is there any risk to hang fenders off rails?

Hi all
Just thinking of stuff while i wait for the boat to be finished.
Was wondering if there is any risk to the rails if i hang a fender. On my boat there is one place where the salon is full width and i can see a need to hang a fender from up top. Any recommendations as to brand of hanger. Also should i be looking for some type of rack to store the fenders?

I have mine on the Taylor made adjusters. Mine all hang from the reasons and lifelines with no issues. For storage, I have holders on the bow rails.

Congrats on the new yacht!



I use Fend-Fix hangers on my 32mm rails like in the photo below. Have used them for years. Love 'em. easy to quickly adjust or remove. A drawback is that being plastic and exposed to sun, they can get brittle and will likely need to be replaced every 4-5 years.



They're pretty tough, but they would break away in any "severe situation" before damaging your rails. I've experienced this once and was glad that it broke away. I can think of other situations where you would rather not have a line holder that breaks. You need to weigh the convenience vs. risk and, in some specific mooring situations, may decide it's better to tie directly.


I think these are made in Scandinavia and are only available in Europe. Looking on Amazon.com, however, I see something similar:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NZCM6D...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


If you don't want to make the investment, the next best alternative, in my opinion, is a taught-line hitch. Can be adjusted in a flash, but takes more time if you want to move fenders around. See picture below, courtesy of 101knots.com.

I just took a look at a picture of a North Pacific/ NP-45 on the internet. I see what you mean. It's cabin off-center to the extreme. Bet the interior results are astounding, however!



Looking at the picture makes me agree that you will probably be doing most of your fender-management on that side from above. Whether you tie or use clips of some sort, I would give serious consideration to fender lines wearing on the paint (gelcoat?) of the edge of your salon roof. You might want to consider adding some sort of chrome "rub rail" to protect the finish.


Finally, if your travels take you through any locks, you would probably be wise to have at least one fender up high to protect the edge of the salon roof from the concrete lock walls. I have this issue with my boat, as the salon roof in the aft is as wide as the hull.

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently. Then you will never be at a loss looking for the adjusters or if the plastic breaks. Clove hitches are great since they can be adjusted without having to untie them. Besides then you will look cool when others watch you whip out a clove hitch without even thinking about it...

We’ve used Folbe for years with no UV degradation and if really really stressed they will Pop off. I always check to make sure the standing end goes over the top and hangs on the side of the rail opposite the fender. Highly recommended.

Quick Tenders | Boating & Fishing Accessories | Folbe

I have a picture to show the fender i may have to work from the top.

That's where we keep em 24/7
(ss forged eye bolts in hull.)

I have custom made fender holders.

Comodave said:

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently. Then you will never be at a loss looking for the adjusters or if the plastic breaks. Clove hitches are great since they can be adjusted without having to untie them. Besides then you will look cool when others watch you whip out a clove hitch without even thinking about it...

Click to expand...

Comodave nailed it. I haven't used fender holders of any kind for over 20 years. A simple clove hitch is the answer to what you are looking for.

Tilt,
Knots are free on my boat, but those are way-cool!
Given the crappy weather this week, I might build a couple of those!

I routinely employ five fenders to each side, employing clove hitches from the railings. Retrieved upon leaving the marina. With our wide decks and high gunwales, consider attachments semi-permanent with fenders placed on the decks while underway.

Another clove hitch afficianado here. By the way, the more common name for that "taut line hitch" is rolling hitch... a knot with many uses.

