ELVICA - DeFever's Trawler Prototype?

There is a 50', 1968 DeFever named ELVICA being touted as the DeFever trawler prototype, and being DeFever's personal Yacht. Any info on this vessel. It is for sale, and I am interested, but don't know about a 1968 wooden vessel, and if the claims are bona fide.

I can see where it could have been the prototype of the Defever 48, or at least shares some design characteristics. Pretty cool looking boat.

Yes it is a 52 year old wood boat. A DeFever for sure. If you've good marine wood working skills it could be a great hobby. I've been on a sister ship, well thought out layout and nicely maintained.

A wooden boat is a wooden boat. Doesn't matter if it was designed by DeFever, Chris Craft, or many fine others. It's still a wooden boat.

I'm not saying it is a bad thing, I'm just saying it is wood.

pete

I have always liked DeFever designs. I do not know anything about the boat in questions. I have seen the listing and that's a sexy boat for sure. If the pictures are current it looks well maintained. There is also a early 1970's in the San Juans (Washington State).

Defever Data

There is a Defever group site you might be able to check with they also keep track of every Defever in the states!

I looked this up EMILY B is a wooden 50-footer owned by DeFever Cruisers members, currently living aboard, and cruising the Pacific Coast. Latest sighting was in Peurto Vallarta, Mexico. Arthur DeFever owned, and cruised, her sister ship, hull#1.
Gregg

We co-sponsored a PNW DeFever Rendezvous a few years ago, and after dinner someone did a very thorough PowerPoint presentation on the history of Arthur DeFever and his boats. I don't recall the details of the first one, but if you want really good information about those boats try the DeFever Owners Association: https://www.defevercruisers.com/

An 8'4" draft is interesting in a 50 foot boat. Like Pete, I would be scared of the wood. I've owned one older wooden boat. I'm cured.

I've also put 45,000 nm on a 68' Steel hulled Defever. It was a terrific boat. Still is, but for someone else.

I am a member of the owners group. After he died the group produced a tribute, part biography part memories from the group from those who met him. I can't remember reading of a boat of that name, but will have another look later.

sunchaser said:

Yes it is a 52 year old wood boat. A DeFever for sure. If you've good marine wood working skills it could be a great hobby. I've been on a sister ship, well thought out layout and nicely maintained.

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Maintaining a wooden boat is not the hobby I am looking to pursue. Cruising a boot, wooden or otherwise, is what I am looking for. Obviously, maintenance is part of that, but not to the extent of being a hobby. Cruising is. I know for others, maintenance, repair and the like is. The reason I am looking at this boat, is that I read that a lot of the fiber DeFevers had core and delamination issues, but that the Japanese wood boards where much better built.

Any thoughts on that?

Open-d said:

The reason I am looking at this boat, is that I read that a lot of the fiber DeFevers had core and delamination issues, but that the Japanese wood boards where much better built. Any thoughts on that?

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Not sure what FRP DeFevers you're referencing. The solid glass hulls are extra thick but like any FRP boat the above waterline areas require normal care and attention to keep water intrusion at bay. Many a nice FRP boat was screwed up by a drill. A decent survey will alert you to any issues.

As suggested by others query the DF Cruisers group. I'm not part of that group as their focus is largely arranging pot lucks on the East Coast. Be aware though, a top notch FRP DF won't stay on the market too long.

Once you walk the docks for a few months things will come into focus. Nothing beats eyes on.

No thanks, no matter how nice it is it is still a wooden boat. Not for me.

I went through the tribute - if you can see previous boat names and find A/R DeFever as the name then she was certainly owned by Art and Ruth.

As the owner of a Defever 50 LRC built in 1970 in Japan, I can attest to the build quality of these boats. Just know that the differential in investment, FRP vs wood, upon purchase will be spent regardless in order to keep a wooden boat in good shape. A boathouse and good skills (or deep pockets) really help. That said, I wouldn’t discount wood if you’re prepared for the need for vigilant maintenance. If the border ever opens up again...would be happy to show off Killick. Age is unfortunately necessitating sale, although in the age of Covid this will take a while.

I maintained a 32 foot Wooden Chris Craft which I owned for about 7 years. One year without any maintenance and it turned into a piece of junk. It broke my heart, but it cured me of wooden boat love.

pete

Killick said:

As the owner of a Defever 50 LRC built in 1970 in Japan, I can attest to the build quality of these boats. Just know that the differential in investment, FRP vs wood, upon purchase will be spent regardless in order to keep a wooden boat in good shape. A boathouse and good skills (or deep pockets) really help. That said, I wouldn’t discount wood if you’re prepared for the need for vigilant maintenance. If the border ever opens up again...would be happy to show off Killick. Age is unfortunately necessitating sale, although in the age of Covid this will take a while.

