Help! I'm new at this.

Hello members of trawlers forum. My wife and I are long time sailors but alas, we are getting older. My recent lightning strike drove me up the mast for the last time to fix the wind instruments. We have considered moving to a trawler for a long time and I finally listed my 48 foot catamaran. As I look on Yachtworld I am overwhelmed by my choices because frankly I don't know where to begin my search. Here is what I THINK I am looking for so feel free to give me your advice:

1) A well made boat with a good bluewater pedigree
2) A boat that two experienced 60 year old people can enjoy
3) A flying bridge
4) three state rooms (big family)
5) It doesn't need to go over 8-10 knots
6) Small twins or a single engine with a "wing" motor for fuel economy
7) 45-50 feet

My traveling has been and will continue to be the Caribbean and the Florida coast. Thanks for your input in helping me find my next boat. I also am looking for a reputable broker. All the ones I know sell sailboats.

You don't mention a budget so it's pretty hard to offer any meaningful suggestions.

But in terns of production boats I'm very to somewhat familiar with-----

If blue water cruising is your thing you can't beat a Nordhavn for capabilities. Their interiors tend to be kind of cut up with relatively small spaces but that makes sense since you don't want to be thrown across a big living room if the swells and seas kick up. Very expensive, though. Single engine, some with wing engines. Proven track record of open ocean passages.

Flemings are outstanding pilothouse boats but might be a bit larger than you want. Also very expensive. Twin engine (big ones) and semi-planing hull.

Krogens are excellent displacement boats and there are models right in your size range. Single engine.

Grand Banks are excellent, high quality boats but are really not well suited for open ocean work unless it's a nice day. Big windows, wet ride, semi-planing hull make for a less desireable configuration if the weather at sea turns nasty. Singles and twins.

Most of the boats owned by participants in this forum tend to be coastal cruisers. There are a few exceptions--- Keith in Texas with his Krogen, a few people in the PNW and Alaksa with commercial fishboat conversions, Carey with his custom lobsterboat. (Carey's boat doesn't have the range to be an ocean cruiser but it definitely has the capabilities.)

So lots and lots of choices.

I think it's smarter to concentrate first on what you want the boat to do for you in terms of accomodations, range, speed, what kind of water you're going to be cruising in, what kind of galley you want (electric, propane), how many heads, what kind of heads (fresh water, salt water, vacuum), full walk around deck or wider interior spaces, generator yes no? guests? kids? grandkids? pets? heat, air conditioning, ease of access, and on and on and on before you get all wrapped around the axle chasing brand names.

Once you've defined as accurately as possible what you want the boat to do for you then you can start finding out what makes and models of boats will do it. But starting out trying to figure out what brand and model of boat you should get is the way to indecision hell and a potentially bad choice

And once you have defined your boat and then found a few makes and models that fit your definiiton you might want to charter one or more of them for a week or so to find out if a) the boat works for you like you think it will, and b) if you even like the whole powerboat cruising thing.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard and to the dark side Mr. retiringsailor and spouse. Mr. Marins' last three paragraphs should be pinned as a permanent answer as to which boat is best for anyone asking.
As stated, it's not so much the boat, it's what YOU want it to do/be for you. I have several friends who spent multiple YEARS finding "THE" boat with good success and many enjoyable hours just mucking about, tire kicking and looking. GREAT excuse for a couples' multiple weekend get-a-ways and adventures.
As to an honest, hard working broker, there is one I am personally familiar with who is a member on this board. PM me if interested.

"A well made boat with a good bluewater pedigree."

For what reason?

Do you plan ON CROSSING OCEANS , or just putting out the inlet for a few hours?

The difference is about 300% in the price of the boat .

A good "blue water" boat will have heavier scantliings and far less useable room aboard.
Big tanks , fuel and water , take up space.
Smaller 3/4 inch thick windows , rather than a huge expanse of 3/8 car glass.

It may (should)be harder to move about in with some form of compartmented subdivision,eg, Water tight doors.

Sure 20 ft sail boats have circled the world with ease.
BUT the usual "trawler" is an inshore , poke its nose outside , with great caution style cruiser. Volume is usually the sales point.

No sailboat worth untieing from the dock can not make a simple Carrib run for the winter.
The power boats prefer to run along shore by Hispanolia , rather than east coast departure , Bermuda. Antigua.