Rod,
I recommend using clove hitches or round turn and 2 half hitches to attach your fenders to the stanchions or posts at the base where they meet the deck. This reduces stress on the waterproof caulking. Sometimes in high winds or when larger waves come into a dock (say when a less than considerate boater sends a large wake) the boat can "rock and roll" even at dock. A fender can then be "pulled on" fairly hard adding stress to the attachment point to the boat. If tied off up high, like on the highest point (railing), this can put alot of force on the railing base (using a lever arm principle). To lessen this issue, tie off at the low point, where the railing meets the deck. It does require bending over , but reduces the possibility of damage, and knot tying is free. The round turn and 2 half hitches is easy peasy to tie. Just wrap the line around the stanchion base 2 times, and then tie 2 times around the line hanging down just like the first step to tying your shoes! Or learn the clove hitch and put a half hitch on that as well to secure the knot from accidentally releasing (it is possible , but not likely if you don't use the half hitch, called a "binder"). Anyway, reducing the "lever arm" will save your railings.
I learned this with my sailboat. Several times helpful people on the docks would grab the top of a stanchion (lifeline post) to stop the boat or pull it into position, putting extreme force on the deck to stanchion joint. Even had to rebed one as it developed a leak.
Some people buy "fender holders" that are used to store fenders on their rails when the fenders are not in use.

George,
Technically I think they are slightly different knots. The "taut line hitch" is actually a "rolling hitch" tied on itself (the standing part), whereas the rolling hitch would be tied around an object, and if pulled in the correct direction, will not slip even on a round object. For example a rolling hitch tied onto an anchor line can be used to attach a "snubber".

I know you knew this, but I added extra to explain for some of the others who may not have known.

magna 6882 said:

Hi all
Just thinking of stuff while i wait for the boat to be finished.
Was wondering if there is any risk to the rails if i hang a fender. On my boat there is one place where the salon is full width and i can see a need to hang a fender from up top. Any recommendations as to brand of hanger. Also should i be looking for some type of rack to store the fenders?

Click to expand...

Hey Magna,

I hang the middle fender from the top rail. 3 years no problems.

Cheers,

Not all my guest know how to tie a clove hitch but they all know how to work my fender holders. They always get the fenders to the correct height on the first try.

The holders also retain their height if you're somewhat careful with them, so no need to readjust when just going out for the day (provided you place the fenders in the holders in order so they go back in their original spots)

rslifkin said:

The holders also retain their height if you're somewhat careful with them, so no need to readjust when just going out for the day (provided you place the fenders in the holders in order so they go back in their original spots)

Click to expand...

Same can be said (and done) with tied on fender lines
I know many like their fender strap thingy's , but I just worry about the potential added torque on the base of the railings. See, I try to avoid work like rebedding.
In the case of the NP45, there would be only one, and maybe 2 fenders attached from the upper rail system, not a lot of knots.

What Tom said!

Comodave said:

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently. Then you will never be at a loss looking for the adjusters or if the plastic breaks. Clove hitches are great since they can be adjusted without having to untie them. Besides then you will look cool when others watch you whip out a clove hitch without even thinking about it...

Click to expand...

What Dave said! We hung ours that way from the fly bridge on our 39 for six years. Never a problem.

Rob

Comodave said:

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently. Then you will never be at a loss looking for the adjusters or if the plastic breaks. Clove hitches are great since they can be adjusted without having to untie them. Besides then you will look cool when others watch you whip out a clove hitch without even thinking about it...

Click to expand...

+1

Originally Posted by Comodave

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently. Then you will never be at a loss looking for the adjusters or if the plastic breaks. Clove hitches are great since they can be adjusted without having to untie them. Besides then you will look cool when others watch you whip out a clove hitch without even thinking about it...

Codger2 said:

+1

Click to expand...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ustration+of+the+'clove+hitch'+knot&FORM=IGRE

https://www.101knots.com/round-turn-and-two-half-hitches.html

Don't you just looove knots that do stuff..?

magna 6882 said:

Was wondering if there is any risk to the rails if i hang a fender. On my boat there is one place where the salon is full width and i can see a need to hang a fender from up top.

Any recommendations as to brand of hanger.

Also should i be looking for some type of rack to store the fenders?

Click to expand...

Comodave said:

As to hanging fenders just learn how to tie a clove hitch efficiently.

Click to expand...

GFC said:

Comodave nailed it. I haven't used fender holders of any kind for over 20 years. A simple clove hitch is the answer to what you are looking for.

Click to expand...

caltexflanc said:

Another clove hitch afficianado here.

Click to expand...