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We had a DeFever 68 built in Kurihama, Japan at Oriental Boat Works. At the time, they were the ony yard we found in Asia that could do the compound curves in the hull. The boat was steel and stayed in the family for over 35 years. Lot of miles and memories gone by.

sunchaser said:

Yes it is a 52 year old wood boat. A DeFever for sure. If you've good marine wood working skills it could be a great hobby. I've been on a sister ship, well thought out layout and nicely maintained.

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sunchaser said:

Not sure what FRP DeFevers you're referencing. The solid glass hulls are extra thick but like any FRP boat the above waterline areas require normal care and attention to keep water intrusion at bay. Many a nice FRP boat was screwed up by a drill. A decent survey will alert you to any issues.

As suggested by others query the DF Cruisers group. I'm not part of that group as their focus is largely arranging pot lucks on the East Coast. Be aware though, a top notch FRP DF won't stay on the market too long.

Once you walk the docks for a few months things will come into focus. Nothing beats eyes on.

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It was a post on the Cruisers forum. The author spent a lifetime in building and repairing boats, and the issues weren't with the solid fiberglass hull, but with cored area and the stringers which in one case he mentioned were completely rotted out. This guy, who seemed credible, painted a rather bleak picture of DeFevers, EXCEPT, as he noted, the early Japanese wooden ones. He included pictures of delaminations etc., Perhaps part of the problem where the various shipyards that built them.

I am attempting to absorb as much info as I can from as many sources as I can, and all input is appreciated.

Is there any particular boatyard that stands out from the other as on that produced a superior product?

Amadeus said:

We had a DeFever 68 built in Kurihama, Japan at Oriental Boat Works. At the time, they were the ony yard we found in Asia that could do the compound curves in the hull. The boat was steel and stayed in the family for over 35 years. Lot of miles and memories gone by.

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How much time and effort is involved in rust-fighting and prevention measures.

To be honest, I am looking for the most trouble-free, reliable vessel I can. Think of a "project" boat. I am looking for the exact opposite.

Open-d said:

It was a post on the Cruisers forum. The author spent a lifetime in building and repairing boats, and the issues weren't with the solid fiberglass hull, but with cored area and the stringers which in one case he mentioned were completely rotted out. This guy, who seemed credible, painted a rather bleak picture of DeFevers, EXCEPT, as he noted, the early Japanese wooden ones. He included pictures of delaminations etc., Perhaps part of the problem where the various shipyards that built them.

I am attempting to absorb as much info as I can from as many sources as I can, and all input is appreciated.

Is there any particular boatyard that stands out from the other as on that produced a superior product?

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Please don’t take offense, but this is how “I heard it on the internet” got a bad name. DeFevers were built to a price point but that certainly doesn’t translate to shoddy workmanship by any of the major yards and certainly not to chronic problems with delamination.

As Sunchaser mentioned, hulls are solid glass. Decks are cored and teak veneer was widely used as an overlay until the late 80s. If not maintained, water can find it’s way into the coring but the same can be said of any boats built during that period, including Grand Banks. Boats that are well-maintained do just fine.

There are hundreds of FRP DeFevers from the 80s to the present-day in use and a very active owners’ assn. I think it’s been suggested already, but give DeFever Cruisers a try for knowledgeable answer about these boats.

angus99 said:

Please don’t take offense, but this is how “I heard it on the internet” got a bad name. DeFevers were built to a price point but that certainly doesn’t translate to shoddy workmanship by any of the major yards and certainly not to chronic problems with delamination.

As Sunchaser mentioned, hulls are solid glass. Decks are cored and teak veneer was widely used as an overlay until the late 80s. If not maintained, water can find it’s way into the coring but the same can be said of any boats built during that period, including Grand Banks. Boats that are well-maintained do just fine.

There are hundreds of FRP DeFevers from the 80s to the present-day in use and a very active owners’ assn. I think it’s been suggested already, but give DeFever Cruisers a try for knowledgeable answer about these boats.

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I am not offended, I always take things in context and accept, just like your post, that it is just one "man's" opinion, but valuable in its own right. By reading as much as I can, by asking semi-probing questions, I hope to glean as much info as I can, from as many, and as diverse of sources as I can. It is a process, and I thank all who contribute.

Do you have any opinion of which boatyard may have been better than the rest, and any to avoid in the DeFever spectrum?

Open-d said:

How much time and effort is involved in rust-fighting and prevention measures.

To be honest, I am looking for the most trouble-free, reliable vessel I can. Think of a "project" boat. I am looking for the exact opposite.