Offshore "blue water" boats (Passagemakers ) do exist , but they have a large price, so are about 1 in 200 found in the used market.

FF

Since you've had Cat experience

Since you've had cat experience why not look at trawler cats. Coming off a 45 cat you're going to have trouble finding three state rooms and the privacy you're used to in a 45' monohull. The trawler cats are as a rule, just like sailing cats, are more expensive to build and offer less available moorage. But you're used to that. They usually offer faster cruising speeds and are more fuel efficient. I've spent a little time on a seventy foot Steel cat and they are very impressive in rough seas. Just like your sailing cat they don't carry the weight a monohull will carry but you may not need it. There are several trawlers that will cross oceans besides Nordhavn. I think 48' to 60' is pretty manageable by a 60 year old couple with boat handling skills. One of the older boats that has ocean crossing ability and three state rooms is a Hatteras 58 LRC. There are a number of these old yachts available and they offer three state rooms, fiberglass huge tankage, very comfortable accommodations and heavy duty scant-lings. The down side is they are 30 plus years old. Many of these boats have been maintained and upgraded through the years and are incredible. Hatteras considered the 58LRC as exactly what you are looking for. A yacht for a experienced cruising couple capable of cruising to remote distant places. I started the same process looking for a boat 6 years ago for a cruising couple interested in crossing oceans, the hunt was a lot of fun and very educational. I also have years of sailing experience, a lot of it on racing catamarans, I got into large power boats for the same reason as it sounds like you are. I live on the west coast and our ocean is cold, believe me stranding watch in the warmth of a pilot house at night is infinitely more comfortable shivering in three layers of fleece and foulies. These trawlers range from fairly simple like a sailboat to very complicated machines. Enjoy your search and take your time, it's a wonderful learning experience.

I would look at the Hatteras 58LRC not withstanding their age. Think of boat age vice calender age. My first boat 6 years ago was a 1968 Chris Craft Commander. Great boat. How well they have been maintained, any upgrades, and any refurbishing are the key to the older boats that have a good foundation to start with but the big item would be the engines, age and brand name. With the Hat you get the best of two worlds. Room and blue water capability.

Lots of good advice...several other considerations are whether you want covered moorage (the air draft on some of these gets up there, particularly with a hardtop), how much maintenance you are willing to put up with (large vintage Hatterases often have 32v pumps and motors, which are getting very scarce and expensive), how much exterior wood you can live without <grin>, and of course budget (a range would be helpful).

The good news (and you may already know this) is you are in the best location in the country to buy a boat - Florida is where "boats go to die" and you can get more for your money there than any place else (this works both ways when you sell though).

I'm not a tropical boater, but I would think that cooling requirements (air conditioning and the power to run it) would be a high priority.

Also, if it's not obvious, you have several criteria that are difficult to reconcile: 3 stateroom boats are generally over 50' and are used by people who have time restrictions, so they tend to be higher powered so everyone can get to / from the cruising grounds quickly. If one of your guests is a singleton, most pilothouse boats will accomodate a pilot berth that might work (we have a double bunk in our pilothouse and generally prefer to sleep there instead of the stateroom).

Consider looking in Michigan which has the greatest number of boat registrations of any state plus there are many for sale. You get a fresh water boat and a chance to have an adventure bringing it home.

Thank you for all of your suggestions. That was exactly what I was hoping I would get from the members. Many of you posed questions and if anyone would like to reply further I would appreciate it. I would like to keep the price below about $750K and with what I have seen on the net it should buy me a newer rather than a older model boat. As far as where I typically cruise, I will not circumnavigate, but my cruising grounds have been and will be from the eastern coast, Bahamas, West Indies, DR, PR and I love Panama. I just brought my sailing cat from Exuma to Annapolis where I have her listed with a broker. I have never crossed the ditch but would like to someday. The prospect of having a boat that can use the ICW also appeals to me because my 70 foot masts have always kept me from using it except for the areas south of Miami. I have considered looking at a power catamaran but my experience to date is that they seldom have a large enough open space for a nice comfortable easy chair for my wife's bad neck. I have heard about quality boats like Fleming and Nordhavn for awhile but have never been on one. I would like to know about quality boats that have good "bang for the buck," but no price boats. Can I ask "what should I avoid?"

retiring sailor said:

Can I ask "what should I avoid?"

