Power Steering on Bigger Trawlers

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O C Diver

O C Diver

Guru
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
12,867
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Slow Hand
Vessel Make
Cherubini Independence 45
Does your boat have power steering, and if so, how big is the boat?

Planning on doing preventative maintenance on my steering system (Hynautic) this summer, to include rebuilding the rudder cylinder and replacing, seals in the helm, and maybe replacing all the fluid. The system is 18+ years old.

Started thinking about the helm pump which is a major chore to steer with. I can turn it fine, but if the autopilot quit, it would be miserable to steer all day. It has the 950 PSI valves and I'm thinking about switching to the 500 PSI valves which would cut the effort in half. Easy enough to try for around $225. Just don't know if my 3' by 2' rudder will require the higher pressure valves.

Then I started thinking about the autopilot pump. I live on autopilot; it's 18 years old; has 4,000+ hours on it. At some point it will need new brushes and maybe more.

So I went to see my John Deere guy who is the local expert on hydraulics. Commercial grade helm, constant volume pump direct drive off my ZF transmission, solenoid block with flow dividers etc for the autopilot, and reservoir, is a little over 3 boat units. Add another one to cover hose fittings and the cylinder rebuild kit. I would do the install myself.

If you've ever driven a boat with commercial grade power steering, well it's really nice! If I were crossing oceans, I would have to rationalize reliability versus complexity. But I'm not; I'm a coastal cruiser. Hand steering the boat the way it is now for 100 miles across a Great lake would be miserable. If I had to do it in a following sea....

Anyway, curious what those with power steering think, and the rest of you. ;)

Ted
 
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I think it is wonderful. It made steering out big fat old Hatteras like driving a '68 Caddy with one finger. My preferred method of pilotage "inside" was to sit back in the helm seat and steer with the little dial on our old Robertson wired remote. I was so thankful for whichever PO set things up that way. Including the long cables on the remotes. Ann liked to manually steer using the big destroyer type wheels and our modified Hynautic system made that very easy as well. In almost seven years of ownership and a few thousand hours of running I never did one minute of maintenance.
 
O C Diver said:
Does your boat have power steering, and if so, how big is the boat?

Planning on doing preventative maintenance on my steering system (Hynautic) this summer, to include rebuilding the rudder cylinder and replacing, seals in the helm, and maybe replacing all the fluid. The system is 18+ years old.

Started thinking about the helm pump which is a major chore to steer with. I can turn it fine, but if the autopilot quit, it would be miserable to steer all day. It has the 950 PSI valves and I'm thinking about switching to the 500 PSI valves which would cut the effort in half. Easy enough to try for around $225. Just don't know if my 3' by 2' rudder will require the higher pressure valves.

Then I started thinking about the autopilot pump. I live on autopilot; it's 18 years old; has 4,000+ hours on it. At some point it will need new brushes and maybe more.

So I went to see my John Deere guy who is the local expert on hydraulics. Commercial grade helm, constant volume pump direct drive off my ZF transmission, solenoid block with flow dividers etc for the autopilot, and reservoir, is a little over 3 boat units. Add another one to cover hose fittings and the cylinder rebuild kit. I would do the install myself.

If you've ever driven a boat with commercial grade power steering, well it's really nice! If I were crossing oceans, I would have to rationalize reliability versus complexity. But I'm not; I'm a coastal cruiser. Hand steering the boat the way it is now for 100 miles across a Great lake would be miserable. If I had to do it in a following sea....

Anyway, curious what those with power steering think, and the rest of you. ;)

Ted
Click to expand...


Would you only (or primarily) steer via the AP control with this new setup? Or would there be some way for steering at the wheel to be power assisted by this new pump?


I can't tell if this is just a big upgrade to your AP steering pump, or if it's a full power steering system tied into the helm wheel (and AP too).


I don't have power steering, i.e. power assist when turning the helm wheel, and it's a bear to steer manually. But I almost never touch the wheel, instead steering almost 100% of the time via the, either in Auto or Nav modes, or using one of several full follow up steering controls at the various operator stations. I think this is what you are describing, with the addition of a higher grade pump. But no mention of follow up steering controls? Or is that built into the AP control panel?
 
twistedtree said:
Would you only (or primarily) steer via the AP control with this new setup? Or would there be some way for steering at the wheel to be power assisted by this new pump?


I can't tell if this is just a big upgrade to your AP steering pump, or if it's a full power steering system tied into the helm wheel (and AP too).