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The 68' Defever was built in 1970 and we sold it in about 2005. My parents, both marine engineers, lived aboard for 35 years. The boat was basically trouble free but it was very well maintained, which is the secret to long life in any vessel.

Steel vessels usually corrode from the inside out. Salt water collects on the tank tops or other areas and rust starts to form at the intersection of the tanks and hull. Again, maintenance is the key. With the great barrier coating available to yards today you can expect a very long service life. Having said that, I don't think there are many Defevers with steel hulls. I am a big steel fan and own a 55' Diesel Duck in steel.

Open-d said:

I am not offended, I always take things in context and accept, just like your post, that it is just one "man's" opinion, but valuable in its own right. By reading as much as I can, by asking semi-probing questions, I hope to glean as much info as I can, from as many, and as diverse of sources as I can. It is a process, and I thank all who contribute.

Do you have any opinion of which boatyard may have been better than the rest, and any to avoid in the DeFever spectrum?

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I found the thread from Cruisers Forum that you might have seen and the photos of horrors the were purported to be found on DeFevers. All I can tell you is problems like those rarely seem to be reported by actual owners.

Different models were built at different yards over the decades. Here’s a brief history:

https://www.defevercruisers.com/defever_history.asp

None of the yards are regarded as problem-prone to my knowledge. But a thorough survey is far more indicative of quality than where one was built.

angus99 said:

I found the thread from Cruisers Forum that you might have seen and the photos of horrors the were purported to be found on DeFevers. All I can tell you is problems like those rarely seem to be reported by actual owners.

Different models were built at different yards over the decades. Here’s a brief history:

https://www.defevercruisers.com/defever_history.asp

None of the yards are regarded as problem-prone to my knowledge. But a thorough survey is far more indicative of quality than where one was built.

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There is a DF inTahiti, 2009 E45 with an "improved semi-displacent hull". Is that type of hull to be avoided for passagemaking and offshore cruising? Built at POCTA.
44 k lbs.

Open-d said:

There is a DF inTahiti, 2009 E45 with an "improved semi-displacent hull". Is that type of hull to be avoided for passagemaking and offshore cruising? Built at POCTA.
44 k lbs.

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I don’t know much about the 45’s hull, although it looks like a more pronounced V at the stern than a 44’s. Maybe you could ask the broker how it got to Tahiti?

angus99 said:

I don’t know much about the 45’s hull, although it looks like a more pronounced V at the stern than a 44’s. Maybe you could ask the broker how it got to Tahiti?

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I might, but I never seem to get a reply to my inquiries. In any case, did you get a load of the struts and keel structure? Seems well-overbuilt (in a good way).

Let me weigh in here with my 2 cents. I have owned wooden boats most recently a 42 foot ketch berthed in San Diego. Japanese built mahogany over oak, copper riveted. I owned her 14 years. The wood hull was not a problem. No leaks, no seeps no nothing. I painted the hull once. The upkeep was systems (electrical, plumbing, sails, winter cover, etc.) and brightwork. I would have no hesitation in purchasing a well maintained wooden boat and this one looks excellent.
That said, as ComoDave points out, neglect it for a year and you will have termite food. The key to owning a wooden boat is constant inspection and maintenance. You can't buff out rot.
So, if you are willing to take on a piece of history and be its steward go for it. If you want to "ride it hard and put it away wet", find a Clorox bottle.

"It was a post on the Cruisers forum. The author spent a lifetime in building and repairing boats, and the issues weren't with the solid fiberglass hull, but with cored area and the stringers which in one case he mentioned were completely rotted out. This guy, who seemed credible, painted a rather bleak picture of DeFevers, EXCEPT, as he noted, the early Japanese wooden ones. He included pictures of delaminations etc., Perhaps part of the problem where the various shipyards that built them. I am attempting to absorb as much info as I can from as many sources as I can, and all input is appreciated."

The fallacy of the argument lies in the assumption that because some FRP DeFevers have issues with core rot in the upper decks or stringers that these boats were not built as well in the first place. Wooden boats are acknowledged to require constant maintenance. FRP boats were initially assumed not to (hence their popularity and why they largely replaced wood). As another poster mentioned, many a good boat has been ruined by a drill. The reality is that most modern FRP boats have coring with end grain balsa, plywood, or more modern foam composites in the upper structures and often stringers to provide a reasonable weight/strength ratio. Most of these boats have all fittings screwed/bolted through the deck/stringers etc and with a few (high end) exceptions, The manufacturer did not replace the core with impervious or solid FRP at those penetrations. Instead they seal or caulk the fittings and hardware. With time these all begin to leak and very few boat owners preventively rebed all deck fittings and hardware as is now recommended. (In all fairness, in the beginning, we didn't understand how important this would prove to be going forward, though it is obvious now). From my experience looking for a used trawler, DeFevers are no worse when it comes to wet/rotten cores that any other major brand including Grand Banks, Solo/Selene, Kadey Krogen, even Nordhavn's if neglected. The maintenance (or lack thereof) will tend to trump even the best boat builders.
Since your stated purpose is cruising rather maintenance as a full time hobby, it would be best for you to avoid wooden boats of all varieties as well as any FRP project boats. Find a reputable FRP used boat (preferably owned by an "anal" engineer or equivalent) which has a written record proving regular, exceptional maintenance of all systems, and can pass a detailed survey. You might pay a slight premium up front - especially if the cosmetics are tip top shape, but definitely worth it for you imo