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Sure. For $750k you can avoid just about everything that isn't a Nordhavn.

Based only on theory, reading, and talking to people, NOT direct experience, I would avoid anything with a semi-planing hull. (Some people call them semi-displacement but they're wrong )

I would avoid anything with big windows.

I would avoid anything with big engines and small fuel tanks.

I would avoid anything with small water tanks.

I would avoid anything with a high-ish center of gravity.

I would avoid anything that doesn't have stabilizers, passive or active.

I would avoid anything that doesn't have really good access to the engine(s).

I might even avoid anything that doesn't have watertight compartments down in the hull but I'm not sure how practical or even possible that might be.

And I would avoid anything that cost less than $750k. After all, you get what you pay for, right

A piece of advice I always thought was really good that I first read in a story in Boy's Life Magazine way back in the 1960s is: "Buy the smallest boat you can afford." By which is meant that the smaller a boat you buy that will do everything you need it to do the newer or in better shape that boat will be. It does NOT mean to buy a boat that's too small for what you need it to do. It means that if to do what you want to do you need a 46 foot boat, don't buy a 56 foot boat just because one comes along that you can afford. Because for the same amount of money, you'll generally find a much nicer or newer or both 46 foot boat than you will a 56 foot boat.

While you're considering newer models, I'll put a biased plug in for the Hatteras 58' LRC as mentioned above. They can be had for considerably less money and are awesome boats. Our '79 model was well maintained and upgraded over the years. To the extent that she shows like a much newer vessel.

Range, sea keeping ability and creature comforts are exceptional. The original owner of ours circumnavigated her back in the early 80's.

With regards to the 32V issue, it hasn't been a problem for us in the past 3 years. Batteries are 8V (x4) and with several banks, offer terrific anchorage capacity. Pumps, motors, etc. can still be purchased and/or easily rebuilt. The only issue, if one could call it that, is sourcing some light bulbs. They are becoming harder to find, but we stock up when I find them.

While we don't do any blue water cruising yet, it's in the works. In the meantime, we have a wonderful platform to cruise and entertain. You won't be disappointed.

When going thru our purchase process,we also considered the Alaskan and Defever '49 RPH. The Fleming and Norhavn were also on the list, but scratched because of budget limitations. Also keep in mind that the Fleming and Norhavn are entirely different hull designs. The Fleming is a semi-planing with large engines, while Norhavn's are full displacements and normally have a single engine.

A lot of good advice listed above. Good luck with your search!

thehonkeykat (at) msn.com

REPLACE THE (AT) WITH A @

This fellow has a newish Nordhaven that has been well outfitted and run to the Pacific .

Located in Ortona Fl , at my dock, no I'm not a broker , just a cruiser.

In your price range , ready to go back into the blue water.

Good hunting,

FF

With your traveling agenda I would go with twin engines for sure. Nice to be able to keep going, even if on just one engine. Also big aid in moving the boat in tight quarters. For me that would eliminate all single engine boats.

Now you've done it. Single vs. twin debate again. I'm biased, but I'd suggest looking at the various Krogen models. You should find one that meets all of your requirements in your price range easily. (I prefer single engine).

With your plan, and your budget, you do sound like one of the few people I'd recommend a Nordhavn to, like Marin said. Most folk would never justify one. I have been over them at shows and drooled, but will never be able to afford one, and could not justify one even if I could....but for you...yes. You could not do better than say a Nordy 47 thru 52, to the 55/60, and for that budget that would get you one reasonably recent build, used...but just nicely sorted and fitted out....
Nordhavn 47

Nordhavn 55

Nordhavn 52

@ Refugio ""Florida is where "boats go to die"" I thought Florida is where we ALL go to die.. ;-)

With that budget there are indeed many options, and I'm assuming there's a commensurate budget for maintenance and operation.

I'll echo the recommendations for the Hatteras 58LRC - while it's in the wrong corner of the country, the first one on this page was recently put up for sale: Welcome to the Hatteras Long Range Cruiser Club

I've been on this boat - the small yard that maintains the cosmetics on my boat has maintained this boat for years, and the long-time previous (co) owner is the brother of a good friend.

I understand the 8-10 knots coming from a sailboat, but there are advantages to being able to go faster to outrun weather in the large open water passages. Plus a semi-planing boat would draw less water than a full displacement boat. You might want to look at chartering a boat with your criteria and see if you find times that you want more speed or less draft.