I don't have power steering, i.e. power assist when turning the helm wheel, and it's a bear to steer manually. But I almost never touch the wheel, instead steering almost 100% of the time via the, either in Auto or Nav modes, or using one of several full follow up steering controls at the various operator stations. I think this is what you are describing, with the addition of a higher grade pump. But no mention of follow up steering controls? Or is that built into the AP control panel?
Click to expand...

The new helm would have power steering. You could turn the destroyer wheel with one finger. I know you're old enough ;), the difference is like turning the steering wheel of a car without power steering and stationary, versus the same car with power steering.

For commercial boats that pull crab or lobster pots all day, this is almost an absolute must for all the steering they do.

I would still steer most of the time with the autopilot either in Nav, Auto, or use the remote to turn the rudder.

Ted
 
Ted,
Not sure this is helpful but will relay my experience.
Klee Wyck is 48 feet but only 55K# with a straight rudder and the helm is 'geared' low at seven turns lock to lock. A dream to hand steer with the wheel even with no power assist.
However, Libra is a different story completely. She is heavy with a fishtail rudder and 'geared' high at 4 turns lock to lock. Steering with the wheel (manual helm) is just miserable and exhausting.
What saves her is dual sourced hydraulics coupled to a an NFU lever completely independent of the AP In fact, if you engage this lever to steer it will automacially disengage the AP70.
The fluid power supply for this lever is (selected by a switch) either the hydraulic pump that is an auxiliary drive off the Mercedes main or a wall mount electric over hydraulic pump. This 'power steering' by lever is a dream to operate when in close quarters on not on auto or if dodging pots in Boundary Bay. Fast response and effortless.
I would recommend this system on a hard steering boat.
 
klee wyck said:
Ted,
Not sure this is helpful but will relay my experience.
Klee Wyck is 48 feet but only 55K# with a straight rudder and the helm is 'geared' low at seven turns lock to lock. A dream to hand steer with the wheel even with no power assist.
However, Libra is a different story completely. She is heavy with a fishtail rudder and 'geared' high at 4 turns lock to lock. Steering with the wheel (manual helm) is just miserable and exhausting.
What saves her is dual sourced hydraulics coupled to a an NFU lever completely independent of the AP In fact, if you engage this lever to steer it will automacially disengage the AP70.
The fluid power supply for this lever is (selected by a switch) either the hydraulic pump that is an auxiliary drive off the Mercedes main or a wall mount electric over hydraulic pump. This 'power steering' by lever is a dream to operate when in close quarters on not on auto or if dodging pots in Boundary Bay. Fast response and effortless.
I would recommend this system on a hard steering boat.
Click to expand...

The lever steering you describe is seen on some pot hauler boats at the work station. Great for large quick course changes, but my impression is that it's not as fine an adjustment when you only need to change the rudder angle by a degree or two.

My helm is 7 turns lock to lock. So in addition to it being hard because of the higher pressure valves, you also have to crank the wheel a lot if you were to use it for close in maneuvering.

Ted
 
There are a variety of power steering systems out there. I'll list a few, probably more out there:

Electric/hydraulic (teleflex), normal helm, normal AP pump, normal rudder cyl. This is what I used on my ride. Easy to install, but it is noisy when working the wheel.

Four port hydraulic (aka forklift steering). Hyd pump on engine or gear, constant supply of oil pressure to helm (which has four ports), one supply port, one return port, one port each for p/s. AP uses solenoid valves instead of a pump. Cat's meow, but will need to re-tune AP. Helm can often be noisy. Hissing hydraulic fluid. Will probably need an oil cooler. Lots of hyd lines to run, will need a tank.

Power steering at rudder cylinder: Std helm, but the power assist is built into the rudder cylinder. Pump on engine or gear, can also be stand-alone electric. AP I think still uses it's own pump.

The first system is pretty easy to install, but will not change the lock-to-lock turns. The latter two are pretty involved and I would expect pretty expensive. Probably can do it yourself with $3k in parts (maybe). But still pretty involved. Lots of work.

Oh, and changing the relief valves from 950 to 500psi will have no effect on steering effort at the wheel. It just changes the breaking pressure where system vents to reservoir on a hard turn of the wheel.
 
O C Diver said:
The lever steering you describe is seen on some pot hauler boats at the work station. Great for large quick course changes, but my impression is that it's not as fine an adjustment when you only need to change the rudder angle by a degree or two.

My helm is 7 turns lock to lock. So in addition to it being hard because of the higher pressure valves, you also have to crank the wheel a lot if you were to use it for close in maneuvering.