I'd like to learn more about your family's boat

Amadeus said:

The 68' Defever was built in 1970 and we sold it in about 2005. My parents, both marine engineers, lived aboard for 35 years. The boat was basically trouble free but it was very well maintained, which is the secret to long life in any vessel.

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Bruce - I've been researching histories of DF boats and would love to learn more about your family's 1970, 65' steel boat. Please contact me directly if you're willing to share: peggysigler at gmail dot com Thanks!

Elvica and Arthur DeFever

Open-d said:

There is a 50', 1968 DeFever named ELVICA being touted as the DeFever trawler prototype, and being DeFever's personal Yacht. Any info on this vessel. It is for sale, and I am interested, but don't know about a 1968 wooden vessel, and if the claims are bona fide.

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Arthur DeFever was a naval architect who designed boats that were built by many yards in California, Mexico and Asia of wood, steel, aluminum and fiberglass. He designed fishing boats before WWII and, in 1959, his first "offshore cruiser" based on ocean-going work boats.

ELVICA was hull #1 (after the lofting hull) of DF68-50, Arthur DeFever's 1968 commissioned line of 26 hulls - tri-cabin, trunk deck, "offshore cruisers" built at Oriental Boat Company in Japan. It was one of DeFever's many personal boats over the years. We have a sistership from this production line, as are Killick and Emily B; most of them are known to be still afloat on the US/BC/MX west coasts, and mostly in good shape. ELVICA has received exceptional care, has spent most of her 52 years in Santa Barbara, and is under a full canvas cover.


The early DeFevers were custom designed and built, many at Lindwall Boatworks. In 1966, American Marine (later Grand Banks) began building 26 hulls of the DF66-46, a "Grand Alaskan" raised pilot house model. Meanwhile, in addition to the DF69-50, DeFevers built at Oriental Boat Company were 26 hulls of the DF69-52, an Alaskan raised pilot house, and 26 hulls of DF70-38, a two-cabin, trunk deck offshore cruiser. By 1972, production of almost all DeFevers had transitioned to fiberglass.


DeFevers have stood the test of time and proven that they are well designed, comfortable, and seaworthy.Any boat's condition is dependent upon the care and maintenance it receives year after year.Arthur DeFever's first custom designs and the four wooden production lines could be considered the prototypes of the recreational cruisers that evolved into the trawlers we know today.

Pete Meisinger said:

I maintained a 32 foot Wooden Chris Craft which I owned for about 7 years. One year without any maintenance and it turned into a piece of junk. It broke my heart, but it cured me of wooden boat love.

pete

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Pete,

I too had a 50 year old + CC Constellation Convertible a '57 that was a 35 footer. Like most CC's had a double 3/4" hull below the waterline and single above. Frames basically 1" - 1.25" thick. The bi-directional planking made plank replacement below waterline problematic.

Conversely I also had a 67 Grand Banks 42 Classic built for Robert & Mildred Newton, the founders of American Marine Ltd. which became Grand Banks. Its 2" think, deep heart Mahoghany planking over 2.5-3" Yacal (like Ironwood or Cocabola) is a whole other entity. About as comparable to the Chris Craft as an A1-Abrahms Tank is comparable to a 1960's VW Beetle. Vast differences in strength and repairable design.

I almost bout Michael Caine's DeFever 50 that was built in the Oriental Boat Co. in Japan. I now live without a "woodie" in San Carlos, 10 miles from where Arthur had built some steel trawlers in Guaymas. https://northstaryachtsales.com/blog/defever-history/

Gotta say, nothing rides quite like one of these super trawlers, like the Romsdahl, Malahides, DeFevers and GB Alaskans. I have been on PAE vessels, both Mason 53's and Nordies of many sizes and as thick and heavily built as they are, the old woodies with 2.5 to 4 inch thich planked hulls seemed more insulated and natural at sea. It is for a young or very energetic and skilled owner to keep up the maintenance. More frequent intervals for sure.