Theoretically, attaching a fender to the upper line of a bow rail can eventually cause the rail bases to open up. We try to attach fenders to cleats or to the rail bases when possible. But then ya gotta do what ya gotta do. In one area, with no bow rail, we have to hang fenders from a handhold rail along the side of the bridge.

We just use a Cow Hitch aka Lark's Head and some other names. Fast, easy, adjustable, looks OK...

We've found fender racks useful for some of ours, but then we also have a couple stored elsewhere, nearer the stern were we use those.

If you have (or can install) rod holders, you can sometimes use those for fender placement, too. There's a commercial product called a Nautical T, another one I forget the name of... if you can just fashion something out of PVC or wood or whatever.

-Chris

Agree with Tom, the taught line hitch is a rolling hitch tied to it’s own standing part. Personally, I find rolling hitches easier to tie than clove hitches to rail for fenders & much more reliable once you master it (relative to standing part: over, over, under/lock). They seem to work for so many applications except where u need a bowline. That said, my admiral really gets flustered adjusting any knots to the rails as we come in to different height docks. One of her favourite presents of all time were the custom leather line hangars with line captures & cam cleats I bought her. I upsized to thicker 1/2” line (Way more than needed but it is much easier to haul in with smaller weaker hand strength.) Horribly expensive but: Happy wife ....... ‘ nuff said.

A d hitch used to hang fenders may not be the best idea because fenders can get caught between boat and offending object resulting in alternate taut line and slack line loosening the hitch. Clove will do better there.

tiltrider1 said:

I have custom made fender holders.

Click to expand...

Best I have seen were the same basic style, but for preserving varnished rails, so had a fleece lining for the part that would rest on the varnish and leather to look nice. Too expensive for me though.

I tie a clove hitch at the base of the stanchion, so easy to tie, the weight of the fender locks the knot, easier to lift the fender when time to take it off. Makes me look like I might know something about boating.

I agree with Keith on both the fancy fender holders (some are beautiful but very, very pricey) and the location (knot too) of tying them off. Easy to adjust as well.

ScottC said:

Congrats on the new yacht!



I use Fend-Fix hangers on my 32mm rails like in the photo below. Have used them for years. Love 'em. easy to quickly adjust or remove. A drawback is that being plastic and exposed to sun, they can get brittle and will likely need to be replaced every 4-5 years.



They're pretty tough, but they would break away in any "severe situation" before damaging your rails. I've experienced this once and was glad that it broke away. I can think of other situations where you would rather not have a line holder that breaks. You need to weigh the convenience vs. risk and, in some specific mooring situations, may decide it's better to tie directly.


I think these are made in Scandinavia and are only available in Europe. Looking on Amazon.com, however, I see something similar:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NZCM6D...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


If you don't want to make the investment, the next best alternative, in my opinion, is a taught-line hitch. Can be adjusted in a flash, but takes more time if you want to move fenders around. See picture below, courtesy of 101knots.com.

Click to expand...

The Taut-line hitch or a form of Rolling Hitch (see Ashley). I don't think this is the "next-best" alternative, it is the best and most elegant way to hang fenders from vertical stanchions. No extra parts, no plastic parts, just good seamanship. This family of hitches is also useful to tie nylon rode to anchor chain to take the load off the windlass. Keeping it simple.

I've had problems with Clove Hitches loosening over time, especially on smaller diameter, smooth items such as railing (vs pilings). I agree with Caballero - I find a Rolling Hitch works much better takes no more than a fraction of a second longer to tie - three wraps instead of two. You can attach the fender anywhere, each fender is universal and can be hung on any part of the boat (vs semi-permanent hangers or cleats). I just don't know what problem is being solved by using something other than a hitch/knot. If I have crew aboard who cannot tie a knot, I go into single-hand mode: chances are they don't know how to place a fender anyway.

I'm with the majority here who are not fans of gizmos to replace a simple knot - including cleats. My Willard 36 is small. Except for a coffee grinder and EPIRB, I simply do not have space for single-purpose items

Peter