Ted
Click to expand...

You are correct that it takes some getting used to for feathering the rudder with a lever. I remember being so embarrassed at sea trial in the Netherlands with her, I could not for the life of me drive her straight using the lever and we were in the canal system with two way traffic. You get used to it some for sure, If I am in more open sea and not in AP navigation mode, I just do fine steering with the AP dial and not set to navigation mode, although for these fine adjustments the big wheel works fine as well. It is when you are in a seaway or close quarters that the wheel becomes decorative only
Did I ever say how much I love my AP70?
 
O C Diver said:
The new helm would have power steering. You could turn the destroyer wheel with one finger. I know you're old enough ;), the difference is like turning the steering wheel of a car without power steering and stationary, versus the same car with power steering.

For commercial boats that pull crab or lobster pots all day, this is almost an absolute must for all the steering they do.

I would still steer most of the time with the autopilot either in Nav, Auto, or use the remote to turn the rudder.

Ted
Click to expand...


Yes, that's the full deal. Very nice. A friend installed a Hypro power steering system that has a fly by wire helm plus hydraulic power pack back at the rudder. I stuck with the manual system simply because it's really just a backup for steering, with all maneuvering via the AP follow up lever. I think either approach accomplishes the same thing.
 
Ski in NC said:
There are a variety of power steering systems out there. I'll list a few, probably more out there:

Electric/hydraulic (teleflex), normal helm, normal AP pump, normal rudder cyl. This is what I used on my ride. Easy to install, but it is noisy when working the wheel.

Four port hydraulic (aka forklift steering). Hyd pump on engine or gear, constant supply of oil pressure to helm (which has four ports), one supply port, one return port, one port each for p/s. AP uses solenoid valves instead of a pump. Cat's meow, but will need to re-tune AP. Helm can often be noisy. Hissing hydraulic fluid. Will probably need an oil cooler. Lots of hyd lines to run, will need a tank.

Power steering at rudder cylinder: Std helm, but the power assist is built into the rudder cylinder. Pump on engine or gear, can also be stand-alone electric. AP I think still uses it's own pump.

The first system is pretty easy to install, but will not change the lock-to-lock turns. The latter two are pretty involved and I would expect pretty expensive. Probably can do it yourself with $3k in parts (maybe). But still pretty involved. Lots of work.

Oh, and changing the relief valves from 950 to 500psi will have no effect on steering effort at the wheel. It just changes the breaking pressure where system vents to reservoir on a hard turn of the wheel.
Click to expand...

On the Hynautic system, it was my understanding that the helm pulled oil from the reservoir and pushed it to either side of the cylinder depending on which way you turn the wheel. The oil coming out of the opposite end of the cylinder had to push the valve open to return to the reservoir. The effort to turn the wheel included developing enough pressure to push the return valve open.

The system I'm looking at is like the forklift style. The pump runs unloaded until you turn the wheel. Then pressure builds up. When you stop turning the pressure falls off. Same for the autopilot solenoids. The system has a 6 gallon reservoir but not an oil cooler.

From having used one, if the oil volume going through the system is too high, they can be noisy. If the system is only used for steering, they use a constant volume pump where the volume doesn't vary based on engine RPM.

Before I head down this road, I plan to go for a ride on one he has installed.

Ted
 
klee wyck said:
Did I ever say how much I love my AP70?
Click to expand...

I have the AP20 with an AP21 that I really like and is very dialed in. It's also 18 years old. I've been looking long and hard at either the AP48 or AP70. Really like the AP21 and jog lever I have now, but it's 18 years old.......

Ted
 
For the high steering effort, what size are the lines from your helm cylinder? If they're long and on the smaller side, that can contribute to higher steering effort.

Otherwise, manual hydraulic steering is pretty much a trade off between number of turns and amount of effort. Mine is good effort wise. The 5 turns lock to lock is great to hand steer for fine adjustments up on plane, but I wouldn't mind faster steering at low speeds. But that's just a reason for me to add an autopilot at some point, I think.
 
rslifkin said:
For the high steering effort, what size are the lines from your helm cylinder? If they're long and on the smaller side, that can contribute to higher steering effort.

Otherwise, manual hydraulic steering is pretty much a trade off between number of turns and amount of effort. Mine is good effort wise. The 5 turns lock to lock is great to hand steer for fine adjustments up on plane, but I wouldn't mind faster steering at low speeds. But that's just a reason for me to add an autopilot at some point, I think.
Click to expand...