Take a look at this.

2000 Kadey Krogen Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

It's slightly more than your budget but seems like a bang for the buck to me. I think the Krogen 58 is one of the best looking boats. They come in both single and twin engine configurations. This one has a single but has a get home set-up that is powered by the genny.

I've also been looking at some long-range blue-water capable boats with the identical criteria you mentioned. I tend to study things for years before a decision, but one deal nearly threw me over the edge last week. I stopped at the Krogen shop over in Stuart, FL to ask for advice on local fabricators, and they took me next door to see this one. I've been aching ever since. I expected to see a boat needing work, but she was super clean. It's probably good that I didn't have the cash, but the number was right, and it even had the wing engine I was looking for. Please buy this thing and put me out of my misery.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=50369&url=

I would echo those suggesting a Krogen. As a Krogen owner, they are excellent boats, extremely well-built, great support from Krogen, you can go anywhere from the ICW (since you havn't been able to do that, you will really enjoy it!) to crossing to the Med if you wish. Very liveable boats. As noted, there are some good offerings on the market now.

Retiring Sailor: Forgot to mention, if you happened to ever get to Stuart to visit Krogen, their blue-water competition Nordhavn is right next door! I mean, is that a hoot or what?! Of all the possible locations, they end up being 50 ft. from each other! All good advice above, by the way.

Excellent. I have been away for a few days taking delivery of my cat. I appreciate all that you have said. I have also continued to look diligently on yachtworld. Two questions that have arisen as a result of my search. What about Selene Yachts? And DeFever?

retiring sailor said:

Excellent. I have been away for a few days taking delivery of my cat. I appreciate all that you have said. I have also continued to look diligently on yachtworld. Two questions that have arisen as a result of my search. What about Selene Yachts? And DeFever?

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I've got a "thing" for the DeFever 49 raised pilothouse. If I really needed a bigger boat, I'd be looking for one. I was aboard a Selene 48 (I believe) at Trawler Fest, and that has very much the same appeal. The layout was beautiful. The cabinetry was finished front and back, even inside. Nice engine room too.

One boat I didn't mention to you with regard to your price range was the Leopard Powercat 47, or perhaps even the new 38. Both offer three staterooms, multiple head arrangements, and come from South Africa on their own bottoms, mostly via Tortola. There's no way you can deny the open space of the 47 with big, efficient hulls. The 38 is nothing like the previous 37, and it would be my own choice of cats right now. Efficiency is approaching that of the frugal PDQ designs, but much more space. You can charter them out of Moorings in Tortola. The fact that each of these boats come across on their own bottoms is a very powerful sales point.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp??access=Public¤cy=USD&listing_id=50369&units=Feet&boat_id=2458126&back=boatDetail.jsp&boat_id=2458126
Wow, lovely vessel....wants it...wants it now....
Interesting stern thruster set-up though. Wouldn't that add quite a bit of drag?

I took the admiral out while in Annapolis last week. She said "maybe we don't want another boat." She changed her mind after we looked at the first Krogen. Although we saw several boats, we were most impressed with the build and quality of the Selene. Our second favorite was the Krogen but I did not get to see the Nordavn. I have to admit that one of those three is now on my short list. Just have to sell the sailboat.......

Thanks for all the advice!

Another dumb question. How much prop walk do you have with the big singles? It was an issue when I was sailing monohulls but you don't get much with cats.

On my Monk 36 with a 220 Cummins if find the propwalk quite strong. It does come in useful in docking, pulling the stern into the dock when side tying.
Steve W

retiring sailor said:

How much prop walk do you have with the big singles?

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It's certainly something to be aware of - it makes it harder to kick the stern the other way (and the bow the opposite). On a previous trawler (a small steel Romsdal with a CPP), it was something I could really use to advantage - rocking the pitch lever between slight forward and slight reverse it was possible to spin the boat in little more than its length.

Over time it's something I have adjusted to. I've had single IBs for more than 30 years, and when I recently had a C-Dory with twin OBs I never could get used to the twin engines - I was continually over-thinking the process! I went to just using one OB (leaving the other in neutral) and was more successful (except when I did the easy maneuver of centering them and going in opposite directions to slowly spin the boat).