MTU Series 60 14L/825-hp vs. Volvo D-12/715-hp?

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ranger58sb

ranger58sb

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I realize these aren't the usual "trawler" engines, but... anybody here have any pros/cons.etc. on these two?

Would be twins in a ~50K-lb sportfish... circa 2005-2007-ish...

-Chris
 
No experience with the Volvo, but the Detroit (now MTU) Series 60 has a good reputation and I have met several happy owners. You have to be careful as to how juiced up they are (825 sound high offhand, but they'll know the numbers on BoatDiesel) and, especially something like a sportfish, how they were run is a huge factor. Log books available?
 
caltexflanc said:
Log books available?
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I think so, but haven't gotten very deep into any discussions about the boats with MTUs yet.

I've found it helps to be able to check Volvo engine serial numbers with one of our local dealers, since they can look up at least any of the "official" logged service calls. That won't include owner or non-Volvo-dealer maintenance, but seems to be a start.

And I'm assuming there's a way to do that with MTUs too...

-Chris
 
caltexflanc said:
No experience with the Volvo, but the Detroit (now MTU) Series 60 has a good reputation and I have met several happy owners.
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I agree! One of my friends has an OA 64 that has a pair of 825 MTUs and it runs great! He's had this particular boat for about 6 years.
 

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I have a 500hp 12.7l Series 60 in our RV with 190,000 miles. Great reputation (1 million miles) in over the road service. The 14l would be rated around 550hp over the road. 825hp is a typical pleasure craft only rating driven by marketing. I'd stay under 500hp at cruise (1950 rpm) and you'll be fine assuming you can hit WOT rpms (2350).
 
Chris, Another engine in this general class is the Cat 3406, I think rated around 500 hp. I have a friend with these who really likes them. They are usually in motoryachts rather than sportfish boats, though.
 
One of the boat models we're considering is normally powered with Volvo D-12/715s. A very few were powered with the MTU S60 14L/825s. One (and perhaps only one) was powered with 700-hp Cats, perhaps the 3406 but I didn't see a specific engine citation.

The boat model -- features, layout, etc. and, of course, cost -- is what would be primarily driving our decision if we go that route, so it's not like we'd have a huge choice of power options.

Can't say as we 'd really ever need/want/use 825-hp, but I was struck by a line in a Series 60 blurb that said something like "unrestricted low load operations" and that at least sounds favorable to the way we typically run.

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Can't say as we 'd really ever need/want/use 825-hp, but I was struck by a line in a Series 60 blurb that said something like "unrestricted low load operations" and that at least sounds favorable to the way we typically run.
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In the FWIW department, my friend cruises his OA 64 at 10 knots and when needed, 21 knots.
 
I've been around a bunch of series 60 marine engines. All seemed to be good machines. Owners like them. Very good base engine. Some marine add-ons can be quibbled with, but no big complaints.

I like to poo-poo Volvos almost daily, but once you get to the size of a D12, that is getting close to their commercial machines, and they tend to be ok.

I'd still prefer the S60 for a bunch of reasons, but that Volvo is not a horrible engine either.
 
Codger2 said:
I agree! One of my friends has an OA 64 that has a pair of 825 MTUs and it runs great! He's had this particular boat for about 6 years.
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Walt
That boat with MTUs is a really good combination. Ideal IMHO. As mentioned by Ken E the lower HP 3406 is another competitor. After these two lots of coin flipping when looking for 400 to 800 HP in an over the road or marine application. Both are still in production.
 
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I have had a variety of DD and when needing a part - even for a 60+ year old engines the WORST iI have had to wait is one da,,,inline 6-71, 8V 71, and series 50, ( series 60 with 2 missing cylinders)
 
Ken E. said:
Chris, Another engine in this general class is the Cat 3406, I think rated around 500 hp. I have a friend with these who really likes them. They are usually in motoryachts rather than sportfish boats, though.
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The 3406 Cats are usually rated at 800hp in the pleasure boat application. They are one of the best marine engines out there in the horsepower range. And they do power Sportfishes as well. I have two friends that have them in Sportfish. One is a Cabo 45 and the other an aluminum one off 60. Excellent engines!!
 
MTU is a reliable engine. I'd pick a steam engine before Volvo.
 
caltexflanc said:
Series 60 is apparently still around. Looks like 825hp is max they make it so, how how it has been run will be critical. Obviously a full survey will be helpful.
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Ref survey, yep, indeed. Near as I can tell, they're not being made anymore, though.


Lepke said:
MTU is a reliable engine. I'd pick a steam engine before Volvo.
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:)

-Chris
 
One more thumbs up for the Series 60's which power OLOH (825 hp). LOVE these engines for 10 kt cruising, where we spend most of our time, but we run them up with regularity and enjoy them at all speeds in their range. Could have this wrong but we had heard that MTU purchased Detroit primarily for the Series 60.
 
Can't say as I'm seeing the MTUs getting perfect love on boatdiesel. I've found it necessary to search both the DD section and the MTU section for a more comprehensive vew.

Some of the more positive posts are often offset by negative or at best ambivalent posts. Mostly the negatives seem to be about the marinization parts, especially the aftercooler/charge air coolers (I think). Seems some have 'em and like 'em, but all that seems to countered by those who've had problems. Some posts have even outright suggested the D12/715s are a better option for the purpose.

As it's turning out, the one boat we've been considering that has MTUs... also has a three other issues (including asking price) that make us pause. I think the total of those four issues... maybe any single one of which we could live with... is probably going to mean we pass on that one.

I do very much appreciate everyone's input, though!

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Can't say as I'm seeing the MTUs getting perfect love on boatdiesel. I've found it necessary to search both the DD section and the MTU section for a more comprehensive vew.


-Chris
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You know as well as I that any section on BD wll scare you about any engine. It is the nature of the beast. People are on their because they have issues or problems.
 
Baker said:
You know as well as I that any section on BD wll scare you about any engine. It is the nature of the beast. People are on their because they have issues or problems.
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That's for sure. No one has ever made a perfect engine, and a lot of people have also misused and ill-maintained their engines.
 
Baker said:
You know as well as I that any section on BD wll scare you about any engine. It is the nature of the beast. People are on their because they have issues or problems.
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Heh... yeah, that's certainly a thing, too. Still, trying to use all the input from all the various resources available is I think the more prudent approach... even if my decision ends up being a bit on the timid side.

-Chris
 
While doing preliminary research on Series 60 engines, I've compiled the following list of potential concerns:

1. There have been problems with the aftercoolers with condensation or leaks.
2. High mounted aftercoolers have killed many an engine.
3. exhaust manifolds
4. The leakage of salt water into the air intake system causes problems with valves and cylinder kits.
5. heat exchaner problems
6. fuel pump problems
7. charge air cooler problems that took out both motors @2100hrs
8. Turbos - check if they have been rebuilt or replaced

Issues 1, 2 & 4 are solved by replaced aftercooler.

90% of this data I found on BD. If you need I can share the links.

While looking for my next boat, I'm faced with the same choice D12 vs MTU DD S60. I've decided that S60 is much better choice for my application, for number of reason, especially due to reputation and feedback I've gathered.
 
Alex
The list you made is common to failure modes for most larger marine diesels and speaks to maintenance or lack thereof. As Baker noted, BD is where only but a few owners go, those that are having problems or represent a repair facility.

After coolers and cooling systems represent a high percentage of the success or failure of marine engines. Going by the book will hopefully keep us off BD.
 
Thanks, Alex, I think I've found all those same BD threads... :)

-Chris
 
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