Don't think it's line size. When you open the valves to purge the system, the helm pump turns with very little effort. My system is 7 turns lock to lock with the same amount of effort whether the boat is in the water or on land.

Ted
 
Hmm, that would make me question if there's excess drag in the rudder cylinder, rudder bearings / packing, etc. Unless the valve assembly truly is adding extra effort for no good reason.

Effort on mine is similar on land vs in the water when stopped or moving slowly, but effort does go up at higher speeds, especially as you get the rudders further from center. I'd expect that with you likely having a larger rudder, effort would start to increase without as much boat speed / prop wash.

Thinking about it, I know my steering lines are a bit smaller than ideal. A good way to check for hydraulic resistance like that is to turn the wheel slowly, then quickly and note the difference in effort. On my system, quick turns definitely come with an increase in effort.
 
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O C Diver said:
Does your boat have power steering, and if so, how big is the boat?

............

If I were crossing oceans, I would have to rationalize reliability versus complexity. But I'm not; I'm a coastal cruiser.
..............


Ted
Click to expand...


If I could afford it I would not hesitate!

I have decades of experience with commercial grade power steering. Heavy steel boats 57' and up. This included rough passages and crossing hazardous bars with confidence. In a properly designed and installed system there is no concern for reliability. The manual helm pump is always available and will work should you loose power to the power steering system. The weak point is the same as with any hydraulic system, hoses and seals on the ram(s). Regular inspection and maintenance will keep you out of trouble. Carry spares if you feel the need.

If $$ were no object I'd have it set up with

  • Simrad/Robertson style autopilot with wired remote. The kind with a knob that 1 click is 1 degree course change on autopilot. I'd steer through narrow canals and cuts that way.
  • Full follow up lever or wheel. The rudder angle goes to what you command. I was mostly running singles and I knew how much rudder I needed for a given maneuver. I'd set the FFU unit to that and could pay attention to everything else.
  • A jog stick. The rudder moves in the direction you move the stick, then returns to center when you let go. I didn't use it much, but a nice backup in the event the FFU unit got fussy or the autopilot quit. I still had simple power steering.
  • A "cut out" switch. At the core of most power steering systems is a dual solenoid valve. Should any component of the autopilot or jog stick send faulty signals, fail completely or any other problems the cut out kills the electrical signals and steer by hand.
Back to reliability. The last system I had installed is now 22 yrs old and still going strong without a single failure of the power steering system. On a work boat that is underway 100 + days per year. Autopilot electronics were the only problem and very infrequent at that.

One boat I worked on, brand new, would at times completely loose steering. Power, autopilot, jog stick, manual helm. All of it. Every time it was metal shavings in the solenoid valves. A simple fix, but never happened at a good time. The builder had been sloppy and let crud get in the reservoir. As with any hydraulic system cleanliness is critical to successful operation. This was not a power steering problem, the same sloppiness would have caused problems with the seals in the rams and helm pump of a manual system.
 
I have manual hydraulic steering on an 83' boat with twin rudders. But I also have an autopilot and pump. I use the autopilot as much as possible. Steering I use the jog levers to control the autopilot pump or a remote. I only touch the wheels for docking and then rarely.
 
I'm confused about what valves the OP is taking about changing. In a manual hydraulic steering system the only valves are the check valves which relieve pressure if the cylinder gets overloaded, they just bleed pressure from one side to the other. Changing them doesn't effect steering load. Maybe Hynautic is different.
The hard part in going to powered hydraulic steering, and the reason designed systems are expensive is variable rate, so turning fast or slow and something to turn the pump off or bleed pressure when the rudder comes to its stop. IMO you can't just rely on the check valves to bleed pressure if you've run the rudder against the stop and are still holding the jog lever over.
 
sean9c said:
The hard part in going to powered hydraulic steering, and the reason designed systems are expensive is variable rate, so turning fast or slow and something to turn the pump off or bleed pressure when the rudder comes to its stop. IMO you can't just rely on the check valves to bleed pressure if you've run the rudder against the stop and are still holding the jog lever over.
Click to expand...

Powered hydraulic systems and conventional manual hydraulic helms have pressure relief valves built into the system so that when the cylinder bottoms out, the additional fluid is bypassed to the reservoir. In the case of engine powered pumps, the over pressure valve is easily adjustable allowing the pressure to be reduced to only a modest amount more than the worst load case scenario. Ideally the cylinder is bottoming out, not the rudder.

