude....

Just saying.

ASD,
I apologize. There was no need to to identify you in my previous post.
My issue is your impression that Canadians are not in favor of First Nations aspirations.
On the contrary most are in favor. The argument is around compensation paid for past injustice and how we chart the path forward.
Most First Nations agree that private property of WASP's is not on the table without fair compensation.
None of us like change, me included.

Greetings,
Mr. r. VERY well said! Thank you.

roddy said:

ASD,
I apologize. There was no need to to identify you in my previous post.
My issue is your impression that Canadians are not in favor of First Nations aspirations.
On the contrary most are in favor. The argument is around compensation paid for past injustice and how we chart the path forward.
Most First Nations agree that private property of WASP's is not on the table without fair compensation.
None of us like change, me included.

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Funny you should mention Delgamuukw.

This might seem like a lifetime ago, but do you remember about 5 months ago when First Nations blockaded railways across Canada? They went on so long it resulted in a significant slowdown of the Canadian economy and ports were shut down.

The blockades started because the RCMP raided a camp protecting a mountain pass in Unist'ot'en territory. The Unist'ot'en Traditional Chiefs were protecting their land from a pipeline project they never agreed to.

They are a House, or Clan (think I got that right) of one of the First Nations who won the Delgamuukw case in the Supreme Court of Canada.

I was surprised how understanding Canadians were to being inconvenienced, particularly commuters in Toronto and Montreal. While there were those who complained, the feeling I got was that the majority of Canadians understood the blockades were more than just for the Unist'ot'en, but for all First Nations and all they have suffered in the last 400 years or so.

Should add...the Unist'ot'en proposed a different route through their territory, one that wouldn't go through the mountain area they are trying to protect.

The cities of Smithers, Telkwa, and Houston have been built on their unceeded territory, along with farms, massive logging and mining operations...with no compensation or taxation going their way. This one valley system is a small percentage of their traditional territory which remains close to pristine.

It's just over the mountains from where I live.

So the border will be closed to the end of July. Do you think the closure will be extended again? I wonder how crowded Prideaux Haven will be this year with no yanks?

Fortunately the new Echo Bay will be quite easy to assess in a year or two. Of course this before and after comparison assumes one spent time there when Pierre and Tove were running the place.

The first bit of news will be the website and Facebook postings detailing events, happenings and wildlife photos. Then the Echo Bay Events (a fun group of parties and great food) meeting schedule. Fingers crossed the transition will be positive.

Now back to opening the border (boarder?). I say August which will allow Quebecers and Washingtonians two more months to get their respective houses in order.