The ideal setup allows for constant volume regardless of engine RPM. This is accomplished by the pump dumping excess fluid at higher RPMs back to the reservoir.

As for jog levers and any other system run through the autopilot computer, cylinder travel is set in the computer with the rudder feedback telling the computer when to stop flow to the steer cylinder.

Ted
 
Our Navy launch was converted from mechanical to HYD steering.

A set of rams handled the rudder , a pump about the size of a power steering unit was belted off the engine.

The wheel could have been a door knob , it simply ported L or R with little hand load. The AP was a Robinson so rudder position was visible as desired.

The AP used aircraft grade solenoid valves , no DC pump, took 1/2 amp to trigger valve .A 10 gallon tank supplied the ATF.

AS the pump was powerful it was also used to operate the hyd motor on a Lewmar capstan. Cooling for the windlass was simply letting the feed hose & return lay in the bilge water.


Would easily bring aboard the anchor at 800RPM idle after morning start.


KISS!
 
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jhall767 said:
Anybody use one of these jog joysticks?


https://www.simrad-yachting.com/sim...pilot-remote-controllers/js10-steering-lever/


Seems like an easy way to add power steering. Just another way to control the autopilot
Click to expand...

Yes, I have a similar system with my autopilot to give me power steering. The issue that I'm addressing is the backup if something fails in the autopilot system. My current helm is manageable in good conditions, but a following sea where you're cranking back and forth 10 degrees to keep the boat on course, would be a bear.

While the jog lever is good while docking, having the precision on changing rudder angle or autopilot course in 1 degree increments, makes the knob style or 1 degree buttons a better choice. For docking, I prefer a " Follow up " jog lever where the lever is the angle of the rudder. So by feel, you know the position of the rudder.

https://www.simrad-yachting.com/sim...rollers/fu80-simrad-follow-up-steering-lever/

My AP21 has both a knob where each click is one degree and the one degree push buttons. That's my control 99% of the time when sitting in the helm chair.

NEW-OLD-STOCK-Simrad-AP51-Handheld-Autopilot-Control.jpg

Ted
 
Generally I would suggest to just stick with whatever system the boat is equipped, especially if it has served a long, dependable life.

My 65 footer was 40 years old and had cable steering. I was leery at first, but it was fantastic. A hell of a lot less friction loss than hydraulic. 3 turns lock to lock and no issue at all to hand steer for days on end in rough conditions. The AP had an electric drive.

A 39 year old vessel I am considering now is very complicated with its systems and has powered hydraulic steering. My first instinct would be to remove it and replace with manual hydraulic. However after reading this thread and thinking through the subject, the boat has lived its life this long, crossed oceans, and served its owner well.

So now I figure just keep things the way they are, rebuilt all hydraulic motors, pumps, replace all seals, and just not rock the boat.
 
Did the Deere rep say anything about cooling the hydraulic fluid? Once you add a live pump to the system, you'll need a heat exchanger and raw water for cooling. Also, if you have a hydraulic line failure, and lose the fluid, you not only lose steering, but you must remove the pump from the gear, as it will seize without cooled hydraulic fluid for lubrication. It's a small pump, so not a huge job, but something all live (no clutch) PTO users must be aware of.

I encounter conventional power assisted hydraulic steering systems often, they work well, but they are complex. While it was once the only way to get power steering on a yacht, I no longer use this approach. A simpler system uses an electro-hydraulic pump and a fly by wire helm wheel(s). No hydraulic fluid leaves the steering area, and thus hose runs are very short. This is similar to the AP pump arrangement except you are steering with a wheel rather than a knob. The wheel's feel is almost indistinguishable from hydraulic, except less effort, it's fingertip steering. Available from a few manufacturers including Teleflex and Hypro. Not something you'd easily retrofit, but I thought it worth mentioning as a simpler alternative to PTO-driven power assisted steering.
 
Steve DAntonio said:
Did the Deere rep say anything about cooling the hydraulic fluid? Once you add a live pump to the system, you'll need a heat exchanger and raw water for cooling. Also, if you have a hydraulic line failure, and lose the fluid, you not only lose steering, but you must remove the pump from the gear, as it will seize without cooled hydraulic fluid for lubrication. It's a small pump, so not a huge job, but something all live (no clutch) PTO users must be aware of.

I encounter conventional power assisted hydraulic steering systems often, they work well, but they are complex. While it was once the only way to get power steering on a yacht, I no longer use this approach. A simpler system uses an electro-hydraulic pump and a fly by wire helm wheel(s). No hydraulic fluid leaves the steering area, and thus hose runs are very short. This is similar to the AP pump arrangement except you are steering with a wheel rather than a knob. The wheel's feel is almost indistinguishable from hydraulic, except less effort, it's fingertip steering. Available from a few manufacturers including Teleflex and Hypro. Not something you'd easily retrofit, but I thought it worth mentioning as a simpler alternative to PTO-driven power assisted steering.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

The Deere dealer says the pump runs at about 30 PSI as a result of going through the solenoid valve block system. Pressure only building when steering. He was adamant about running the pump loop in 1/2" hose to keep pressure low. He builds them for Bay Waterman with a 5 GPM pump and 5 gallon reservoir for those with separate or no other hydraulic systems. I have surfed for hours in a following sea with the autopilot constantly moving the rudder. No way I would consider building the system without a heat exchanger.

I came across Hypo before. I could be wrong, but there business seems focused on new boats with no dealers / distributors on the east coast. From the limited information on their website, the equipment seems to be proprietary components. For a critical system, lack of availability would be worrisome. With the more traditional system, the components span several industries and are available in probably every state.

I also looked at the Teleflex system but found their largest unit was too small for my steer cylinder.

The other option I'm considering is adding a second autopilot and pump that would share the same steer cylinder. That would give me power steering redundancy with 2 almost completely separate systems. It's truly a shame that a company like Simrad or Comnav doesn't offer an electric helm that ties to their autopilot like a jog lever.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
Hi Steve,

The Deere dealer says the pump runs at about 30 PSI as a result of going through the solenoid valve block system. Pressure only building when steering. He was adamant about running the pump loop in 1/2" hose to keep pressure low. He builds them for Bay Waterman with a 5 GPM pump and 5 gallon reservoir for those with separate or no other hydraulic systems. I have surfed for hours in a following sea with the autopilot constantly moving the rudder. No way I would consider building the system without a heat exchanger.

I came across Hypo before. I could be wrong, but there business seems focused on new boats with no dealers / distributors on the east coast. From the limited information on their website, the equipment seems to be proprietary components. For a critical system, lack of availability would be worrisome. With the more traditional system, the components span several industries and are available in probably every state.

I also looked at the Teleflex system but found their largest unit was too small for my steer cylinder.

The other option I'm considering is adding a second autopilot and pump that would share the same steer cylinder. That would give me power steering redundancy with 2 almost completely separate systems. It's truly a shame that a company like Simrad or Comnav doesn't offer an electric helm that ties to their autopilot like a jog lever.

Ted
Click to expand...

All good points and yes, Hypro is primarily a new build product, although I've done a handful of retrofits.

Many vessels use twin AP, identical, designed to use one at a time, with the other as a back up at the flip of a switch. Most Larger Nordhavns, 55 and above, have twin AP for redundancy purposes. Those vessels have no power steering per se, through 68 feet, so the operators steer with the AP and a jog lever 99% of the time.
 
Heavy steering can also be a product of the seals on the rudder shafts. I know a few boats have neoprene seals and they can expand. There are various theories why but some say it is fuel residue in Marina berths.

Like others have said our Robertson AP steered the boat easily and and quickly and we mainly used it but our Hynautic wheels would move freely at both helms if you gave them a spin. I think my redundancy option would be a second AP pump and that would be cheaper and less complex.
 
I just took my boat from Rockpkort TX to mobile AL without an autopilot, I have hynautic steering and it takes 8 turns lock to lock. The whole thing was pretty miserable, I believe it was 630 miles or so. My boat will not leave Mobile without both an autopilot with a follow up steeering lever and an ais transceiver. I have no problem driving at night by radar, gps, and spotlight so both of those I consider essential equipment for the future.
 
Jmarsh, what exactly do you think the reason is that things were so miserable?

I think it likely is because you are 8 turns lock to lock. I've hand steered 5 days straight with a crew of 2, but with cable steering and 3 turns LTL, it was really no issue.
 
FWIW, I do not have power steering (64' boat), but my wheels are large so not much effort is required. Even so, I use the AP controls (in manual mode -- jog levers one the wing stations and in the cockpit, conventional knobs at the other stations) to move the rudders.
 
In my experience the hunautic manual helms require greater effort than most. A good alternative for a manual helm is the teleflex capilano helm it requires less effort to turn and also has an adjustment knob that controls the total turns (volume) from stop to stop. And requires no pressure reservoir
 
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